Coronavirus and Its Impact

[RaceToTheTop 23,571]

Sad day for me today.  Had to go in to the school I teach at and pick up my book cards so the school can inventory them.  To do so, we had to sign up for times and only a certain number of people were allowed to be in the building at once.  I was by myself and it was really sad to see the empty school building and my empty classroom, especially knowing I never got to see my seniors after March 13th.  

This is a one off post for me and really not meant to spark political discussion/discussion on how we should move forward with coronavirus.

[Napleshoosier 9,781]

Just found out one of my neighbor buddies died from this crap. Last I heard his wife called me and said he got a lot better and they were moving him from ICU to a regular room. Just earlier saw his obituary on the internet. He died April 10 from this crap. Cruise! Great guy. 82. Loved life. He would come over and play craps. We’d play Bouchie ball together. In pretty darn good health. Two of us told him to please not do the cruise but he and his wife did. She got it too but recovered fast. He didn’t! I’m so pissed at the Chinese I can’t see straight. Those sorry POS !


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[Stuhoo 75,560]

32 minutes ago, Napleshoosier said:

Just found out one of my neighbor buddies died from this crap. Last I heard his wife called me and said he got a lot better and they were moving him from ICU to a regular room. Just earlier saw his obituary on the internet. He died April 10 from this crap. Cruise! Great guy. 82. Loved life. He would come over and play craps. We’d play Bouchie ball together. In pretty darn good health. Two of us told him to please not do the cruise but he and his wife did. She got it too but recovered fast. He didn’t! I’m so pissed at the Chinese I can’t see straight. Those sorry POS !


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So sorry Naples - very sad news.

 

[jk34 1,105]

1 hour ago, Napleshoosier said:

Just found out one of my neighbor buddies died from this crap. Last I heard his wife called me and said he got a lot better and they were moving him from ICU to a regular room. Just earlier saw his obituary on the internet. He died April 10 from this crap. Cruise! Great guy. 82. Loved life. He would come over and play craps. We’d play Bouchie ball together. In pretty darn good health. Two of us told him to please not do the cruise but he and his wife did. She got it too but recovered fast. He didn’t! I’m so pissed at the Chinese I can’t see straight. Those sorry POS !


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Sorry to hear! Prayers brother!

[Old Friend 8,389]

6 hours ago, Redleader said:

Agree with you wholeheartedly.  Absolutely it's all entertainment.  I've spent 23 years listening to Limbaugh, Levin, Ingraham, Savage, Neil Boortz, Greg Garrison, Mike Pence sub in for garrison, Andy Katz.  Hannity not so much, just style issues really.   Levin is my favorite, because of the Larry David like personality.  He usually has solid analysis to back up his claim.  No liberal analogues cause they all suck at radio and making coherent arguments.

Maddow is all propaganda.  All networks are.  They are more overt now.  Fox was funner to watch when the bias was more subtle.

I have not heard of Knowhere.  I'll check it out.  Thank you for that.

Chuck Schumer and Pelosi have been horrific.  What have they done so far?  Sniped from the sidelines and complain that Mitch stole their toy again?  I saw the weakness and lack of compass in the left long ago.  They have not gotten any better over the years.  They lost to Donald Trump.  Let that sink in.  Literally put forward the only candidate that could have lost.  Worst candidate since McCain.

I already get my information from reading.  Mostly what Drudge curates for me.  I don't watch "news" any more, because I refuse to be anyone's leming.

I'm sorry that pointed out that I thought your opinions mirror what is coming from what I believe to be right wing propagandists.  I've spent a lot hours absorbing it over the years and call them like I seem them.  Looks like I could be wrong.

The tragic American governmental response (right, left, state, fed) confirms what I have believed for a few years now.

None of the politicians give a damn about us.  They have reached the equivalent of the MLB, NBA, or NFL in their field.  They are all playing for that next contract.  It's all perpetuating their personal enrichment.  Millions to come after with board appointments, speaking gigs, and consulting fees.  By the way, they are only entertainers anymore.  The waste of time Impeachment trial proved that.

 

 

Thank you.  You don't know how much I appreciate this.  On about every level.  Thank you.  Sincerely.

