Are We Better Than Last Year?

[Trish 11,408]

Just now, Hardwood83 said:

I hope you're right. No shame in losing to a good, athletic Texas team.  My issue is the disinterested, sluggish play. I have no tolerance for that. That is why I turned it off. There was a lot of time left but it was clearly over. 

I don't think Archie will be fired anytime soon, but I have little confidence he is the answer. I will GLADLY eat crow if he proves me wrong, but IU is in the same baffling cycle of inconsistency that got Crean fired, except we never even reached the heights he provided. 

Honestly, as a basketball coach myself, i find my interest this year to be somewhat diminished due to the fact our season is in jeopardy each day. If we make it to March Madness then wow! Not saying it's an excuse for coaches or players, but you're talking about college students who are suppose to be in Hawaii right now and living an incredible life in Bloomington. It's a weird year.

As for the right coaching hire. I mean, it's for another thread of course.  But, I just can't come up with a legit list of actual candidates that can come in here and win tomorrow. Any new hire would take an additional 4 years of rebuilding and can IU fans do that? No.

We' (IU fans) have been spoiled.  

[kreigh8 2,008]

7 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Honestly, as a basketball coach myself, i find my interest this year to be somewhat diminished due to the fact our season is in jeopardy each day. If we make it to March Madness then wow! Not saying it's an excuse for coaches or players, but you're talking about college students who are suppose to be in Hawaii right now and living an incredible life in Bloomington. It's a weird year.

As for the right coaching hire. I mean, it's for another thread of course.  But, I just can't come up with a legit list of actual candidates that can come in here and win tomorrow. Any new hire would take an additional 4 years of rebuilding and can IU fans do that? No.

We' (IU fans) have been spoiled.  

I just don't buy the rationale that firing Archie means an automatic rebuild. The next coach wouldn't be inheriting an empty roster like Crean inherited or left Archie when he lost momentum on the recruiting trail. Does Archie need to recruit better? Without a doubt, but there's some pieces here, I just don't know if they are being put into a position to succeed consistently enough. I'm still hopeful Archie turns this around, today was, hopefully and simply, a bad day. The shooting is still bad, but I'm still not entirely sure I can see what's trying to be accomplished on the offensive end. If the plan is to pound it to TJD, he'll need to play far better as the competition continues to improve.

[Bowhunter 2,656]

We need shooters.
We need athleticism.
We need toughness.


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[Josh 12,363]

40 minutes ago, Treesh said:

 

REDUCED SCHEDULE: It's the 3rd game of the season and the entire fanbase is ready to jump onto I69 during rush hour. RELAX!! You see how those tune up games are important right? Even if it's cupcakes, we need GAMES! Oh yeah, wasn't our last game in early March too? hm.. 

Come on now...it's not just 3 games.  It's more than 3 years of the same thing.  That's reality.

40 minutes ago, Treesh said:

We're young. Our great PG in Rob P has been a shadow of himself ever seen he got hurt two years ago.

A shadow of what?  He's been the same player since he got here.  Any other player that you've conceived in your head isn't reality.

40 minutes ago, Treesh said:

 it's year four and you guys are expecting a championship? 

 

You're going to extremes here..  I'm expecting not to get blown out every 4th game.  Is that really a lot to ask?

[Trish 11,408]

11 minutes ago, Josh said:

Come on now...it's not just 3 games.  It's more than 3 years of the same thing.  That's reality.

A shadow of what?  He's been the same player since he got here.  Any other player that you've conceived in your head isn't reality.

You're going to extremes here..  I'm expecting not to get blown out every 4th game.  Is that really a lot to ask?

1: A rebuild is going to take time. A rebuild that was much needed after Crean left us with NOTHING. We got Al who we all love, but we know he's not a star. A whole new offense, a whole new defense, new players to recruit. Sure progress on the shooting and offense is something everyone wants to see, but that's not all on Archie's shoulders. He's not shooting the shots. We're getting looks. Our players have to play harder. Or maybe set better screens than we did today so we can get cleaner looks? Just a thought! 

2. Rob showed some much needed PG skills prior to his freshman injury. Short sample size sure, but he looked like he could be something. His injuries plagued his career and this will be the year to determine if he makes that jump. 

