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Archie and Progress

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I don't think you are getting what I am saying. We had open 3 point attempts all season long and missed tons. So, that leads to the other team sagging off of our perimeter players cause they knew we were not going to hit them. In turn they packed the paint, causing our bigs more trouble inside with a crowded lane that is already being crowded by playing 2 bigs or 1 big and 1 slasher (JS). I am speculating that the offense that was ran was to try and compensate for the lack of 3 point shooting and lack of a perimeter big. Have 2 Bigs down low to try and power through the defense, whose sole focus is now defending the paint, and for put backs.
The purpose of a 4 out 1 in approach is to open the lane, however, this approach will not work if you cannot hit 3s effectively, because the defense doesn't have to guard the perimeter. They can sag into the lane and crowd the lane for the slasher or big. I believe the reason that we missed so many bunnies this season, wasn't just because we had too many guys on the block it was because of the defense sagging off the perimeter helping against the post. Too much resistance for the bigs to finish effectively. Until IU solves the perimeter game, there is nothing, no set half court offense that will solve the issue. Unless we maintain the up tempo offense, that doesn't allow the defense to get set. We have to become successful from behind the arc to make defenses stay with their guy to open the post.
To respond to some other things in your post, there would be no reason to put Hunter at the 4 this past year. Yes, he can play with his back to the basket, but he just come off of what could have been a career ending condition, playing as a "freshman" in the B1G. Why would you put him down low, with the uncertainty of another clot or whatever his condition was? Maybe it was the coach watching out for the health of his player, making sure that his condition didn't return due to the rough nature of post play B1G basketball? IDK, but it might be a reason, just speculating. I truly believe Hunter is very lucky to still be playing basketball at this point and wish him all of the success to come. Phinese played all year with what is sounding like a sports hernia, which would account for some of the lack of explosiveness. That s**t hurts, I've had one in basketball and it shut me down. So if this is the case, props to Rob for being able to push through that.

We had some open 3’s but we had zero open lanes to the basket. That’s the problem. How can a guy like Lander be successful with no driving lanes? And as for Hunter, what does him playing with his back to the basket have to do with playing the 4? You don’t have to do that anymore. Not in today’s game. 4’s now are just an extra perimeter guy. Like I said, Archie’s offense is stuck 40 years in the past.


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2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


We had some open 3’s but we had zero open lanes to the basket. That’s the problem. How can a guy like Lander be successful with no driving lanes? And as for Hunter, what does him playing with his back to the basket have to do with playing the 4? You don’t have to do that anymore. Not in today’s game. 4’s now are just an extra perimeter guy. Like I said, Archie’s offense is stuck 40 years in the past.


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Exactly, and the reason there were no lanes is due to more than just having the 2nd big in the post. It was also due to the extra 2-3 defenders packing the post because we could not spread the floor due to dismal 3 point shooting. All the defense had to do in most games this season was to guard the ball and pack the post. Later in the season, when more shots were falling by different players, I, personally, think that the offense did get to open up a little and there was a little more freedom of movement. Solution, add shooters, spread the floor, eliminate the need to play 2 bigs, open lanes, pgs can now drive/pick&roll or pop.

Hunter was known for his back to the basket skills, thats why I mentioned it. However, if he were to play the 4, even if he was a stretch 4, he would still have to likely guard a post position at some point. Again I said I was speculating at why he wasn't played at the 4 (due to his injury/condition).

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Exactly, and the reason there were no lanes is due to more than just having the 2nd big in the post. It was also due to the extra 2-3 defenders packing the post because we could not spread the floor due to dismal 3 point shooting. All the defense had to do in most games this season was to guard the ball and pack the post. Later in the season, when more shots were falling by different players, I, personally, think that the offense did get to open up a little and there was a little more freedom of movement. Solution, add shooters, spread the floor, eliminate the need to play 2 bigs, open lanes, pgs can now drive/pick&roll or pop.
Hunter was known for his back to the basket skills, thats why I mentioned it. However, if he were to play the 4, even if he was a stretch 4, he would still have to likely guard a post position at some point. Again I said I was speculating at why he wasn't played at the 4 (due to his injury/condition).

You just get rid of the 2nd big and you open up that lane. That and a guy like Durham needs to shoot more than 3 from behind the arc a game. Which I’ve also mentioned. He needs to be shooting 6 at least. No reason to guard a guy on the 3pt line when he’s not likely to ever shoot it even. All of them obviously need to get to work on their 3’s. Durham, Smith, Hunter, Race, Franklin, Rob. Though right now with all of the isolation they need to be watching film and not just of themselves. But of old games. Archie should be making them watch games back from like 87’. And Archie probably should be too. I’ve only witnessed two successful offenses that have two guys on the block. A play my dad ran in AAU we called Iowa(double pick I came off of for open shots and worked into a bunch of other stuff and was continuous) and the Flex. But Archie’s is counterproductive and it has to be frustrating as a guard who wants to get to the basket, which Phinisee showed some flashes of the ability at times.