[Old Friend 8,389]

4 hours ago, Redleader said:

Sorry for the political slant.  Glad you pushed back.  I responded to your post with more detail, and tried to bring a little more than a cheap swipe:

Since you don't even know what drug it was, I doubt you're really interested in dialogue about it and instead favor your politics   I also doubt you're interested in the truth because you strike me as yet one more guy who doesn't come here for any reason other than to stir the pot.  I love guys like you.  You're easy    The crickets after the post you MEANT to grab are deafening, and I'm very happy to shove this across the table at YOU, too.

Sorry for the Crickets after the post.  Really busy right now working in manufacturing. I am very blessed, and have not had the time to devote to a proper response.  Poor form on my part.  Again, sorry for the laziness.  I am now in front of a laptop, and not a phone on the side, the other hand is untied from behind my back, and you now have my focus.  

Got me on the incorrect spelling of the drug, I let autocorrect drive on that one.  Guilty as charged.

Quackery.  That's cute. I do love (and you people are very consistent) the labels and complete dismissal of information and people you don't agree with because your media tells you it's....quackery.  Like I said....cute.

Another good point.  It is a “cute” word.  Its very catchy and sort of maddowy, and gives off the feeling that the subject is ridiculous.  Better choice next time.

Since you asked (and I bet this isn't what you meant to imply with your divisive and condescending tone) :  HCQ in its design breaks down a cellular barrier and lets zinc into the cell.  Zinc is being utilized in every therapy being trialed at this point.  Some examples of  "how it turned out? "  : HCQ is being used at Yale, there is a randomized trial ongoing at Henry Ford  Health System in Detroit,  St. Francis Network in NY, Orange County network in NY, it's prescribed for every COVID patient in Turkey and has been shown to either slow or eliminate ICU admissions.  A large doctor's group in Brazil posted a study over the weekend showing HCQ helped 91.6% of COVID patients, Dr. Michael Robb and Dr. Jane Orient, leaders in the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons said TODAY "We believe there is clear and convincing evidence of benefit both pre and post exposure (of use of HCQ)," meaning it may also be a prophylactic.  Its being used successfully for the first time with older patients at a nursing home in Texas.  Early adoption of HCQ in Italian hospitals showed unequivocal earlier release from hospitals compared to those who didn't receive it.  It was used in a trial in New Brisnwick, CA with 118 patients. All 118 recovered.  No deaths.  No ICU admissions.

 Do you need MORE examples of "how it turned out?"    And surely you could have looked all of this up yourself, but it's just easier (and lazier and more predictable) to make fun of data your media won't give you.   You really should look this stuff up, though.  It's fun to learn accuracy instead of parroting.  Cute word though.  I like "quackery."  But if you want the REAL truth?  Read this.  COVID is a SARS virus.  In 2005 Dr. Fauci and others were very high on HCQ. Now?  It's Remdisavir.  You can draw your own conclusions, right?   https://www.dropbox.com/s/hy4zovox820vmpu/3G13018 50 micron.docx?dl=0

Great summary of some very detailed information.  I hope it works.  Your right, cheap shot, and bad on me for assuming that this was dead in the water and to have not followed the rest of the story.  Thank you for opening my eyes.  I'll take some time with these names and places and bring myself back up to speed.

I don’t understand the Dropbox thing still.  Do you care to enlighten me?  It has some graphs and stuff but I am not sure what is proving.

Sources?  Immunologists.  You think politicians are just opening things up because they feel like it?  How dumb are you?   Seriously....it's like you people just read what the media tells you and regurgitate it.  Think for yourself.  Try it.  Just one time.  What disinformation are you speaking of?  Why do I KNOW it's really "information you don't have" or information you don't agree with.    What else ya' got?

I thought the decreased immunity claim came from the Bakersfield physicians.  Are you speaking of your circle of friends when you say immunologists?  I am honestly asking because google searches of “immunity decreased” along with “shelter in place” or “quarantine” are coming up empty.  I would like to know more and can not find any information that says one way or the other.

I think politicians are opening up based upon a calculation of how many deaths are acceptable over a period of time weighed against all of the needs and wants of the entire states population not being met during this “shutdown” period.  It’s a terrible, unenviable decision for a leader to have to make.

