Coronavirus and Its Impact

[Magnanimous 4,399]

I haven’t been back in over a year. Any Bloomington locals able to provide an update on how some of the local favorites on Walnut, College and Kirkwood are holding up?

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

12 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I am stunned (well, not really) that anyone still thinks this way or would make this point.  It's like you haven't listened to any objective source, economist, or immunologist in your whole life; let alone in the last 10 days or so.   This is lazy and elementary.  Even for you.  (Can't wait for the reply that I'm always wrong.  Let's have it)

What a shock you provide 0 evidence of your claims. You talk about lazy but you provide nothing but petty insults.  
 

Talking about objective sources without linking to them is really just a sign they don’t exist. It’s the grown up version of “my dad said”. So congrats on using the same arguments as my 3 year old. She’s growing out of it, maybe you can too

And to help you since you are allergic to common sense you need to find an expert a credible expert. Ie not doctor Phil who is going to say that reopening the economy won’t increase the death total. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,957]

Will Weissert of the Associated Press -

WASHINGTON — U.S. officials believe China covered up the extent of the coronavirus outbreak — and how contagious the disease is — to stock up on medical supplies needed to respond to it, intelligence documents show.

Chinese leaders “intentionally concealed the severity” of the pandemic from the world in early January, according to a four-page Department of Homeland Security report dated May 1 and obtained by The Associated Press. The revelation comes as the Trump administration has intensified its criticism of China, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying Sunday that China was responsible for the spread of disease and must be held accountable.

The sharper rhetoric against China coincides with administration critics saying the government’s response to the virus was inadequate and slow. President Donald Trump’s political opponents have accused the president and his administration of lashing out at China, a geopolitical foe but critical U.S. trade partner, in an attempt to deflect criticism at home.

The analysis states that, while downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,” the analysis states.

The report also says China held off informing the World Health Organization that the coronavirus “was a contagion” for much of January so it could order medical supplies from abroad — and that its imports of face masks and surgical gowns and gloves increased sharply.

Those conclusions are based on the 95% probability that China’s changes in imports and export behavior were not within normal range, according to the report.

Trump has speculated that China could have unleashed the coronavirus due to some kind of horrible “mistake.” His intelligence agencies say they are still examining a notion put forward by the president and aides that the pandemic might have resulted from an accident at a Chinese lab.

Speaking Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Pompeo said he had no reason to believe that the virus was spread deliberately. But he added, “Remember, China has a history of infecting the world, and they have a history of running substandard laboratories.”

[Golfman25 4,664]

The fact remains that if you don't want to get infected, you don't have to.  Just stay inside away from people.  It's that simple.  

The rest of us can take calculated risks to move on with living, like we have done for the past 100+ years.    

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

11 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

The fact remains that if you don't want to get infected, you don't have to.  Just stay inside away from people.  

So your solution would be if I don’t want to get infected, I should just not show up at my job and collect unemployment?

i would assume you’ll agree that never leaving your house is not a reality for most of the known world.

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

15 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Will Weissert of the Associated Press -

WASHINGTON — U.S. officials believe China covered up the extent of the coronavirus outbreak — and how contagious the disease is — to stock up on medical supplies needed to respond to it, intelligence documents show.

Chinese leaders “intentionally concealed the severity” of the pandemic from the world in early January, according to a four-page Department of Homeland Security report dated May 1 and obtained by The Associated Press. The revelation comes as the Trump administration has intensified its criticism of China, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying Sunday that China was responsible for the spread of disease and must be held accountable.

The sharper rhetoric against China coincides with administration critics saying the government’s response to the virus was inadequate and slow. President Donald Trump’s political opponents have accused the president and his administration of lashing out at China, a geopolitical foe but critical U.S. trade partner, in an attempt to deflect criticism at home.

The analysis states that, while downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,” the analysis states.