3. We play in the toughest conference with a bunch of underclassmen. Yes blowouts aren't welcomed, especially every 4th game as you may suggest for this up-coming season, but the truth is, we're inexperienced. Al and Rob can only take the remaining underclassmen so far. We all know what Joey Brunk is too so.. 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

6 minutes ago, Treesh said:

1: A rebuild is going to take time. A rebuild that was much needed after Crean left us with NOTHING. We got Al who we all love, but we know he's not a star. A whole new offense, a whole new defense, new players to recruit. Sure progress on the shooting and offense is something everyone wants to see, but that's not all on Archie's shoulders. He's not shooting the shots. We're getting looks. Our players have to play harder. Or maybe set better screens than we did today so we can get cleaner looks? Just a thought! 

2. Rob showed some much needed PG skills prior to his freshman injury. Short sample size sure, but he looked like he could be something. His injuries plagued his career and this will be the year to determine if he makes that jump. 

3. We play in the toughest conference with a bunch of underclassmen. Yes blowouts aren't welcomed, especially every 4th game as you may suggest for this up-coming season, but the truth is, we're inexperienced. Al and Rob can only take the remaining underclassmen so far. We all know what Joey Brunk is too so.. 

How long should the rebuild take lol.  This is high comedy. 

[Josh 12,363]

4 minutes ago, Treesh said:

1: A rebuild is going to take time. A rebuild that was much needed after Crean left us with NOTHING. We got Al who we all love, but we know he's not a star. A whole new offense, a whole new defense, new players to recruit. Sure progress on the shooting and offense is something everyone wants to see, but that's not all on Archie's shoulders. He's not shooting the shots. We're getting looks. Our players have to play harder. Or maybe set better screens than we did today so we can get cleaner looks? Just a thought! 

2. Rob showed some much needed PG skills prior to his freshman injury. Short sample size sure, but he looked like he could be something. His injuries plagued his career and this will be the year to determine if he makes that jump. 

3. We play in the toughest conference with a bunch of underclassmen. Yes blowouts aren't welcomed, especially every 4th game as you may suggest for this up-coming season, but the truth is, we're inexperienced. Al and Rob can only take the remaining underclassmen so far. We all know what Joey Brunk is too so.. 

1.  Ok...how much time are we supposed to give him?  Sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing this for 3 and a half years.  Please give me a number when we can finally hold Archie accountable for this mess.

2. He showed promise in high school and has disappointed in college?  Hmm

3. We're really not that young.  Today we started a senior, two 3rd year players, a sophomore who started every game last season, and another sophomore.  This seems like another excuse to keep any accountability off Archie.

[Uspshoosier 44,225]

Yeah probably but i only got 3 games to go by this year so me personally I can’t really answer that until I have more to go by 

[Uspshoosier 44,225]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

1.  Ok...how much time are we supposed to give him?  Sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing this for 3 and a half years.  Please give me a number when we can finally hold Archie accountable for this mess.

2. He showed promise in high school and has disappointed in college?  Hmm

3. We're really not that young.  Today we started a senior, two 3rd year players, a sophomore who started every game last season, and another sophomore.  This seems like another excuse to keep any accountability off Archie.

As much as you want or not want to give him.  Hold him accountable after year 1,2,3 or whenever.  Probably going to be a different answer for each person so that would be an extremely hard question to answer 

[Uspshoosier 44,225]

Good to see some active posters back on the board.    Season hasn’t truly started until the first loss of the season.  Welcome back everybody 

[Josh 12,363]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

As much as you want or not want to give him.  Hold him accountable after year 1,2,3 or whenever.  Probably going to be a different answer for each person so that would be an extremely hard question to answer 

I'm asking Treesh based upon what he was saying.

How long do you think we should accept multiple lackluster blowouts every year before we can accept that it's a trend under Archie Miller?

[Trish 11,408]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

1.  Ok...how much time are we supposed to give him?  Sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing this for 3 and a half years.  Please give me a number when we can finally hold Archie accountable for this mess.

2. He showed promise in high school and has disappointed in college?  Hmm

3. We're really not that young.  Today we started a senior, two 3rd year players, a sophomore who started every game last season, and another sophomore.  This seems like another excuse to keep any accountability off Archie.