There were guidelines for opening up that were published by the CDC.  States seem to be adopting those in varying degree.  Why can’t these guidelines be made mandatory and everyone follows the same standard?

Everyone seems to agree that monitoring as places open up and pulling back if there is an outbreak is a good idea.

What is the standard for making these decisions? 

In my mind it is deaths/period of time vs certain needs and wants met. 

The big moral question is what is/are the proper threshold(s)?

I don’t see a standard.  That is why we are debating in your case and swiping in mine.  There is a vacuum of leadership at the Federal level.  How many times has this phrase been uttered in the last 30 years?  This isn’t a right/left issue to me.  This is a freaking problem.  We are absolutely rudderless in Congress and the White House.  Tell us what to do and we will do it.  We are Americans, we can conquer anything, but we need a direction to pull in.

I don’t like the argument of saying that people are going to die if we continue to follow the isolation guidelines.  It makes it seem like it is a one-to-one give and take of folks perishing.  We can and should put every effort towards supporting those who are in abusive, suicidal, medical, shelter, and food need right now situations.  Moratorium on evictions or foreclosures.  Stop all mortgage and rent payments.  US, landlords, or employers pony up.

But putting forth the argument that people are suffering, and we can’t let them suffer, so we need to open up because someone is going to die anyways, seems to lack nuance.  It frames the argument in an either/or choice when that is not the case.  We can do other things while we are isolated to support our neighbors from a corporate, community, government, and personal perspective. 

I put my stake in the ground on waiting until we have better a better handle on all of these issues, to make such grave decisions. But I am conservative by nature.

Thank you again for THIS one.  And again...you don't know how much I appreciate it.   To tell you it's refreshing would be insulting.  It's far more, and it is appreciated.   The Dropbox article is sort of complicated, and it's....got a slant to it I admittedly don't care for; but have a hard time ignoring.   And it's polar opposite from anything you'd find on Fox.  (And I just clicked it....for whatever reason, it may have been the wrong link.  No WONDER you were confused.  That appears to be link to a polyester film.    Sorry about that.)

Anyway, what it was SUPPOSED to be is a link to an article from 2005.  At that time, the SARS virus was the disease of the day, and HCQ was used in some treatments.  Dr. Fauci supported it then.  SARS stands for "severe acute respiratory syndrome."  COVID-19 is "Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Cov-2."  COVID stands for Corona Virus Disease.   SARS was also a COVID.    Circling back...    Dr. Fauci and hundreds if not thousands of others supported HCQ as an effective, minimizing treatment of SARS in the early 2000's, so logically?  They should support it, now.  Except (and this is where I feel nauseous even making this point, which is why I above said you can draw your own conclusions) it costs about $0.06 cents to make.  I hate even saying this because I am the anti-conspiracy, but now that he (Fauci) came out in support of a very expensive infusion therapy (Remdisavir), it makes me wonder.  As they say, "follow the money."  I HATE even insinuating that, but the lack of support in some circles confuses me because there are indeed many places and physicians having success with it and articles/papers suggesting as much.  (I'll wait and see if Brass Cannon actually looks them up or pretends they don't exist because I won't do his homework for him)

I think I'll go shower now, having said that.   But again, seriously...thank you. Quackery was still cute.  I'm stealing it.

Finally, I agree 100% that there is a problem at the federal level.  In fact, I'll take it a step further.  Donald Trump was elected because this is a problem.  He is an outsider and not afraid to call a spade a spade.  Not afraid to get dirty.  I think he is unlikable from a personality standpoint and says a whole lot of stupid sh*t.  I think he's an egomaniac.  But....from a policy standpoint?  If I consider why he was elected, I can't argue much.  Jobs and manufacturing?  Check.  A little tougher on illegal immigration?  Check.  Far better on trade?  Check.  But he's a poor politician.  No surprise..he's NOT a politician, and thus has no idea how to play that game in a time of national crisis.  Not that I think any others would have DONE better, but most would have SOUNDED better.  I have always found it funny how Joe Biden has been in federal politics for 44 years (senate for 36 years, VP for 8) yet blames Trump for our problems.  It's comical.  Trump has not been smooth handling this, but he has gotten some things DONE.  What he did for NY and CA was flat impressive; but I wish he'd drop the self applause and save it for campaigning.   Biden is in the process of hanging himself...Trump doesn't have to say a word.   Two words that would solve almost everything at the federal level : Term limits

