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Archie and Progress

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23 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Are you trying to make the case that it was a successful season? I’m not sure you have a leg to stand on there.

 

The bar was set extremely low for there to be progress and yes double digit blowouts, I believe second most in IU history right behind Creans first team of walk-ons is not success

 

 

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Uh no. But what did you expect for that season? please don't tell me the NCAA tournament.... If so i am not sure you have a leg to stand on there. 

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27 minutes ago, lillurk said:

The conference-only efficiency numbers have gone the wrong way (7th in efficiency margin in conference games in Arch’s 1st year, then 10th, then 12th). Yes, the conference was stronger this year, but some of that is still worrisome: the conference got better for a few reasons, and some of them will stick (Illinois and Ohio State may not fall back much, for example). Still, while I think there are some reasons for optimism, that’s concerning.

I do also worry about the scheme on both ends. Arch stubbornly stuck with slow big + high hedge too long on defense and gave up tons of open threes. Things were better as Hunter and Thompson came along, but it’s still a scheme that tends to give up lots of 3s.

Arch doesn’t seem to want to adjust, and I hope he considers some new ideas on both sides of the ball this offseason. Currently he’s got a lot of time to watch film.

On offense, IU occasionally does interesting things but the big picture is less than the sum of its parts — even within the conference, many coaches get better production with less talent. 

He seems to have a hard time getting his teams on the same page. This seems less true with the guys Arch has recruited. Some have called this an attitude problem, but attitude reflects leadership. We’ll see if this can change. It’s main on-court impact is too many bad decisions, and too many give-up road games.

I wouldn’t say next year is a “put up or shut up” year for Arch but it’s definitely time to be past the perpetual tournament bubble. Even without Lander, Torvik’s super early projections have IU 22nd. The too early top 25s have them just outside. That seems about the range...a six or seven seed, give or take.

The conference only efficiency numbers are pointless unless they are adjusted. The conference two years ago isn't even in the same stratosphere as the past two seasons. 

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The conference only efficiency numbers are pointless unless they are adjusted. The conference two years ago isn't even in the same stratosphere as the past two seasons. 

But it’s not like it’s been amazing the last two season. Top teams got worse from last season to this season and Rutgers got better.


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1 minute ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


But it’s not like it’s been amazing the last two season. Top teams got worse from last season to this season and Rutgers got better.


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Yeah I couldn't disagree more. There's a reason two years ago only 4 teams made the tournament, 8 last year, and 10* this year with 12 teams in top 34 of Kenpom. THe reason is the conference as a WHOLE got a lot better. 

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Yeah I couldn't disagree more. There's a reason two years ago only 4 teams made the tournament, 8 last year, and 10* this year with 12 teams in top 34 of Kenpom. THe reason is the conference as a WHOLE got a lot better. 

Or college basketball around the Big Ten got worse as well.


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Uh no. But what did you expect for that season? please don't tell me the NCAA tournament.... If so i am not sure you have a leg to stand on there. 

We didn’t even make the NIT so a far cry from the NCAAs.

Expectations were to be competitive and not get our doors blown off over and and over and not just by ranked teams but to non NCAA teams and not just on the road but at home.

It was a horrible season by almost any measure. Dog stomped in 1/3 of our games



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Archie was hired to be a top 4 B1G team year in and year out and a national contender every season. Like other great programs.

We finished 10th in the B1G this year despite making the NCAA, in year 3.

Is there hope we will be better next year? Sure. Indiana basketball is always about hope, because usually the seasons are depressing.

My opinion, we will be projected 6-8th in the B1G next year. Around 30 in the country. That’s still not good enough. At some point Archie needs to catapult the success and break the trends. Say, we have a decent year next season, as projected, then lose TJD, we likely stay projected 6-8 range for the following year. He’s got to do something to buck the trend either with recruiting or hopefully with actual on court results.


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1 hour ago, IUc2016 said:

The conference only efficiency numbers are pointless unless they are adjusted. The conference two years ago isn't even in the same stratosphere as the past two seasons. 

