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What Can IUBB do to Revive Your Excitement/Confidence?

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7 hours ago, Jeff_Boy_Ardee said:

Just a hypothetical question to see others thoughts. I call on the coal mines in Kentucky so deal with a lot of UK fans, who are growing tired of Cals methods and this year is not setting well with them. We know UK fans turn just as fast as we do. Hypothetically, if Cal were to be available in the next year or so, how many of you would jump on the hire Cal wagon. Personal feelings aside, he has the success and tourney runs most have been asking for.


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Absolutely. Why not? What's it going to hurt?

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1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


UK is willing to pay for success. Indiana hopes to find and cultivate success. One works more frequently than the other.


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UK is also willing to pay for players.

UK is also willing to have an entire decade of players without a degree from UK.

Pass

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1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

UK is also willing to pay for players.

UK is also willing to have an entire decade of players without a degree from UK.

Pass

Between the two, I’d rather do it UK’s way. We’ve made the tournament 4 times since 2008. We’ve won two conference titles since 2002. Im 26 years old and we’ve made an elite eight once in my lifetime. Whatever we’ve been doing for the better part of the last two decades isn’t working, and I’m tired of not being good. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

If UK makes a hire that doesn’t make them elite he will be gone after year 3.  Because they demand success. We hope for it 

This.  Those fans would've run the coach out of the state by this point.

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37 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Between the two, I’d rather do it UK’s way. We’ve made the tournament 4 times since 2008. We’ve won two conference titles since 2002. Im 26 years old and we’ve made an elite eight once in my lifetime. Whatever we’ve been doing for the better part of the last two decades isn’t working, and I’m tired of not being good. 

It's not like the NCAA actually cares.  Deny deny deny, don't self report and self punish.  Taking a moral high ground gets you nowhere when the powers that be don't care if their rules are broken.

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49 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

It's not like the NCAA actually cares.  Deny deny deny, don't self report and self punish.  Taking a moral high ground gets you nowhere when the powers that be don't care if their rules are broken.

Exactly. Is it even really breaking the rules when the NCAA is fully aware it’s happening and doesn’t do a thing about it? In an ideal world we could do things the right way and have a lot of success. But these programs cheat their tails off and consistently reap the benefits of it. Meanwhile we’re stuck in mediocrity. 

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Is it possible that we do bend rules just like everyone else does, but recruits simply don't find us as appealing as we want them to? 

 

We have bland uniforms with no names on the back, we play in an outdated facility, and we have fans that start complaining about how awful we are after an opponent gets the opening tip. We don't make the tournament very often anymore and we're rarely playing meaningful games in late February/early March. 

 

I don't think we're going as far as handing blank checks to recruits with promises to fulfill their NBA dreams, but I doubt we're doing everything 100% by the book, either. 

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I agree that some top recruits find Indiana basketball unappealing. But it doesn't have anything to do with the uniforms or the facility or the fans (all most recruits know about the fans is the crazy atmosphere during home games). The problem is with performance on the court. IU has had decent but not especially good (or exciting) teams under Archie Miller even with home grown stars like Romeo Langford and Trayce Jackson Davis.  It has been almost a decade since IU was a top ten team.  Michigan State, Ohio State, and even Illinois now seem like better destinations for top 30 players. The answer isn't putting names on the uniform or spending hundreds of millions on a new facility. The answer is to start winning more.

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7 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Is it possible that we do bend rules just like everyone else does, but recruits simply don't find us as appealing as we want them to? 

 

We have bland uniforms with no names on the back, we play in an outdated facility, and we have fans that start complaining about how awful we are after an opponent gets the opening tip. We don't make the tournament very often anymore and we're rarely playing meaningful games in late February/early March. 

 

I don't think we're going as far as handing blank checks to recruits with promises to fulfill their NBA dreams, but I doubt we're doing everything 100% by the book, either. 

I definitely wouldn't mind some new jerseys. "Tradition" is the dumbest excuse when we haven't done anything in 25 years. 

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I agree that some top recruits find Indiana basketball unappealing. But it doesn't have anything to do with the uniforms or the facility or the fans (all most recruits know about the fans is the crazy atmosphere during home games). The problem is with performance on the court. IU has had decent but not especially good (or exciting) teams under Archie Miller even with home grown stars like Romeo Langford and Trayce Jackson Davis.  It has been almost a decade since IU was a top ten team.  Michigan State, Ohio State, and even Illinois now seem like better destinations for top 30 players. The answer isn't putting names on the uniform or spending hundreds of millions on a new facility. The answer is to start winning more.


Agreed! Miller’s system he has in place is difficult to learn and geared towards specific types of players. I think we have seen these two be real big issues so far, but it’s gotten better. With the performance on the court lacking in a lot of wins, we’ve seen recruiting take a dip in ‘21 (to some degree) and slow going for ‘22.

