Are We Better Than Last Year?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,188]

8 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I agree that Crean did not leave a lot but look what Crean inherited. We all agree he was a bad coach, in regards to recruiting/defense/substitutions/etc.etc.etc but in year four he was in the sweet 16. A “bad” coach inherited 2 walk-ons and had Indiana in the sweet 16 in 4 years. What is a reasonable expectation for Archie?

Returning players on Creans first team:

Kyle Tabor

Brett Finkelmeier

That is unimaginably bad....

Returning players on Archie’s “NOTHING” first team

Juwan Morgan

Freddie McSwain
Zach McRoberts
Colin Hartman

Robert Johnson

Josh Newkrik

Devonte Green

FAR, FAR from a great roster but way above what Crean inherited. Also, that inherited roster was 9-9 in conference play and came in 6th in the BT both of which have  been the best of Archie’s 3 years.
 

Not only a Sweet 16 but we were ranked most of the season. Crean had many problems obviously and should have been fired, but this is Archie's 4th year. Everyone on this team is his. I think Race is the only dude whoever went to a Crean practice. Whatever system Archie is trying to run, needs to just be thrown in the trash because it's absolute garbage. He shouldn't make it past this season. Time to start looking for a replacement. 

[pumpfake 3,914]

Odd thoughts (h/t to the late Bob Collins):

- While listening to the game yesterday, I thought "man, I think I actually would prefer a team that scores easily but defends poorly over this perennial bad to mediocre shooting."  Either that, or be an absolute lockdown defensive team.  Generally watching our games over the past three years have been mostly frustrating.

- Sometimes we need to try to be more objective (as difficult as it may be) about the status of the program.  I mean, the experts have picked us to finish in the bottom half of conference every year and as bitter a pill as it is, they've been correct.  Rivalries aside, I get the impression our conference opponents don't respect Archie's coaching ability.  Heck, we hate purdue and they haven't been to a FF since the 70's, but most IU fans will acknowledge that Painter is a good coach.

- As someone mentioned earlier regarding Crean and S16 loss to Syracuse, there is a bit of a deja vu feeling.  Remember how a couple of years in advance it was said the Indiana HS class of 2017 (?) was loaded and we needed to cash in big time?  Same thing seems to have happened with the '21 class.  Our out of state recruiting has been disappointing.

- Disappointing is a good word for my attitude toward CAM.  Coming in, I thought he'd be an outstanding coach and put a hard-nosed team on the floor.  For whatever reason, that hasn't come close to  panning out.  I admit to being somewhat flummoxed - I think Archie is a quality coach, but some things don't seem to be changing with his teams here (poor FT shooting, anemic offense, etc).  I don't think he will or should be canned yet, but the honeymoon period is over IMO, we have to see improvements in results - finishing toward the top in conference, being competitive against good teams every time we play one, and a good style of play and execution.

That is all.  The season isn't lost, and time will tell how much this team has improved over last year.

[LamarCheeks 16,823]

14 hours ago, Josh said:

Nah, the people who defend Archie have posted more nonsense than this.  This guy is just tired of the constant trends of Archie Miller basketball 

Actually, you are the winner. To say you're gonna go to a game with a bag on your head while wearing IU gear and try to recruit fans to cheer against IU and chant "Fire Archie" --- that's a winner. Hands down. I'm on a couple chat boards and FB pages and that was the most asinine comment. By a wide margin. 

[Stuhoo 75,564]

 

Hey all--let's self-regulate and STOP any and all personal attacks. 

When IUBB puts out a clunker game I know people get frustrated, but personal attacks tend to swallow up threads and don't do any of us any good.

Thanks

 

[Josh 12,360]

22 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

Actually, you are the winner. To say you're gonna go to a game with a bag on your head while wearing IU gear and try to recruit fans to cheer against IU and chant "Fire Archie" --- that's a winner. Hands down. I'm on a couple chat boards and FB pages and that was the most asinine comment. By a wide margin. 