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Here's what makes me smile.  If we go back and look, how many of the same posters b*tching now used Chris Beard as an example of "WHO WE COULD HAVE HAD!!!!!!" or who they want?   It was a lot.  Couple guys on here who can't seem to whine enough nor see any positives regardless of where they look, but here's the facts, boys.   https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE  Indiana was better than or about equal to Texas Tech in about every category, including record.  That "next shiny thing" isn't any shinier than Archie except for one good run a year ago. Indiana will have plenty of those given time.
"There aren't many positives so far."   Well, not if you aren't looking for them.  Recruiting is an obvious one, and to not acknowledge it erases any credibility at all.  Only 13 teams in the country had more quad 1 wins than Indiana had this season and there are 353 D1 teams.  In that category, Indiana was better than 96.4% of the country.   Indiana was 26th in defensive efficiency (see above).  Remember when Indiana was known for its defense?  We sure won a lot of games then.   Indiana was still 65th in offensive efficiency.  Great?   No.  A horrific failure?  No.  
There hasn't been enough positive if you're only concerned about results, and that's cool.  Seriously.  I get that.   I simply said I am taking a different approach and I see (because of that approach) a whole lot more positives than some.  A few things have to happen in my opinion.  One is to allow Archie's players to "get old" so Indiana can "stay old."   Another was to have Green graduate.  He said himself in his senior speech he didn't want to learn, and he hijacked at least 5 possessions every game.  With so many close games, we can't have that.  Green sure was fun when he was "on," but when he wasn't and still tried to be?  Yuck.   Another is to allow a couple of kids (Phinisee, Hunter, and Thompson in particular) to play healthy and play together.  I see a whole lot of positives in those kids, but they've lost so much time to injury, I understand why others may not.  
Finally, what exactly has or hasn't Archie done which you as a coach would do differently given exactly the same circumstances?  No cop out "I'm not paid millions of dollars..." answers.   He doesn't make that money to please you.  He's paid to represent IU and to win.  The speed at which he does the latter is not in his contract, nor is pleasing complainers on a message board.  So....what has his coaching truly cost Indiana so far?  Last season?  "We'd better make the NCAA tournament or else!"  Well....we did.  And now it's on to the next thing to b*tch about.   Sincerely interested in what you believe Archie has cost Indiana, especially this past season.

Chris Beard and Texas Tech has had more than one “good” run.

2017-18 Elite 8
2018-19 National Runner Up
2019-20 bubble team. I think they were on 75% of the brackets for an average of an 11 seed.

You are comparing 2019-20 where they had only 3 returning players and yet had a team nearly on par with IU.

Now I don’t know who will be better over the next few years but he has had an incredible start there which one “good” run just does not fairly describe. Further, to compare IUs 2019-20 season to theirs as if to prove some point is strange to me especially since they only had 3 players back. Somehow according to your link they were ranked 21 and we were 34. Seems like a heck of a result for a rebuilding year.


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9 hours ago, 8bucks said:


Chris Beard and Texas Tech has had more than one “good” run.

2017-18 Elite 8
2018-19 National Runner Up
2019-20 bubble team. I think they were on 75% of the brackets for an average of an 11 seed.

You are comparing 2019-20 where they had only 3 returning players and yet had a team nearly on par with IU.

Now I don’t know who will be better over the next few years but he has had an incredible start there which one “good” run just does not fairly describe. Further, to compare IUs 2019-20 season to theirs as if to prove some point is strange to me especially since they only had 3 players back. Somehow according to your link they were ranked 21 and we were 34. Seems like a heck of a result for a rebuilding year.


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Give it a rest, man.  Seriously.  You don't have to spin everything so it fits into your bubble.  There's enough guys on here who already do that.  Nobody heard Chris Beard's name on here until people were pissed about last season, so revisionist history is pretty easy.  They were 18-13 this season and Indiana was 20-12.  Indiana has improved every season and they're building the team to stay experienced so that kind of dropoff doesn't happen.  Maybe it will or maybe it won't, but the overall point doesn't change.   I know you missed it and I don't really feel like explaining it.  Just stop.

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Give it a rest, man.  Seriously.  You don't have to spin everything so it fits into your bubble.  There's enough guys on here who already do that.  Nobody heard Chris Beard's name on here until people were pissed about last season, so revisionist history is pretty easy.  They were 18-13 this season and Indiana was 20-12.  Indiana has improved every season and they're building the team to stay experienced so that kind of dropoff doesn't happen.  Maybe it will or maybe it won't, but the overall point doesn't change.   I know you missed it and I don't really feel like explaining it.  Just stop.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I am clearly on the fence with regards to Archie and would love for him to prosper here.

You are the one who brought Chris Beard into this conversation and you shortchanged his accomplishments. If I correct you that is not spin.


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https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/07/20/offseason-storylines-what-are-realistic-expectations-for-archie-miller-and-iu-basketball/

Pat Forde, Mike DeCourcey, and Rob Dauster giver their opinions on what Archie has done and what they expect from IU this year. 

Pretty agreeable to all three. 

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Decent article in the off season. Archie has to turn on the juice this season and next. He has his 3 years out of the way. That's all I was giving him from day 1. I did like the product in the final stretch. Time to be ranked and to start making sure the nation remembers IU's place in cbb. We've been down long enough. If we aren't knocking heads starting this year, I'll be slipping on support for Archie. However, I do think he's the guy for us. Or I want him to be the guy, at least. 

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