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Class of '66 Old Fart

Coronavirus and Its Impact

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28 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

They did already they are called emergency powers that governors and Mayors already have. They don’t need a new law there is already a law. 
 

Which was done specifically because the legislative process is too slow to react to emergencies. 
 

I honestly can’t tell if you are trolling or just this partisan. 
 

It’s kind of funny even after most Republican leaders are saying to wear masks and people still are still trying to hold to the masks are bad narrative 

We have been dealing with the chit for 5 months.  Plenty of time for legislatures to take appropriate action.  Emergency powers aren't for an unlimited time.  I am neither a troll or partisan.  But what are you?  

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11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

My wife works at a med school.  She literally knows hundreds of medical doctors.  Not a single one is against wearing masks or thinks they are unhelpful in this situation. 

Except Dr. Fauci.  

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Look masks are what they are.  No more, no less.  But truth be told, wearing a mask alone outside is stupid.  Not wearing a mask in your house next to your immune compromised 80 year old grandmother is stupid as well.  Yet the powers that be tell us to wear a mask when outside and not in our homes.  They are clueless.  Unlike most, I believe the American people are smart enough to make proper decisions when given truthful information.   

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7 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Yet the powers that be tell us to wear a mask when outside and not in our homes.

https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/files/IN_COVID-19 masks 07.23.20.pdf

Public indoor spaces and commercial entities

While using public transportation or other vehicle services such as a taxi or ride share

Outdoor public spaces when it’s not possible to socially distance from people not in the same household

12 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Except Dr. Fauci.  

"We have to admit it, that that mixed message in the beginning, even though it was well meant to allow masks to be available for health workers, that was detrimental in getting the message across," Fauci said in an interview with Mary Louise Kelly of NPR's All Things Considered. "No doubt about it."

17 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

mergency powers aren't for an unlimited time.

I completely agree. That is the reason why the exectuvie has been able to have perpetual war since 2001 and through three presidents. However, I don't think four months into a pandemic and a rise in infection rate is "unlimited time. 

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2 minutes ago, Chips&Dipo said:

https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/files/IN_COVID-19 masks 07.23.20.pdf

Public indoor spaces and commercial entities

While using public transportation or other vehicle services such as a taxi or ride share

Outdoor public spaces when it’s not possible to socially distance from people not in the same household

 

Yet the media continues to shame people not wearing masks when social distanced walking down the street.  Heck there is even a video posted a few pages earlier of some guys approaching people about masks even though they are sitting/walking alone.  Why does my neighbor mow is lawn wearing a mask?  

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1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

Yet the media continues to shame people not wearing masks when social distanced walking down the street.  Heck there is even a video posted a few pages earlier of some guys approaching people about masks even though they are sitting/walking alone.  Why does my neighbor mow is lawn wearing a mask?  

Some people wear masks when they mow the lawn because of allergies. Why don't you ask them? Also, why do you care he/she is wearing a mask when they mow?

I apparently don't watch as much news as you because the only people I see shamed for not wearing masks are the people that refuse to wear them (including that video a few pages ago) and are making intellectually dishonest or misinformed arguments about masks to justify their rebellion.

I went to a museum last Sunday. When I was outside and not around people, I didn't wear my mask. When I came into close contact with people or went inside, I wore my mask. I didn't get shamed by anybody for doing that. I didn't get yelled at by staff. 

What type of conversation are we having? Are you arguing that masks aren't effective in slowing the spread? Because all the academic literature and science say it does. Are you arguing that the government is being to hard on the mask mandate and "tell[ing] us to wear a mask when outside and not in our homes"? Because I showed you that isn't true. Now you are saying that the media is guilt tripping people to wear masks? If they are, I haven't seen it and would suggest that you follow the guidance that those that know have shared with us and not twitter (that is a good rule for everything).

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9 minutes ago, Chips&Dipo said:

What type of conversation are we having? Are you arguing that masks aren't effective in slowing the spread? Because all the academic literature and science say it does. Are you arguing that the government is being to hard on the mask mandate and "tell[ing] us to wear a mask when outside and not in our homes"? Because I showed you that isn't true. Now you are saying that the media is guilt tripping people to wear masks? If they are, I haven't seen it and would suggest that you follow the guidance that those that know have shared with us and not twitter (that is a good rule for everything).