The report also says China held off informing the World Health Organization that the coronavirus “was a contagion” for much of January so it could order medical supplies from abroad — and that its imports of face masks and surgical gowns and gloves increased sharply.

Those conclusions are based on the 95% probability that China’s changes in imports and export behavior were not within normal range, according to the report.

Trump has speculated that China could have unleashed the coronavirus due to some kind of horrible “mistake.” His intelligence agencies say they are still examining a notion put forward by the president and aides that the pandemic might have resulted from an accident at a Chinese lab.

Speaking Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Pompeo said he had no reason to believe that the virus was spread deliberately. But he added, “Remember, China has a history of infecting the world, and they have a history of running substandard laboratories.”

I think there is one thing most everyone would agree on, regardless of their position here:  China did not and has not told the truth on the severity of the outbreak there and their government is hot trash.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

16 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Will Weissert of the Associated Press -

WASHINGTON — U.S. officials believe China covered up the extent of the coronavirus outbreak — and how contagious the disease is — to stock up on medical supplies needed to respond to it, intelligence documents show.

Chinese leaders “intentionally concealed the severity” of the pandemic from the world in early January, according to a four-page Department of Homeland Security report dated May 1 and obtained by The Associated Press. The revelation comes as the Trump administration has intensified its criticism of China, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying Sunday that China was responsible for the spread of disease and must be held accountable.

The sharper rhetoric against China coincides with administration critics saying the government’s response to the virus was inadequate and slow. President Donald Trump’s political opponents have accused the president and his administration of lashing out at China, a geopolitical foe but critical U.S. trade partner, in an attempt to deflect criticism at home.

The analysis states that, while downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,” the analysis states.

The report also says China held off informing the World Health Organization that the coronavirus “was a contagion” for much of January so it could order medical supplies from abroad — and that its imports of face masks and surgical gowns and gloves increased sharply.

Those conclusions are based on the 95% probability that China’s changes in imports and export behavior were not within normal range, according to the report.

Trump has speculated that China could have unleashed the coronavirus due to some kind of horrible “mistake.” His intelligence agencies say they are still examining a notion put forward by the president and aides that the pandemic might have resulted from an accident at a Chinese lab.

Speaking Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Pompeo said he had no reason to believe that the virus was spread deliberately. But he added, “Remember, China has a history of infecting the world, and they have a history of running substandard laboratories.”

I think one of the most effective ways for the world(primarily US, Canada and Europe) to punish China for this would be too

A) Recognize Taiwan

B) Strengthen ties with India

C) Create an economic compact with the counties who territory they are encroaching on with those artificial islands. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

5 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

There’s tons of discussion about striking the proper balance. If people re-open too soon and the numbers spike, it’s gonna scare the crap out of most and the economic fallout will be even worse that an extended shutdown.

However, staying restricted longer than necessary is a terrible idea too, for so many reasons; both economic and mental health centered.

 

+1.  It's possible to be worried both about people's dying and the economy.  Having an opinion that we aren't ready to open just yet isn't a call to trash the economy just like someone wanting to open things up quicker isn't desiring more deaths to occur.  It seems like there are a lot of personal shots being thrown around (I've done a couple) because we disagree on the speed of opening.