You misread me.  I'll never cheer against IU and I'd never encourage anybody to root against them.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

So after four games, three of which have been against top 40 teams, we are 3-1. I think the answer is ‘yes’; we ARE better than last year.

Race Thompson is a significant upgrade over Joey Brunk as the other starting big, and Armaan Franklin is a real upgrade over Justin Smith, both in variety of skills and especially in mindset.

We are also far far deeper; Brunk will be a good bench big, Galloway is a jack of all trades, and Lander shows real promise; albeit with lots of rough patches.

The B1G is gonna be an incredibly rough road, but the team itself? It’s pretty good.

Get well Joey and Al!

 

[Josh 12,360]

Isn't it too early to tell?  I feel like whenever we lose the majority of this board says it's too early to discern anything from it.  Even after 3+ years.

But after a win?  That's all the proof they need.

[Uspshoosier 44,207]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Isn't it too early to tell?  I feel like whenever we lose the majority of this board says it's too early to discern anything from it.  Even after 3+ years.

But after a win?  That's all the proof they need.

All the proof who needs?   The answer is yes it’s too early to tell if IU is better this year then last just like it was too early to tell after yesterday’s loss.   My guess would be that people are always going to be more optimistic and express that on a free message board after the team they follow wins a game.  Most people that come on here are more inclined to focus on the positives more so then the negatives.  Now I’m sure some people would like to focus more on the negative but I would guess they would be in the minority 

[Josh 12,360]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

All the proof who needs?   The answer is yes it’s too early to tell if IU is better this year then last just like it was too early to tell after yesterday’s loss.   My guess would be that people are always going to be more optimistic and express that on a free message board after the team they follow wins a game.  Most people that come on here are more inclined to focus on the positives more so then the negatives.  Now I’m sure some people would like to focus more on the negative but I would guess they would be in the minority 

I thought i had quoted the first paragraph from Stuhoo above my post but I suppose it didn't work.

People happy with the program are more optimistic and people upset with it are more negative.  Not a shock.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

33 minutes ago, Josh said:

Isn't it too early to tell?  I feel like whenever we lose the majority of this board says it's too early to discern anything from it.  Even after 3+ years.

But after a win?  That's all the proof they need.

It may be too early for you...the picture is clearing up a bit for me! I’m a quick learner maybe.  ;)

[mdn82 25,456]

I agree with the premise of what Josh is saying. It is too early to tell one way or another.  There are certain things on first glance that looks better.  The defense really impressed me and as you all know we just haven’t started strong defensively the last few years.  Offensively we all know.  We have done some good things and horrible things.  It’s a weird year in we have to work the kinks out playing teams like FSU and Butler.  I honestly don’t know how we will react to this environment with no fans, two cupcakes, really no room for error.  Some teams will handle this better than others.  I honestly don’t know what to expect.  We will see.

[RaceToTheTop 23,579]

52 minutes ago, Josh said:

Isn't it too early to tell?  I feel like whenever we lose the majority of this board says it's too early to discern anything from it.  Even after 3+ years.

But after a win?  That's all the proof they need.

My take is the exact opposite.  I feel whenever we lose, the loudest voices say how horrible we are and want us to move on from Archie.  After a win?  Those same people say we don't do it consistently enough -- or the reaction of some of the biggest complainers -- when we do well, they stop showing up.

Personally, the bottom line to me is that any decision on hiring decisions has zero to do with my opinion.  I'm in front of the tv rooting for us and get frustrated and pissed at some times, excited and happy at others.  

[RaceToTheTop 23,579]

FWIW, the one thing I do know is that whether or not we are better than last year, I LIKE this team more.  Glad that DeVonte's selfishness is gone, De'ron's pouting isn't here, and Justin Smith's lack of self awareness to his own abilities aren't the 'leadership' being offered.

[coonhounds 8,690]

We were better than last year monday and today.I felt we were a little worse on Tuesday shooting 23 percent . It is way to early to tell. Why it is even being debated is interesting. Can someone tell me why we shouldn't be better is the question? Most our guys added another year of weights and experience and we added some good pieces and lost Justin Smith. Maybe we lost someone else but I can't think of them. Someone tell me why we shouldn't be better.

