What Can IUBB do to Revive Your Excitement/Confidence?

[lillurk 3,690]

7 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Just win.

I’d agree with this. Obviously it’s not quite this simple but in my opinion IU should almost always be a top ~7 tourney seed, of course often shading higher and acknowledging that even the best programs have down years in a success cycle occasionally. The down years are easier to endure if you’re otherwise consistently winning.

Once in the tournament, IU should regularly make the second weekend and threaten to go deeper, achieving it sometimes, of course. The nature of tournaments means even the best years (‘12, ‘13) sometimes fall short of their potential, and other teams (‘16) roughly meet it but could luck into more with a favorable path.

At a place like IU this is imminently reasonable, even quickly after a coaching change. Sampson didn’t have tons beyond DJ White and some serviceable B1G caliber guys, he made the tourney both years (and had a great team in y2). Crean inherited nothing and had the aforementioned ‘12 and ‘13 teams in years 4 and 5. Archie inherited a few B1G caliber pieces — less than Sampson but way, way more than Crean — and hasn’t met my outlined expectations above.

It’s of course still possible he meets them this year, and if that sets a new level for his version of the program, the slow growth will be easier to forgive. But:

1. There’s no inherent reason the growth had to be this slow. See above, see Illinois or OSU or heck, Rutgers. Those who point to other pack line teams may have a point about the defense’s timeline to elite status, but I’m skeptical it has to be that way.

2. in year 4 at IU your offense should be better. Better guard play, better shooting, better depth, better overall results. Even if you’re “defense first,” you can or should outsource to an assistant or tweak.

3. The roster is absolutely his responsibility, good and bad. He didn’t offer Eric Hunter. He slow-played Aaron Henry to wait on Damezi. He’s mostly sat out the transfer market even with glaring holes. I know some here like carrying an empty scholarship, but wouldn’t it be nice to have an extra big or a better, experienced guard in that grant right now? And as mentioned elsewhere, while Lander and Stewart early plus Duncomb is an okay if unorthodox 2021 class of sorts, the recruiting has mostly whiffed in 2021 and has nothing beyond that. His teams have consistently been a guy short and/or one injury from disaster 

Without significant growth, that gives me concern about next year’s team even if this year ends up better than last night. Two terrible performances in eight is bad.

In my opinion, there are substantial problems I’ve outlined here that concern me about the big picture of the Miller program as well as the snapshot today, Christmas Eve 2020. I want IU to win consistently and I have some concerns that he’s the guy to make that happen, as I’ve had since the day he started. If he can get the program there of course I’ll be pleased, but I think the reasons here are a stronger argument than the hope, faith, and eternal patience of the folks who think we’re fine still.

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

Just not much if anything to really defend Archie on. We are predictable and for whatever reason havent had the expected success. You get the feeling he needs to do something completely out of character for any of his teams at IU to keep his job.

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

Will also add there is a whole new level of financial pressure on college athletics in this world we live in. What happened in the past in terms of coaching changes may not be what happens moving forward. I think the writing is on the wall in huge crimson letters.

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

Winning will help but honestly the world has changed. Habits have changed. I come here when Im bored but Im really not invested in IU basketball or any sports like I used to be.

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

9 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Winning will help but honestly the world has changed. Habits have changed. I come here when Im bored but Im really not invested in IU basketball or any sports like I used to be.

I almost just feel like my fandom is just momentum.  I usually watch while getting laundry or dishes done now.  
 

If I had no other tasks to get done I am not certain I would watch and instead I imagine I would choose to read or play video games.  
 

I have watched bad basketball for 13 years.  I have precious little time and if the players aren’t trying it’s just hard to justify using it on these teams 

[Feathery 3,984]

I still watch all the games but to have me excited we need to have a brand of basketball that is fun to watch and can win at the highest level. We went from a coach who had a great offense and no defense to a coach that coaches defense at a high level but sucks at offense.

to get me excited about IU basketball again, I need the university to want to be the best. Be willing to pay top dollar to get a top coach. Archie isn’t even a top 10 paid coach. That tells me IU isn’t willing to pay top dollar. Until they are I can’t get overly excited because they will ultimately stay in the same boat we have been in for the last 20 years. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,912]

Lmao and now Tim Priller is calling fans clowns for having expectations. He’s been going back and forth with people since last night. We’ve made 4 NCAA tournaments in the past 12 seasons. At some point the team is going to have to show us something on the court if they want our support. No other ‘blue blood’ would be ok with results like ours.

 

[Hoosier Guy 7,472]

I expect IU to get back to elite status. I’m not changing my expectations just because of inferior coaches. I’ll be satisfied when a great coach comes around and returns IU to the elite

[Hoosier Guy 7,472]

25 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Lmao and now Tim Priller is calling fans clowns for having expectations. He’s been going back and forth with people since last night. We’ve made 4 NCAA tournaments in the past 12 seasons. At some point the team is going to have to show us something on the court if they want our support. No other ‘blue blood’ would be ok with results like ours.