I'm sorry, but this isn't exactly true. I know they have changed the narrative, but in May, this appeared on the CDC website:

“Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene
and face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these
measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of
laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the
effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We
identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most
fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person
transmission.”

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52 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Only very early on, not now.

Yeah still trying to trot him out is literally saying you would rather listen to an ignorant person that agrees with you over an informed person that doesn’t. 
 

He said what he said before we understood asymptomatic transmission and in the midst of a ppe shortage. 

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1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

We have been dealing with the chit for 5 months.  Plenty of time for legislatures to take appropriate action.  Emergency powers aren't for an unlimited time.  I am neither a troll or partisan.  But what are you?  

I’m a person who listens to people with 30 years of research on topics.  
 

And point of order no this has been ongoing for 5 months. We haven’t been doing much of anything for those 5 months. 

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4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m a person who listens to people with 30 years of research on topics.  
 

And point of order no this has been ongoing for 5 months. We haven’t been doing much of anything for those 5 months. 

People marched on state capitols with rifles when they couldn't get haircuts, that's something.

Oh, you mean to slow the spread.  We've tried arguing against scientists and people with expertise in the field, but that's about it.

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Just now, JSHoosier said:

People marched on state capitols with rifles when they couldn't get haircuts, that's something.

Oh, you mean to slow the spread.  We've tried arguing against scientists and people with expertise in the field, but that's about it.

Don’t forget not testing that was brilliant 

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32 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I'm sorry, but this isn't exactly true. I know they have changed the narrative, but in May, this appeared on the CDC website:

“Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene
and face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these
measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of
laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the
effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We
identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most
fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person
transmission.”

Also from the CDC updated last on June 28th (below).  So the update from early May is that asymptomatic people can transmit.  I really won’t argue something said almost 3 months ago.  Science changes daily and for the better.  If we are cherry-picking things said months ago it’s to prove a point that isn’t based on science.  Hell 30 years ago seat belts were optional because there wasn’t a widely held belief they really helped that much.  Studies and science proved that wrong.  You don’t hear people arguing today they don’t need to wear one because someone said 30 years ago they don’t help.  Hell anyone 35 and under didn’t typically sit in car seats when they were younger.  Science and understandings change.  Every day we learn so much more about this thing.  It doesn’t matter who is right and wrong.  I just hope we all do our part so we can enjoy living very soon.  

From the CDC (updated June 28th):

COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice (e.g., while shouting, chanting, or singing). These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Recent studies show that a significant portion of individuals with COVID-19 lack symptoms (are “asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (are “pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.

Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others. Wearing a cloth face covering will help protect people around you, including those at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19 and workers who frequently come into close contact with other people (e.g., in stores and restaurants). Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html#recent-studies

There is a link to their citation of recent studies that made this update along with the CDC providing an overview.  

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2 minutes ago, bigrod said:

And yet, we still haven't been told the rate of false positives on this test.

CDC admits antibody test is not specific for COVID-19.  Just Coronavirus and family.  That’s not great science.  Why no questions about this?  No one cares how many cases this could account for?  

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9 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

CDC admits antibody test is not specific for COVID-19.  Just Coronavirus and family.  That’s not great science.  Why no questions about this?  No one cares how many cases this could account for?  

Pretty sure the deaths are what people care about. The dead people aren’t being tested for antibodies. 

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Just now, mdn82 said:

 Science changes daily and for the better.  

Thank you.  That's the point.  We only know what we think we know.  Early on Fauci says masks don't help.  Now the science indicates, maybe they do.  And after this is all over, I'll be the science will say something else.  Those of us who have been around for a while have seen this play out -- this will kill you, wait, no it won't, wait, it's actually beneficial, etc. etc. etc.  

So do we really want to arrest, punish, or fine people who don't wear a mask, social distance, choose to keep their business open based on science that changes daily.  I don't.  And if we do, I certainly want my elected representatives to debate the issue and pass a freaking law.  

A better approach is to educate people about how this thing spreads, tell them what actions are appropriate in certain situations, and let the people figure it out.  You alone, and nobody else, can prevent yourself from catching the virus.

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