I do think things are trending up, but been slower than we all want with some inexcusable performances and results! I encourage everyone to reserve excessive judgement until the end of this season. I could definitely be wrong, but the writing IS NOT all over the wall just yet!


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Some decent points made from both sides of the fence in this thread so far. Most of you know that I’m an Archie guy, I think he’s miles better than CTC in terms of “coaching”. 
 

One of my biggest issues with this topic is the lack of names people suggest would come to IU now and make us better within 3 years. We’d have to hire someone young, similar to Archie. Is there a young coach out there right now that can have greater success in 3 years than Archie currently? I don’t think so. 
 

We made the tourney last year, CAM is showing signs of switching up his coaching philosophy, we’ve locked down the state of Indiana for the most part. 
 

The only thing people can really complain about is our lack of shooting. I get it, we were spoiled by CTC’s team and our offense. But the fact is, this fan base has been spoiled for years. We expect NCAA championships which I fully agree with. But what most fans can’t understand is that basketball has changed dramatically since we last won. Landing the top recruits and best shooters won’t automatically bring us a championship, ask Kentucky about that. 
 

Until there is a proven head coach that is willing to walk into Cook Hall, we must accept Archie. Anyone other than Archie in college basketball at his age range would just be a lateral move. 

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3 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Some decent points made from both sides of the fence in this thread so far. Most of you know that I’m an Archie guy, I think he’s miles better than CTC in terms of “coaching”. 
 

One of my biggest issues with this topic is the lack of names people suggest would come to IU now and make us better within 3 years. We’d have to hire someone young, similar to Archie. Is there a young coach out there right now that can have greater success in 3 years than Archie currently? I don’t think so. 
 

We made the tourney last year, CAM is showing signs of switching up his coaching philosophy, we’ve locked down the state of Indiana for the most part. 
 

The only thing people can really complain about is our lack of shooting. I get it, we were spoiled by CTC’s team and our offense. But the fact is, this fan base has been spoiled for years. We expect NCAA championships which I fully agree with. But what most fans can’t understand is that basketball has changed dramatically since we last won. Landing the top recruits and best shooters won’t automatically bring us a championship, ask Kentucky about that. 
 

Until there is a proven head coach that is willing to walk into Cook Hall, we must accept Archie. Anyone other than Archie in college basketball at his age range would just be a lateral move. 

Not one person could name a proven head coach when we fired Crean so why should that be a requirement for having standards. 
 

And no we have not locked down the state of Indiana.  We may have for awhile but the gates are open again 

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Not one person could name a proven head coach when we fired Crean so why should that be a requirement for having standards. 
 

And no we have not locked down the state of Indiana.  We may have for awhile but the gates are open again 

Well I’d hope our AD wouldn’t have a list of names at the very least prior to letting Archie go. My issue is, I don’t have a list myself and I’m involved in college basketball myself. 
 

What candidate is going to win right away and that can build here? Let me answer that for you, their all not leaving where there at now. 
 

This may be Indiana, but it’s not Indiana that people remember. Times have changed. Kids don’t know what Indiana is more than likely outside of our state. 

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6 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Well I’d hope our AD wouldn’t have a list of names at the very least prior to letting Archie go. My issue is, I don’t have a list myself and I’m involved in college basketball myself. 
 

What candidate is going to win right away and that can build here? Let me answer that for you, their all not leaving where there at now. 
 

This may be Indiana, but it’s not Indiana that people remember. Times have changed. Kids don’t know what Indiana is more than likely outside of our state. 

So your goal posts have moved already?  
 

Archie is one of the highest paid coaches in college basketball.  There are multiple coaches in the top 25 paid less.  We can attract somebody. Will they be a home run no. But they might teach shooting. 

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18 minutes ago, Treesh said:

One of my biggest issues with this topic is the lack of names people suggest would come to IU now and make us better within 3 years. We’d have to hire someone young, similar to Archie. Is there a young coach out there right now that can have greater success in 3 years than Archie currently? I don’t think so. 
 

Until there is a proven head coach that is willing to walk into Cook Hall, we must accept Archie. Anyone other than Archie in college basketball at his age range would just be a lateral move. 

Agree with this. ... A year or so ago, someone posted a postcast with an "insider" who seemed to know his stuff -- don't recall his name, however.  I can't say for sure how reliable this person was -- because all "appear" to know what they're talking about. He seemed pretty knowledgeable, however.

But he said that after Crean was let go, realistically there were three candidates for IU: Chris Mack (Xavier), Chris Holtmann (Butler) and Archie (Dayton). ... Mack preferred Louisville and Holtmann wasn't interested in the fish bowl that is IU. And I don't think he was necessarily implying that Archie was our third choice.