Ultimately.....I JUST WANTED TO WATCH IU IN THE DAMN TOURNAMENT.  And then the whole world ****ed up.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Will Weissert of the Associated Press -
WASHINGTON — U.S. officials believe China covered up the extent of the coronavirus outbreak — and how contagious the disease is — to stock up on medical supplies needed to respond to it, intelligence documents show.
Chinese leaders “intentionally concealed the severity” of the pandemic from the world in early January, according to a four-page Department of Homeland Security report dated May 1 and obtained by The Associated Press. The revelation comes as the Trump administration has intensified its criticism of China, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying Sunday that China was responsible for the spread of disease and must be held accountable.
The sharper rhetoric against China coincides with administration critics saying the government’s response to the virus was inadequate and slow. President Donald Trump’s political opponents have accused the president and his administration of lashing out at China, a geopolitical foe but critical U.S. trade partner, in an attempt to deflect criticism at home.
The analysis states that, while downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,” the analysis states.
The report also says China held off informing the World Health Organization that the coronavirus “was a contagion” for much of January so it could order medical supplies from abroad — and that its imports of face masks and surgical gowns and gloves increased sharply.
Those conclusions are based on the 95% probability that China’s changes in imports and export behavior were not within normal range, according to the report.
Trump has speculated that China could have unleashed the coronavirus due to some kind of horrible “mistake.” His intelligence agencies say they are still examining a notion put forward by the president and aides that the pandemic might have resulted from an accident at a Chinese lab.
Speaking Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Pompeo said he had no reason to believe that the virus was spread deliberately. But he added, “Remember, China has a history of infecting the world, and they have a history of running substandard laboratories.”

Nothing about that surprises me. However, if our intelligence was gathering information that something was going on in Hubei and then China started shifted import/export how did we not see this coming?!

And **** the WHO.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Golfman25 4,664]

6 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’m not defending his methods. I’m saying (potentially him and millions of other business owners are facing stresses nobody else can possibly fathom).

When your livelihood and survivability is being threatened outside of your control you may act irrationally as well.

Yes, some federal help is in place, but no where near the level to save all these businesses.

These peoples lives and their families could be forever impacted.

Say, for example, we lose 200k to Corona Virus associated deaths but 2 million people lose businesses and have forever stressful impacts on mental health and physical. No one wants to consider the impact of this sequelae.








Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

How many on this board have actually lived it?  Doesn't sound like many.  I've been in my business for 30 years.  We survived Y2k, 9/11, the 2008 meltdown.  Each time we took a hit, but was able to manage and muddle thru.  This is different.  The stress is incredible.  You're not only dealing with the economic decline in demand, but the politicians' whims about shutting places down.  You know a shut down will cause an unstoppable avalanche of financial ruin you'll never come back from at your age.  The 72 hours before the IL Gov. issues his shut down order are the hardest.  You're contacting customers to see what they think.  Some are threatening legal liability if you can't fulfill their orders.  Your furiously crunching numbers -- how much cash do I have, how much do I need, who can a lay off.  Your trade association, who is lobbying the Governor, tells you it's not looking good --- please contact the Governor.  Your heart races, blood pressure is thru the roof.  Panic begins to set in.  You can't breath.  Your eyes well up with tears.  You calm down.  Rinse and repeat.  3 days go by.  Today's the day, the announcement comes at 3:30.  You start pacing at 2:30.  Start making calls, what do people know.  3:20 -- panic sets in.  Again you can't breath.  Only 10 min.  And then it's announced -- your're an "essential" business.  You feel like you survived a nuclear bomb.  But some of you friends weren't so lucky.  You're sad and concerned for them, but relieved for yourself.   

Ok, so now you're still operating.  But are you?  Where are the orders?  What does demand look like?  Contact customers, who's still alive?   Start running the numbers again.  What do you need to survive, sales, cash.  And then it hits -- worldwide automotive companies cease operations.  2 weeks shutdowns announced.  Some of your customers follow suit.  Call customers, crunch numbers -- that's you life going forward.  What happens next is TBD.  

Sorry for the length.  

 

[rcbowla 6,734]

So your solution would be if I don’t want to get infected, I should just not show up at my job and collect unemployment?
i would assume you’ll agree that never leaving your house is not a reality for most of the known world.

