Coronavirus and Its Impact

[Golfman25 4,590]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Wearing a mask, washing your hands and socially distancing is not life altering. 

Shutting down an economy and closing schools is.  

[RaceToTheTop 23,458]

35 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Shutting down an economy and closing schools is.  

....and if people did what they were asked to do, then the dragging on of restrictions and school closing would have been kept to the minimum.  

It's like lighting a match under paper and then complaining that the paper is burning.  Sure, you're free to light the match.  But there are consequences.

[RaceToTheTop 23,458]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

That is correct.  And exactly why making life altering decisions based on "the science" needs to be tempered a bit.  

I'll take science over whims which is what our national strategy has been. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,458]

39 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Shutting down an economy and closing schools is.  

So I take it you don't think we should have even shutdown or closed schools in March?

I'll take life altering over life ending any day of the week.

[Brass Cannon 24,062]

4 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Shutting down an economy and closing schools is.  

If people had worn masks, washed their hands and socially distanced a shut down wouldn’t have been necessary.  
 

But it was much more important to assert freedom by being selfish for a lot of people. Still is in fact. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,458]

The IHME has consistently underprojected the number of deaths (at the beginning of May they projected 130,000 deaths by the end of August, a total that was passed in early July).  They are projecting 224,000 deaths by the end of November.

[JSHoosier 19,529]

7 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

Shutting down an economy and closing schools is.  

So are the other consequences of this virus like heart damage and clots which can cause strokes, not to mention cases of neurological damage; it's not dead or 100% fine, there are related issues to consider.  If we took this seriously from the beginning and listened to advice we wouldn't be in this mess.

[bigrod 2,779]

3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

If people had worn masks, washed their hands and socially distanced a shut down wouldn’t have been necessary.  
 

But it was much more important to assert freedom by being selfish for a lot of people. Still is in fact. 

You can't seriously believe this, can you? All we are really doing making this last longer than any other virus in history.

Also, there is plenty of actual science out there that does indeed say that wearing a mask is doing more harm than good.

[tomallenfan 120]

You can't seriously believe this, can you? All we are really doing making this last longer than any other virus in history.
Also, there is plenty of actual science out there that does indeed say that wearing a mask is doing more harm than good.

I am sick and tired of reading this uneducated buffoonery. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds of studies out there already that prove that masks are vital to stopping this virus spread.

Have you noticed that other countries, with a higher population density, required masks and have now virtually rid the virus from their borders? I guess that isn’t enough to make you at least question your “actual science” that you get from memes on Facebook.

[Brass Cannon 24,062]

38 minutes ago, bigrod said:

You can't seriously believe this, can you? All we are really doing making this last longer than any other virus in history.

Also, there is plenty of actual science out there that does indeed say that wearing a mask is doing more harm than good.

How exactly will not wearing masks make this end sooner?  There are good indications that we can’t achieve herd immunity. So letting it go rampant for a few months isn’t a viable solution. 

[ray 1,559]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:08 PM, Golfman25 said:

Their business, their rules.  No problem with that.  (But it's kind of hard to eat with a mask on :) )  

As far as everyone on board, I think you're generally seeing the vast majority comply with mask wearing.  The news reports want to gin up controversy so they always get the picture of the one dude without a mask.  Kind of like heading to the trailer park after a storm to show the "damage."  

May I ask a sincere question to better read your comment?  Why are quotation marks used around the word damage?  Wouldn't damage to a trailer park caused by a storm still be damage, or is it somehow not of concern because it was a trailer park? 

Perhaps you had no intention of implying people in trailer parks (or their homes) are of lesser significance, which quite frankly is how I interpreted it, and instead you meant to point to the fact news that bleeds is still of primary importance to news outlets.  If so, then I agree that news outlets focus on the negative and rarely discuss the good happening in our world.  If this was not your intended message, then I completely disagree that damage to a mobile home is of lesser importance...and I would likely even argue that the damage to a mobile home may be of greater importance due to the potential financial difficulties for some of those residents to bounce back from such an unfortunate event.

[JSHoosier 19,529]

Wearing a mask in the middle of a pandemic that has killed over 130k Americans has become political, unbelievable.  At the same time our "leadership" wants to separate from organizations with expertise in this area.  Insane.

If masks work you're potentially saving a life, if they don't you're only out a minor inconvenience.

[bigrod 2,779]

4 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Wearing a mask in the middle of a pandemic that has killed over 130k Americans has become political, unbelievable.  At the same time our "leadership" wants to separate from organizations with expertise in this area.  Insane.

If masks work you're potentially saving a life, if they don't you're only out a minor inconvenience.