When Texas Tech made their run a couple years back, many were saying "hire Chris Beard" -- as if he would just drop everything and crawl to Bloomington had we called. It doesn't work that way anymore. 

For the record, I liked the Archie hire (then again, I liked the Crean hire and hated the Tom Allen and Teri Moren hires -- so my track record isn't all that great. LOL!). I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope he can point us in the right direction and keep us there. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the options are. And I can't say I know a whole lot about Scott Dolson, but the fact that he's never hired a coach is a bit of a concern to me. 

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1 minute ago, LamarCheeks said:

Agree with this. ... A year or so ago, someone posted a postcast with an "insider" who seemed to know his stuff -- don't recall his name, however.  I can't say for sure how reliable this person was -- because all "appear" to know what they're talking about. He seemed pretty knowledgeable, however.

But he said that after Crean was let go, realistically there were three candidates for IU: Chris Mack (Xavier), Chris Holtmann (Butler) and Archie (Dayton). ... Mack preferred Louisville and Holtmann wasn't interested in the fish bowl that is IU. When Texas Tech made their run a couple years back, many were saying "hire Chris Beard" -- as if he would just drop everything and crawl to Bloomington had we called. It doesn't work that way anymore. 

For the record, I liked the Archie hire (then again, I liked the Crean hire and hated the Tom Allen and Teri Moren hires -- so my track record isn't all that great. LOL!). I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I hope he can point us in the right direction and keep us there. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the options are. And I can't say I know a whole lot about Scott Dolson, but the fact that he's never hired a coach is a bit of a concern to me. 

Scott is a true Indiana fan, similar to Tom Allen. Was a manager under Bobby Knight back in the days. 
 

He knows what Indiana Basketball was and wants to be. Issue is, it’s 2020, Indiana may have five championships but 14-18 year olds couldn’t tell you that these days, they only know Duke, UNC, etc. 

If the time comes, I trust Scott to make the right decision.  But he’s not going to fire Archie when he doesn’t have a highly qualified candidate knocking on the door of Cook Hall. There’s no candidates out there that’s going to change this overnight. 
 

As I mention in the past, until I see Brad Stevens leave Boston.. then. 

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The concern isn't so much this year. We should make the NCAA tournament, if there is one. Kenpom has IU at #21, others have us around #30. But if TJD leaves after this year, which seems almost certain, next year could be another down year.

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25 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Scott is a true Indiana fan, similar to Tom Allen. Was a manager under Bobby Knight back in the days. 
 

He knows what Indiana Basketball was and wants to be. Issue is, it’s 2020, Indiana may have five championships but 14-18 year olds couldn’t tell you that these days, they only know Duke, UNC, etc. 

If the time comes, I trust Scott to make the right decision.  But he’s not going to fire Archie when he doesn’t have a highly qualified candidate knocking on the door of Cook Hall. There’s no candidates out there that’s going to change this overnight. 
 

As I mention in the past, until I see Brad Stevens leave Boston.. then. 

Yeah -- I know the basics about Dolson. In fact, he grew up about 30 minutes from where I did -- and is just a couple years older, so we came from the same high school conference and were at IU at the same time. I just don't know about his ability when it comes to making decisions about hiring/firing coaches. 

For the past few years, there have been two coaches I would've given my left arm to see come to IU (well, not really -- though since I'm right-handed, I could probably manage ... ), and those were Stevens and Tony Bennett. And that was well before Bennett won his natty. But apparently we kicked the tires on him before hiring Crean and he wasn't interested. 

And unfortunately, the timing didn't seem right for Stevens. Just as he was taking Butler places, Crean wasn't quite on the firing line yet. Then, he was off to Boston -- and I just cannot imagine he'd ever return to college hoops. 

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2 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

Yeah -- I know the basics about Dolson. In fact, he grew up about 30 minutes from where I did -- and is just a couple years older. I just don't know about his ability when it comes to making decisions about hiring/firing coaches. 

For the past few years, there have been two coaches I would've given my left arm to see come to IU (well, not really -- though since I'm right-handed, I could probably manage ... ), and those were Stevens and Tony Bennett. And that was well before Bennett won his natty. But apparently we kicked the tires on him before hiring Crean and he wasn't interested. 

And unfortunately, the timing didn't seem right for Stevens. Just as he was taking Butler places, Crean wasn't quite on the firing line yet. Then, he was off to Boston -- and I just cannot imagine he'd ever return to college hoops. 

I'd never say never.  If somehow Brad Stevens has to deal with some divas for a few years it might change his mind.  I'd say it's highly unlikely but things could change.

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