For one he's saying "if you don't want to get infected" or in other words not take the calculated risks with exposing yourself to the world then don't. That is clearly a decision "you" should have the right to make and not have it made for you. Secondly, you admit staying in your house is not a reality for most of the known world but you've seemed to be one of the biggest advocates here for quarantining everyone (healthy included) so I'm a little confused by your stance at this point. My mother is 71 with diabetes and just recently had a surgery so I fully understand not wanting others to infect folks like her. However, just like during flu season she needs to take extra precautions that I myself do not. At some point we have to have some self awarenesses about what risks we should and should not take based on our health. Having the government tell all of us to act and react the exact same way just makes no sense to me. If I were immuno compromised then I'd sure as hell not take the same risks as the 25 year old healthy guy but that's because I am capable of deciding what is in the best interest of my health. And if you're not sure then consult a health care professional. Sorry for such a long winded response.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

1 minute ago, rcs29 said:

For one he's saying "if you don't want to get infected" or in other words not take the calculated risks with exposing yourself to the world then don't. That is clearly a decision "you" should have the right to make and not have it made for you. Secondly, you admit staying in your house is not a reality for most of the known world but you've seemed to be one of the biggest advocates here for quarantining everyone (healthy included) so I'm a little confused by your stance at this point. My mother is 71 with diabetes and just recently had a surgery so I fully understand not wanting others to infect folks like her. However, just like during flu season she needs to take extra precautions that I myself do not. At some point we have to have some self awarenesses about what risks we should and should not take based on our health. Having the government tell all of us to act and react the exact same way just makes no sense to me. If I were immuno compromised then I'd sure as hell not take the same risks as the 25 year old healthy guy but that's because I am capable of deciding what is in the best interest of my health. And if you're not sure then consult a health care professional. Sorry for such a long winded response.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

Everybody is being told to act the same way because we can all act as carriers to virus. 
 

The measures aren’t going to stop the spread. The closure of non essential gathering places like restaurants isn’t to stop it. It’s designed to slow it down. And great your healthy and will be fine.
 

Do you come into contact with 0 people that you could potentially infect.  

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

9 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

For one he's saying "if you don't want to get infected" or in other words not take the calculated risks with exposing yourself to the world then don't. That is clearly a decision "you" should have the right to make and not have it made for you. Secondly, you admit staying in your house is not a reality for most of the known world but you've seemed to be one of the biggest advocates here for quarantining everyone (healthy included) so I'm a little confused by your stance at this point. My mother is 71 with diabetes and just recently had a surgery so I fully understand not wanting others to infect folks like her. However, just like during flu season she needs to take extra precautions that I myself do not. At some point we have to have some self awarenesses about what risks we should and should not take based on our health. Having the government tell all of us to act and react the exact same way just makes no sense to me. If I were immuno compromised then I'd sure as hell not take the same risks as the 25 year old healthy guy but that's because I am capable of deciding what is in the best interest of my health. And if you're not sure then consult a health care professional. Sorry for such a long winded response.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

Simple yes/no question:  do you think that any place in the United States should ever have been in an in-shelter order? Because the 'at some point we have to have some self awareness' can stand for any point in time.

[rcbowla 6,734]

Simple yes/no question:  do you think that any place in the United States should ever have been in an in-shelter order? Because the 'at some point we have to have some self awareness' can stand for any point in time.

Simple answer is yes. I believe major metropolitan areas did need to take extra precautions in order to not overwhelm the healthcare facilities. I say yes because at the time it was new and we didn't know much about it. I ask you a simple yes or no: do you feel it was necessary for every state and then every county within each state to take the same measures as said metropolitan areas? And despite Brass clearly not reading my post and just saying whatever was in his head I do have loved one's that are at higher risk and I get the precautions individuals want to take. However, I believe that like 99.99% of our lives those decisions should be in our hands as individuals and not the government's. We give them control of our decisions due to our personal health then what's left? Hypothetically speaking let's say I'm 75 and immuno compromised, I'm not going to invite people into my home right now, I'm not going to stores etc right now. That's how I'm looking out for my own best interest and that decision is mine. Once it's safer for me to resume normal practices I will. Could I or anyone similar have made that same decision for themselves without government intervention? The major metropolitan areas to me were a different case due to population/density.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