“Pointless” is strong — they tell me much more than W/L record in conference, given the unbalanced schedule. And I’m not sure adjusting would change rank much — if anything, this year’s team likely wouldn’t given 3 of its 9 wins were against the two worst teams by far, and 5/9 against the bottom 3 teams.

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“Pointless” is strong — they tell me much more than W/L record in conference, given the unbalanced schedule. And I’m not sure adjusting would change rank much — if anything, this year’s team likely wouldn’t given 3 of its 9 wins were against the two worst teams by far, and 5/9 against the bottom 3 teams.

If you are comparing year to year, raw efficiency numbers are pointless because it doesn’t take into account the strength of your opponents.


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Archie was hired to build back up a proud and historic program that has been 4th in its own state in wins and winning percentage over the last 20 years. Around 45th overall. Closer to Kansas St then Kansas. It is what it is. This is where IU is. He will either keep progressing and keep moving the program forward or he won’t and it will be up to the next coach to try and change the narrative of where this program actually is


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4 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:


If you are comparing year to year, raw efficiency numbers are pointless because it doesn’t take into account the strength of your opponents.


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Okay sure but I was comparing *rank of conference-only efficiency number among a 14 team league,* not raw numbers, so that doesn’t apply

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If a student gets an F on a test, then gets a D, then a C, yes that's improvement.  But can you ever expect that student to become an A student?  I want so much more for Indiana basketball 

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Guess no response to that... never is because they know the truth...

 

 

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Why respond to something you have said 1 million times before and something I’ve responded to 1 million times before. What gets accomplished by me responding again? You think college basketball is trash and I think it’s awesome... I know the truth... nothing will change your view and nothing is definitely going to change my view.

 

 

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Why respond to something you have said 1 million times before and something I’ve responded to 1 million times before. What gets accomplished by me responding again? You think college basketball is trash and I think it’s awesome... I know the truth... nothing will change your view and nothing is definitely going to change my view.
 
 
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Literally no one said it’s trash. You just can’t comprehend that quality goes up and from season to season. It didn’t just get better and better and better.


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Literally no one said it’s trash. You just can’t comprehend that quality goes up and down from season to season. It didn’t just get better and better and better.

 

 

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I edited it and added down for you

 

 

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Archie was hired to build back up a proud and historic program that has been 4th in its own state in wins and winning percentage over the last 20 years. Around 45th overall. Closer to Kansas St then Kansas. It is what it is. This is where IU is. He will either keep progressing and keep moving the program forward or he won’t and it will be up to the next coach to try and change the narrative of where this program actually is

 

 

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That’s your narrative and expectations. That is not what Fred Glass detailed as the expectations that explained the firing of Tom Crean. In my opinion it’s untruthful to what the actual proposed expectations are.

 

All of what you said is true. We’ve been bad for a long time. BUT we pay the coach at a scale to perform better. We, as a fan base support at a top notch level. We recruit at a rate to be better (granted I’m admittedly rarely happy with recruiting results). Fred Glass expected more. There is no reason to say to ourselves, we’ve sucked for a long time, we should be happy with any success. People in any industry don’t succeed at the highest levels with that mindset.

 

I’m realistic. I know IU football will never be top dog. Too many hurdles. Money, history, support, etc,etc,etc. BUT IUBB doesn’t have those hurdles. We are still regarded as a top producing, earning, and storied program by everyone. We pay top recruiting dollars (maybe not enough under the table). We act and say we want to be a top program. That is the expectation.

 

Now, the big question is when? For me it was always expected year 3 or 4 and going forward. Depending on recruiting one n done type talent or building them up. Archie appears to have a slower approach. Next year is a big year. Maybe the results start meeting the stated expectations when he was hired.

 

 

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Say Archie has the team top 4-6 in conference next season then in year 5+ we are consistently in the “competing” in the conference and nationally. I don’t think many people will be upset about the first few years at that point.

It’s pretty simple, you either think Archie can get it done or not. The trend hasn’t been as steep as I’d like it. However, if we win a handful more games next season and have a solid returning core to pair with a strong 2021 class (Kaufman, Aminu, etc.) I’ll feel pretty good about being in stable ground.


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