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,182]

Agree with you wholeheartedly.  Absolutely it's all entertainment.  I've spent 23 years listening to Limbaugh, Levin, Ingraham, Savage, Neil Boortz, Greg Garrison, Mike Pence sub in for garrison, Andy Katz.  Hannity not so much, just style issues really.   Levin is my favorite, because of the Larry David like personality.  He usually has solid analysis to back up his claim.  No liberal analogues cause they all suck at radio and making coherent arguments.
Maddow is all propaganda.  All networks are.  They are more overt now.  Fox was funner to watch when the bias was more subtle.
I have not heard of Knowhere.  I'll check it out.  Thank you for that.
Chuck Schumer and Pelosi have been horrific.  What have they done so far?  Sniped from the sidelines and complain that Mitch stole their toy again?  I saw the weakness and lack of compass in the left long ago.  They have not gotten any better over the years.  They lost to Donald Trump.  Let that sink in.  Literally put forward the only candidate that could have lost.  Worst candidate since McCain.
I already get my information from reading.  Mostly what Drudge curates for me.  I don't watch "news" any more, because I refuse to be anyone's leming.
I'm sorry that pointed out that I thought your opinions mirror what is coming from what I believe to be right wing propagandists.  I've spent a lot hours absorbing it over the years and call them like I seem them.  Looks like I could be wrong.
The tragic American governmental response (right, left, state, fed) confirms what I have believed for a few years now.
None of the politicians give a damn about us.  They have reached the equivalent of the MLB, NBA, or NFL in their field.  They are all playing for that next contract.  It's all perpetuating their personal enrichment.  Millions to come after with board appointments, speaking gigs, and consulting fees.  By the way, they are only entertainers anymore.  The waste of time Impeachment trial proved that.
 
 

Levin isn’t bad. I watch more Crowder, Shapiro, Knowles etc. I never watch cable news though. 1. I don’t have TV and 2. I think it’s awful.


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[Redleader 158]

https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/monroe-county-gets-new-covid-19-testing-site.php

Monroe County (IN) looks to have testing coming Mid May.  Thought I read that a prescription would not be required to get a test.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

South Korea is reopening. People are packing retailers baseball is restarting and things are getting back to normal suffering in total about 1/10 what we suffered yesterday. 
 

Crazy what competent leadership and quick action can accomplish. 
 

 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

 
Crazy what competent leadership and quick action can accomplish. 
 
 

That is quite the oversimplification of what really happened.

See:
More disciplined culture
Proximity to previous outbreaks
Unease towards the Chinese
Not the stupid ******* politics of the US


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[jk34 1,105]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

That is quite the oversimplification of what really happened.

See:
More disciplined culture
Proximity to previous outbreaks
Unease towards the Chinese
Not the stupid ******* politics of the US


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He doesn't get it!

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

23 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

That is quite the oversimplification of what really happened.

See:
More disciplined culture
Proximity to previous outbreaks
Unease towards the Chinese
Not the stupid ******* politics of the US


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More disciplined culture and proximity to previous outbreaks led to decisive action. But there was no rule that said only the South Koreans could learn that lesson.  Bush and Obama took those events and learned from them and tried to leave us prepared. 
 

Half this country has supported an economic war straight out of the 1800s on the Chinese for the last 18 months.  I think there was more than enough unease in the country towards the Chinese. 
 

And the stupid **** politics of the US was sorta what I was insulting. 
 

Id also say I’d bet South Koreans wouldnt call it more disciplined. More trusting of experts probably.  My father in law was assigned to be a translator to a manufacturing expert from the US back in the 60s in South Korea and people treated this guy like a god/celebrity. 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

 

10 minutes ago, jk34 said:

He doesn't get it!

One of the first people to see how big Covid was on this board who also has quite a bit of knowledge of South Korean culture “doesn’t get it”.  Yeah that makes a lot of sense.  
 