 

Pot calling the kettle black. Priller doesn’t know basketball worth crap

[TheWatShot 13,335]

27 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Lmao and now Tim Priller is calling fans clowns for having expectations. He’s been going back and forth with people since last night. We’ve made 4 NCAA tournaments in the past 12 seasons. At some point the team is going to have to show us something on the court if they want our support. No other ‘blue blood’ would be ok with results like ours.

 

That is so rich coming from someone who ranked behind more than 400 players in his class. 

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

28 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Lmao and now Tim Priller is calling fans clowns for having expectations. He’s been going back and forth with people since last night. We’ve made 4 NCAA tournaments in the past 12 seasons. At some point the team is going to have to show us something on the court if they want our support. No other ‘blue blood’ would be ok with results like ours.

 

He barely played basketball too. People in glass houses 

[Golfman25 4,756]

2 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

If Archie was being honest with himself, he’d have to admit he’s not living up to the expectations of his hiring. I’m certain he is aware of this. I like his competitive spirit and I thought that alone might be enough to burst through, but each year as our team stagnates I lose hope. At what point does Archie lose confidence? Has that already happened?

You can feel it amongst the fanbase, can’t be easy for Archie. He needs a Hail Mary. I just don’t know what he can do. He doesn’t have the horses. He hasn’t recruited the horses. It’s a failing proposition.


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Archie's problem is Archie.  He is completely stuck in his defensive "pack line" mindset which he had success with at the mid major level.  He has completely failed to adapt to the reality of the level he is at now.  He won't change.  And for that reason, he should be fired.  Adapt or die, gentlemen.  

The formula for success is simple:

1) dominate in state recruiting -- be in the mix for the top players from the state.  These are the kids in your backyard that you can watch grow up as they move thru high school.  Once the best in state players have IU in their sights, you can focus on the out of state players who can make a difference.  

2) Be in contention for a Big 10 championship each year.  A top 5 big ten team will always make the tourney.  

3) Win the first weekend of the tourney -- get to the sweet 16 repeatedly.  It's then a numbers game.  If your in the second weekend every year, you'll eventually break thru to the 8 and the 4.  If you only make the tourney every few years, too many things need to go right for you to get to the finals.  

The thing is the devil is obviously in the details.  But those details will change over time.  Thus, the coach needs to adapt.  Otherwise, you have what we have.  Almost 2 decades of hit or miss.  

[Golfman25 4,756]

Just now, TheWatShot said:

That is so rich coming from someone who ranked behind more than 400 players in his class. 

Kinda of disappointing seeing that the fans really supported MSB.  

[Golfman25 4,756]

14 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Hire a coach who loves the program like Tom Allen loves his program. Someone who hates seeing how mediocre IU basketball has become and will be awake at 3 in the morning drawing up ways to change it. 

 

I have no idea who that is, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be a former player or alum. Just someone who isn't going to act so damn helpless all the time. 

Just clone that sob.  

[Golfman25 4,756]

14 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Truth. I hated Creans defense. Absolutely hated it. But I sadly have to admit, I liked watching his teams much more than what Archie puts out there. Neither guy is good enough for what I want.

Maybe we should get Scott Drew and let him cheat his pants off. We’d be top 10 in no time..


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Can we get Crean and Archie to mate and have a kid?  Then we may have a balanced team.  :)  

[Hoosierfan2017 19,912]

3 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

That is so rich coming from someone who ranked behind more than 400 players in his class. 

I felt a little bad because some of the people were saying that in response to him, but honestly he should expect blowback like that when he decides to trash fans. The fanbase was always nice to Priller even though he was a total waste of a scholarship for 4 years.

Players shouldn’t expect fans to be happy with them when they go out and play like they don’t care for an entire half like they did last night. Even worse when that’s been a consistent theme for 4 years now. IU fans supported terrible teams for Crean’s first three years because they went out and played hard every night. But don’t expect us to be cheery when you play like you don’t care.

[Golfman25 4,756]

14 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Probably, but if he wanted to come here I’d be happy to have him. Even if he was only here 5-6 years before retiring I think the job would be a lot more attractive than it is now. 
 

Our biggest impediment right now is our administration. If they hired someone and let him do typical NCAA things, we could be top 10 in a few years. Will Wade is nothing special and look at what he’s done at LSU. IU prefers a mediocre team coached by someone who does things “the right way” and we’re seeing the results of that.

Explain Tom Allen please.  

[Hoosierfan2017 19,912]

3 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Explain Tom Allen please.  

Culture and player development. Archie isn’t great at either of those. Allen is. 

[triple 408]

I was too patient with Davis, and fairly patient with Crean.  Perhaps because of that I'm not patient enough with Archie, but to me the writing is wall.  We have individual players who display passion, but a team and indeed a program that fails to convey a sense of urgency.    

[Golfman25 4,756]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Culture and player development. Archie isn’t great at either of those. Allen is. 

None of that is the administration.  He just proves it can be done with the current admin.