1. I'm not an AD, but I'm not firing Archie or considering it until I know damn sure I have 5-10 great candidates that would either be strongly interested or have shown interest. Again for another thread, but i honestly can't come up with that many names who would actually come here and do better and have NCAA experience, etc. When Brad Stevens decides to come home, let me know. But to answer your question, if we're missing the NCAA Tourney in year 5 and 6, then sure. It may be justifiable. But to be fair, COVID will take out this years dance and took out last year's dance so.. 

3. To be fair, Race has played only one true season and has an incrediblly different meaning to this team now that Justin is gone. So we have Rob who has played two season's and Al who has the most experience. We're young. Archie brings four freshman off the bench. We're young. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,747]

We aren’t Michigan State. We aren’t top 4 in conference. Until we are, I don’t care if we are better. What good is that, when you are an average basketball team year after year. Anyone see any drastic changes that take us from average to great? I sure don’t.

 

 

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[Uspshoosier 44,225]

Just now, Josh said:

I'm asking Treesh based upon what he was saying.

How long do you think we should accept multiple lackluster blowouts every year before we can accept that it's a trend under Archie Miller?

As long as you want.  Isn’t there only 2 answers?  You either don’t accept it and  stop watching them play and wait until someone takes over that you would want to be coach or you accept it and watch them play despite hating the coach and come on here and tell everyone how much you hate Archie and his lack of offense and threaten to wear a paper bag on your head for a game.  
 

as for me I’ll accept it as long as Indiana decides to keep him as the coach of Indiana basketball.  Doesn’t matter who is coach I roll with whoever is in charge.  

[Josh 12,363]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

1. I'm not an AD, but I'm not firing Archie or considering it until I know damn sure I have 5-10 great candidates that would either be strongly interested or have shown interest. Again for another thread, but i honestly can't come up with that many names who would actually come here and do better and have NCAA experience, etc. When Brad Stevens decides to come home, let me know. But to answer your question, if we're missing the NCAA Tourney in year 5 and 6, then sure. It may be justifiable. But to be fair, COVID will take out this years dance and took out last year's dance so.. 

3. To be fair, Race has played only one true season and has an incrediblly different meaning to this team now that Justin is gone. So we have Rob who has played two season's and Al who has the most experience. We're young. Archie brings four freshman off the bench. We're young. 

1.  You have much more tolerance for losing than I.  6 years?

2.  Bringing freshmen off the bench is what experienced teams do.  Starting them is what young teams do.

[Josh 12,363]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

As long as you want.  Isn’t there only 2 answers?  You either don’t accept it and  stop watching them play and wait until someone takes over that you would want to be coach or you accept it and watch them play despite hating the coach and come on here and tell everyone how much you hate Archie and his lack of offense and threaten to wear a paper bag on your head for a game.  
 

as for me I’ll accept it as long as Indiana decides to keep him as the coach of Indiana basketball.  Doesn’t matter who is coach I roll with whoever is in charge.  

You and I are built differently.  When I see constant underperformance, I demand that it gets fixed.  I refuse mediocre complacency.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

Just now, Josh said:

You and I are built differently.  When I see constant underperformance, I demand that it gets fixed.  I refuse mediocre complacency.

Organizations that don’t fire the wrong people because they are afraid they can’t find the right people are to be blunt. Poorly ran.  If I kept somebody who was underperforming for 4 years my boss would have to deem me underperforming. 

[Uspshoosier 44,225]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

You and I are built differently.  When I see constant underperformance, I demand that it gets fixed.  I refuse mediocre complacency.

Are you still watching though? You say you refuse mediocre complacency  but you still watch a product that you yourself  call  mediocre 

[Trish 11,408]

Just now, Josh said:

1.  You have much more tolerance for losing than I.  6 years?

2.  Bringing freshmen off the bench is what experienced teams do.  Starting them is what young teams do.

I'm indeed different when it comes to winning here at IU. I led the tank train to get Crean fired many moons ago on this board. It's Indiana, championships or busts. Until I see Brad Stevens walk through the door, I don't think we're getting there under anyone. (Brad has his flaws, but you get what I mean I assume).

2. I'm a different basketball mind, I don't measure a youth of a team on who starts. That's a different perspective for yourself, but good for you. 

 

[Josh 12,363]

2 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Are you still watching though? You say you refuse mediocre complacency  but you still watch a product that you call yourself mediocre 

Yes, I'm still watching.  If I quit, I'm a quitter.

I'm an alumnus who will always want us to do well and will demand change when we are not.

Complacency is accepting and defending mediocre results.