 

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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

16 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

We were better than last year monday and today.I felt we were a little worse on Tuesday shooting 23 percent . It is way to early to tell. Why it is even being debated is interesting. Can someone tell me why we shouldn't be better is the question? Most our guys added another year of weights and experience and we added some good pieces and lost Justin Smith. Maybe we lost someone else but I can't think of them. Someone tell me why we shouldn't be better.

 

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We lost Green and Smith both big contributors for better or worse.  We replaced Green with a 5 star and should be in a better position soon from what I have seen.  
 

Smith seems to have been replaced by race and surpassed even but now we need somebody to step up and fill Races shoes from last year.  
 

Outside of a raw talent perspective we still seem to be lacking in outside shooting and consistency in pushing the offense in transition.  Against good defenses we will pay for this. In the Big ten we will face several quality defenses.  In the past we saw the team crumble both in previous seasons and on Tuesday.   Our incremental talent improvements mean nothing if we fall apart the first time somebody punches us in the mouth. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,579]

I will say this about Justin Smith......it seems like most power five teams are playing pretty tough non-conference schedules because of the reduction in non-conference games.....except Arkansas.

Their non-con slate:

North Texas, Mississippi Valley State, Texas Arlington, Lipscomb, Tulsa, Central Arkansas, Oral Roberts, and Abilene Christian.

They may go 8-0 (only possible loss I see would be Tulsa) and yet be hurt for a tournament bid because of how incredibly weak that group is.

[coonhounds 8,690]

We lost Green and Smith both big contributors for better or worse.  We replaced Green with a 5 star and should be in a better position soon from what I have seen.  
 
Smith seems to have been replaced by replace and surpassed but now we need somebody to step up and fill Races shoes from last year.  
 
Outside of a raw talent perspective we still seem to be lacking in outside shooting and consistency in pushing the offense in transition.  Against good defenses we will pay for this. In the Big ten we will face several quality defenses.  In the past we saw the team crumble both in previous seasons and on Tuesday.   Our incremental talent improvements mean nothing if we fall apart the first time somebody punches us in the mouth. 

Thank you I forgot green. Yea he was a impact player and could hit the outside shot. I will probably get destroyed for that post for forgetting him. Smith though I think is blessing he left. I wish green would have got another year felt bad his career ended like alot of players did with the pandemic

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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

3 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Thank you I forgot green. Yea he was a impact player and could hit the outside shot. I will probably get destroyed for that post for forgetting him. Smith though I think is blessing he left. I wish green would have got another year felt bad his career ended like alot of players did with the pandemic

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Here’s my thing with smith. If he was the cancer we all seem to think he was he shouldn’t have still been on the team.  So to me that means the team was a dysfunctional mess either because we lacked leadership in getting rid of a player or developing a player.  Either one is bad 

[Stuhoo 75,564]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Here’s my thing with smith. If he was the cancer we all seem to think he was he shouldn’t have still been on the team.  So to me that means the team was a dysfunctional mess either because we lacked leadership in getting rid of a player or developing a player.  Either one is bad 

It’s not that simple. He was an academic all B1G. He played hard. 

Do you really want to kick a kid off the team because he’s got a sour personality?

 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

23 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

My take is the exact opposite.  I feel whenever we lose, the loudest voices say how horrible we are and want us to move on from Archie.  After a win?  Those same people say we don't do it consistently enough -- or the reaction of some of the biggest complainers -- when we do well, they stop showing up.

Personally, the bottom line to me is that any decision on hiring decisions has zero to do with my opinion.  I'm in front of the tv rooting for us and get frustrated and pissed at some times, excited and happy at others.  

I have always been consistent with my critique of Archie. Just like Crean he’s capable of winning any game.  But he’s also been capable of losing any game.  Crean was fired because his teams were inconsistent both within a season and from season to season. Archie has been fairly consistent from season to season.  But it’s not been at an acceptable level. And his teams are inconsistent during the season to boot.