[jk34 1,105]

15 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

 

One of the first people to see how big Covid was on this board who also has quite a bit of knowledge of South Korean culture “doesn’t get it”.  Yeah that makes a lot of sense.  
 

Knowledge of South Korea culture is great! Blaming government is an en easy way out! Who do you blame . Federal, State, or local? 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

More disciplined culture and proximity to previous outbreaks led to decisive action. But there was no rule that said only the South Koreans could learn that lesson.  Bush and Obama took those events and learned from them and tried to leave us prepared. 
 
Half this country has supported an economic war straight out of the 1800s on the Chinese for the last 18 months.  I think there was more than enough unease in the country towards the Chinese. 
 
And the stupid **** politics of the US was sorta what I was insulting. 
 
Id also say I’d bet South Koreans wouldnt call it more disciplined. More trusting of experts probably.  My father in law was assigned to be a translator to a manufacturing expert from the US back in the 60s in South Korea and people treated this guy like a god/celebrity. 

More disciplined encompasses more than just discipline. I’ve lived in Korea twice. They tend to care for and look out for their fellow citizens more so than what we do in the US. There is a somewhat higher regard for experts but not an extreme high level in politicians. They are wary of political appointees at a similar level to the US. They just don’t have the crazy political BS we do.

Also, we’re half a world away from the Chinese so we don’t have the same level of unease. They’re a few hours flight capital to capital. Huge difference.


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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

28 minutes ago, jk34 said:

Knowledge of South Korea culture is great! Blaming government is an en easy way out! Who do you blame . Federal, State, or local? 

All?  Although most has to go to federal because local and state power has been eroded greatly in the last 80 years or so. 
 

To be more clear specifically technology has reduced how insular the states are now. Requiring more federal solutions. 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

More disciplined encompasses more than just discipline. I’ve lived in Korea twice. They tend to care for and look out for their fellow citizens more so than what we do in the US. There is a somewhat higher regard for experts but not an extreme high level in politicians. They are wary of political appointees at a similar level to the US. They just don’t have the crazy political BS we do.

Also, we’re half a world away from the Chinese so we don’t have the same level of unease. They’re a few hours flight capital to capital. Huge difference.


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Seems like we are agreeing. 

[Lebowski 1,843]

1 hour ago, jk34 said:

Knowledge of South Korea culture is great! Blaming government is an en easy way out! Who do you blame . Federal, State, or local? 

Science is exposing deficient and efficient leadership during this pandemic.  It's pretty easy to decide for yourself on how and who to 'blame' in this particular situation as science allows intelligent fact base outcomes.  Politics tends to make things gray but science doesn't allow that.  In other words, truth is hard to manipulate with this pandemic.  Also, I think the word 'blame' is probably the wrong word in this scenario.  I would use words like 'inept' or 'incompetent' to ask the question you're trying to ask.  Because, unless I'm mistaken, I think that was the point of Brass Cannon's post about South Korea.  I don't think anyone is blaming government for the pandemic, I could be wrong though.  For me, I currently don't have faith in the federal leadership based on what science is telling me.  But that's just me.   South Korea is the gold standard for this pandemic and we should learn from them.  

[Stuhoo 75,560]

4 hours ago, Lebowski said:

Science is exposing deficient and efficient leadership during this pandemic.  It's pretty easy to decide for yourself on how and who to 'blame' in this particular situation as science allows intelligent fact base outcomes.  Politics tends to make things gray but science doesn't allow that.  In other words, truth is hard to manipulate with this pandemic.  Also, I think the word 'blame' is probably the wrong word in this scenario.  I would use words like 'inept' or 'incompetent' to ask the question you're trying to ask.  Because, unless I'm mistaken, I think that was the point of Brass Cannon's post about South Korea.  I don't think anyone is blaming government for the pandemic, I could be wrong though.  For me, I currently don't have faith in the federal leadership based on what science is telling me.  But that's just me.   South Korea is the gold standard for this pandemic and we should learn from them.  

New Zealand and Canada have done a pretty excellent job too. 

And Iceland.

And Slovenia.

Smaller populations are easier to control, but it’s also easier to control when leadership is not in a constant state of divisiveness and political trolling IMO.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,182]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html


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