First of all, we don't really know if that 130k number is correct. It is based on a bad test with unknown validity. If you don't know the rate of false positives, you are not getting good data. Crap in-crap out. Secondly, how many people die from the flu every year? If this was not in our face every single day, do you really think anyone would know there was a new virus? There are many new/mutated viruses every single year - that is how they survive.

There are many studies that show that wearing a mask does nothing but break down your own immune system, making you more susceptible to said virus, or anything else. One of the major ways humans rid their own waste is through exhalation. I'm not making this up, it is science. So you are not getting enough oxygen because of the mask, which isn't good for your immune system. You are not able to get rid of your own waste, so you continue to breathe it, which isn't good for your immune system. Not only that, but the mask starts to break down after a few hours, so now you are breathing plastics and fibers into your system. How many people wear the same mask day after day.  Shouldn't it be disposed of in a hazardous waste container?

There are plenty of videos out there showing that within seconds of putting on a mask, your oxygen level is well below OSHA set limits and your carbon dioxide is in toxic limits. Personally, I didn't believe this when I saw it, so we actually did these tests where I work. Within seconds, people being tested were around 14.5% oxygen (OSHA says 19.5% is the low limit), and their carbon dioxide was well above the 5000 ppm OSHA toxic limit. We couldn't tell what it was because it was higher than the 10,000 limit of our gauge. So we are supposed to make our people wear masks which put us in violation of OSHA standards.

All of this because, even though I feel great and rarely get sick, I may potentially be carrying a virus that may potentially infect someone else that may potentially get inside my 6 ft perimeter for a virus with a <0.5% IFR. I guess to some, this makes sense.

[Golfman25 4,590]

1 hour ago, ray said:

May I ask a sincere question to better read your comment?  Why are quotation marks used around the word damage?  Wouldn't damage to a trailer park caused by a storm still be damage, or is it somehow not of concern because it was a trailer park? 

Perhaps you had no intention of implying people in trailer parks (or their homes) are of lesser significance, which quite frankly is how I interpreted it, and instead you meant to point to the fact news that bleeds is still of primary importance to news outlets.  If so, then I agree that news outlets focus on the negative and rarely discuss the good happening in our world.  If this was not your intended message, then I completely disagree that damage to a mobile home is of lesser importance...and I would likely even argue that the damage to a mobile home may be of greater importance due to the potential financial difficulties for some of those residents to bounce back from such an unfortunate event.

Dude to read too much into it.  A strong fart can cause damage a mobile trailer.  That's the point.  They are trying to show how "powerful" the storm was by showing the one structure that can't withstand significant wind speeds.  It also applies to the gas station coverings and signs that always seem to get blown down with even the mildest storms.  More to the point, they are giving a false picture on how bad the storm was.  

This video always comes to mind:   

 

[JSHoosier 19,529]

30 minutes ago, bigrod said:

First of all, we don't really know if that 130k number is correct. It is based on a bad test with unknown validity. If you don't know the rate of false positives, you are not getting good data. Crap in-crap out. Secondly, how many people die from the flu every year? If this was not in our face every single day, do you really think anyone would know there was a new virus? There are many new/mutated viruses every single year - that is how they survive.

There are many studies that show that wearing a mask does nothing but break down your own immune system, making you more susceptible to said virus, or anything else. One of the major ways humans rid their own waste is through exhalation. I'm not making this up, it is science. So you are not getting enough oxygen because of the mask, which isn't good for your immune system. You are not able to get rid of your own waste, so you continue to breathe it, which isn't good for your immune system. Not only that, but the mask starts to break down after a few hours, so now you are breathing plastics and fibers into your system. How many people wear the same mask day after day.  Shouldn't it be disposed of in a hazardous waste container?

There are plenty of videos out there showing that within seconds of putting on a mask, your oxygen level is well below OSHA set limits and your carbon dioxide is in toxic limits. Personally, I didn't believe this when I saw it, so we actually did these tests where I work. Within seconds, people being tested were around 14.5% oxygen (OSHA says 19.5% is the low limit), and their carbon dioxide was well above the 5000 ppm OSHA toxic limit. We couldn't tell what it was because it was higher than the 10,000 limit of our gauge. So we are supposed to make our people wear masks which put us in violation of OSHA standards.

All of this because, even though I feel great and rarely get sick, I may potentially be carrying a virus that may potentially infect someone else that may potentially get inside my 6 ft perimeter for a virus with a <0.5% IFR. I guess to some, this makes sense.

Flu is around 12-61k a year since 2010, according to the CDC.  Not even close to what we're seeing now.

The next time you're in the hospital, tell the doctors and nurses not to wear masks since they don't work.  I've even seen them wear homemade cloth masks.  You shouldn't be worried, since you're so adamant they don't work and are just a negative.

The Department of Labor has said OSHA has made no determination if masks impact oxygen level.  Some of what you posed sounds like some of the crap that circulated social media and was fact checked false.

[bigrod 2,779]

24 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

Flu is around 12-61k a year since 2010, according to the CDC.  Not even close to what we're seeing now.

The next time you're in the hospital, tell the doctors and nurses not to wear masks since they don't work.  I've even seen them wear homemade cloth masks.  You shouldn't be worried, since you're so adamant they don't work and are just a negative.

The Department of Labor has said OSHA has made no determination if masks impact oxygen level.  Some of what you posed sounds like some of the crap that circulated social media and was fact checked false.

So, I should tell doctors not to use masks for what they were actually designed for? That is your argument? They were designed to keep contaminants from open wounds. They were not designed for virus protection. They stop a virus like a chain link fence stops a fly.

Maybe to you the OSHA argument "sounds" like a bunch of crap, but maybe you should check into it for yourself. Or just continue to let the media tell you what to think.

So let me ask you this: If we have had time to do studies to do a 180 on the first determination that masks served no useful purpose, to now they are lifesavers, why have we not had time to determine the validity of the PCR test. Why does the public not know how many false positives this test is producing? How can you possibly trust a test when you have no idea what it is giving you? Why have they not had time to isolate the virus?

These have always been among the very first steps in the past, so why have the "experts" decided this is not necessary? Isn't this what the "experts" are supposed to be doing? Why are we continuing to believe them instead of holding them accountable?

[Banksyrules 4,221]

9 minutes ago, bigrod said:

So, I should tell doctors not to use masks for what they were actually designed for? That is your argument? They were designed to keep contaminants from open wounds. They were not designed for virus protection. They stop a virus like a chain link fence stops a fly.

Maybe to you the OSHA argument "sounds" like a bunch of crap, but maybe you should check into it for yourself. Or just continue to let the media tell you what to think.

So let me ask you this: If we have had time to do studies to do a 180 on the first determination that masks served no useful purpose, to now they are lifesavers, why have we not had time to determine the validity of the PCR test. Why does the public not know how many false positives this test is producing? How can you possibly trust a test when you have no idea what it is giving you? Why have they not had time to isolate the virus?

These have always been among the very first steps in the past, so why have the "experts" decided this is not necessary? Isn't this what the "experts" are supposed to be doing? Why are we continuing to believe them instead of holding them accountable?

I have asthma and multiple surgeries with my lungs. I wear a mask and I’m fine. You’ll be fine too.  Also look at Hong Kong. 97% wear a mask in public , and they’re more worried about mainland china taking over their rights than the Corona virus.  I can’t believe this has to be political. 

[JSHoosier 19,529]

1 minute ago, bigrod said:

So, I should tell doctors not to use masks for what they were actually designed for? That is your argument? They were designed to keep contaminants from open wounds. They were not designed for virus protection. They stop a virus like a chain link fence stops a fly.

Maybe to you the OSHA argument "sounds" like a bunch of crap, but maybe you should check into it for yourself. Or just continue to let the media tell you what to think.

So let me ask you this: If we have had time to do studies to do a 180 on the first determination that masks served no useful purpose, to now they are lifesavers, why have we not had time to determine the validity of the PCR test. Why does the public not know how many false positives this test is producing? How can you possibly trust a test when you have no idea what it is giving you? Why have they not had time to isolate the virus?

These have always been among the very first steps in the past, so why have the "experts" decided this is not necessary? Isn't this what the "experts" are supposed to be doing? Why are we continuing to believe them instead of holding them accountable?

Hospital workers wear masks around patients with things like the flu, I've seen it first hand.  Not all of them use N95 either.  Even the Department of Labor has said OSHA has made no determination on if masks impact oxygen level, how is that me thinking it "sounds like a bunch of crap"?  No, I don't let the media tell me what to think I'm quite capable of thinking for myself; I also realize I don't know everything and in situations like this know I should consider the recommendations of people with expertise in the field.

No one has ever said wearing a mask is a lifesaver, it's just one step of multiple that people should be taking to help reduce the spread.  As far as testing, why don't you ask the doctors?

[Brass Cannon 24,062]

Interesting logic. The mask blocks oxygen but supposedly not Covid.  Despite oxygen particles being significantly smaller 

[Chips&Dipo 1,448]

"WE DON'T WANT THE COUNTRY TO SHUTDOWN!"

"Nobody does, but we can reopen if we wear a mask and practice social distancing to slow the spread, protect vulnerable populations, and not overcrowd our hospitals."

"I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT EITHER!"