24 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

How many on this board have actually lived it?  Doesn't sound like many.  I've been in my business for 30 years.  We survived Y2k, 9/11, the 2008 meltdown.  Each time we took a hit, but was able to manage and muddle thru.  This is different.  The stress is incredible.  You're not only dealing with the economic decline in demand, but the politicians' whims about shutting places down.  You know a shut down will cause an unstoppable avalanche of financial ruin you'll never come back from at your age.  The 72 hours before the IL Gov. issues his shut down order are the hardest.  You're contacting customers to see what they think.  Some are threatening legal liability if you can't fulfill their orders.  Your furiously crunching numbers -- how much cash do I have, how much do I need, who can a lay off.  Your trade association, who is lobbying the Governor, tells you it's not looking good --- please contact the Governor.  Your heart races, blood pressure is thru the roof.  Panic begins to set in.  You can't breath.  Your eyes well up with tears.  You calm down.  Rinse and repeat.  3 days go by.  Today's the day, the announcement comes at 3:30.  You start pacing at 2:30.  Start making calls, what do people know.  3:20 -- panic sets in.  Again you can't breath.  Only 10 min.  And then it's announced -- your're an "essential" business.  You feel like you survived a nuclear bomb.  But some of you friends weren't so lucky.  You're sad and concerned for them, but relieved for yourself.   

Ok, so now you're still operating.  But are you?  Where are the orders?  What does demand look like?  Contact customers, who's still alive?   Start running the numbers again.  What do you need to survive, sales, cash.  And then it hits -- worldwide automotive companies cease operations.  2 weeks shutdowns announced.  Some of your customers follow suit.  Call customers, crunch numbers -- that's you life going forward.  What happens next is TBD.  

Sorry for the length.  

 

I appreciate the summary and do sympathize with business owners.  My wife ran a small business for about ten years where in order to make it work I would be going directly from my teaching job to our business because we couldn't afford to pay someone to work the front desk.  We went through a couple of years to tag team parent where she would be at home with our kids and when I came home I would take care of the kids while she went to work.....basically only saw each other on her day off on Sunday.  And I do know how much that business would have struggled to stay open with the current situation.

But I am tired of the black and white argument that is being painted that you either want the economy open or you don't.  We all want the economy open.  We disagree on the timeline.  And I'm not even someone that has has pushed for a June or later opening.....I've pushed for opening once we have contact tracing in place, which is May 11th....exactly one week after we are opening.

Economics do effect us all.  Even as someone who is getting paid right now, the long term implications are huge for me.  Teacher's pay is largely based on property tax payments and sales tax in Indiana.  The state has already indicated to school corporations that the tax situation is going to be bad and the funding is going to drop, and the situation is going to be worse than it has been since any time I've taught -- they say it will be worse than in was in 2009, when there were mass layoffs and pay drops.  Teachers will be losing their jobs soon.  The way that education had been set up in Indiana had already discouraged so many from going into the field....we are going to see that get worse, IMO. 

And when I hear someone like Dr. Oz call for opening schools because it's "an appetizing possibility" to test the spread of the virus, I simply don't get it.  It's obvious that he didn't even consider the fact that there are more than just children in classrooms.  I'm in a field where I will be at high risk to contract the virus.  I love teaching and love my students, but, dang.....kids is nasty with germs. :)

 

[RaceToTheTop 23,603]

59 minutes ago, rcs29 said:

Simple answer is yes. I believe major metropolitan areas did need to take extra precautions in order to not overwhelm the healthcare facilities. I say yes because at the time it was new and we didn't know much about it. I ask you a simple yes or no: do you feel it was necessary for every state and then every county within each state to take the same measures as said metropolitan areas? And despite Brass clearly not reading my post and just saying whatever was in his head I do have loved one's that are at higher risk and I get the precautions individuals want to take. However, I believe that like 99.99% of our lives those decisions should be in our hands as individuals and not the government's. We give them control of our decisions due to our personal health then what's left? Hypothetically speaking let's say I'm 75 and immuno compromised, I'm not going to invite people into my home right now, I'm not going to stores etc right now. That's how I'm looking out for my own best interest and that decision is mine. Once it's safer for me to resume normal practices I will. Could I or anyone similar have made that same decision for themselves without government intervention? The major metropolitan areas to me were a different case due to population/density.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

Well, Hell.....I had a long reply and for some reason it didn't post.  :(     I'll post a shorter one.

Simple answer is no.    I do believe they initial orders were necessary in order to determine the size of the problem and its spread.  No, I do not believe that every place needed the same precautions to not overwhelm health care facilities -- in terms of the in-shelter orders (although the in shelter orders were certainly different from state to state in terms of their directives,     I don't think that is the end all be all of the stay at home order, though.  I think it was necessary to give us more time to learn about the virus and how it's transmitted and examine patterns of its spread.  Different states had different responses because of supply which is something that I don't think they foresaw, and that is something I will lay largely on the feet of the federal government who competed against the states for purchase.  While we disagree on the dates and duration of the in shelter, I do not think we disagree that places necessarily needed the exact same precauations.

For instance, I do not think that Illinois had a need to extend all parts of the state until May 30th if they are able to perform an adequate number of tests and have other procedures (like contact tracing) in place.  I will say I am not as confident as you are in what we do know about covid-19 at this point.

[Old Friend 8,389]

4 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

What a shock you provide 0 evidence of your claims. You talk about lazy but you provide nothing but petty insults.  
 

Talking about objective sources without linking to them is really just a sign they don’t exist. It’s the grown up version of “my dad said”. So congrats on using the same arguments as my 3 year old. She’s growing out of it, maybe you can too

And to help you since you are allergic to common sense you need to find an expert a credible expert. Ie not doctor Phil who is going to say that reopening the economy won’t increase the death total. 

What evidence do I need?  Jesus, I deleted this thing less than 2 minutes after I typed it because it wasn't worth it, and STILL you saw it and replied.  AND...you need to put words in my mouth and make up a point so you can argue against it.   And you wonder why I think you're a stalker?  Good grief, man.  Get a life!  Go outside.  Breathe fresh air.  Read a book instead of a chat board.  But,...

1)  The "petty insults" have been well earned, and you know it as well as I do.  I do far more than "nothing but."  You know that, too.  I just find you easy fodder because you apparently live on here waiting to see what people say so you can pounce.  Why else would you have over 14,000 posts?

2)  It is impossible to talk logically with you.  You take the elementary road at every opportunity.  The easy narrative.  You're the intellectual equivalent to a 10 year old.  You actually played the "you want people to die" card.   Seriously...how is any sane, logical person supposed to have even a 4th grade level reasonable conversation with you if that's your stance?  That's straight from the far left, whack job, unreasonable, conspiracy theory "think the worst of humanity," lowest common denominator, simplistically elementary BS playbook that does nothing but sling mud.  Par for your course.

3)  I didn't make any kind of argument, let alone a common sense one, but okay...here's what you're basically saying.  "If you want the economy opened up, regardless of whether it's done safely or not, you care more about money and profit than people's lives,."  That's basically what you're saying, right?   Okay...common sense time.  You can't avoid airborne viruses. Fact.  So staying home and "flattening the curve" accomplishes the goal of avoidance of overwhelming the medical system, but doesn't make the virus go away.  We were buying time.  We bought it. The medical system wasn't overwhelmed.  We learn more about this thing every day, AND how to deal with it.  Nobody doesn't know about this.  Nobody doesn't know how to care for himself.

Of course people are going to die.  That's not preventable unless you really believe (and you might..you're capable) people should literally stay home until there's a vaccine.  It's also not preventable if there IS a vaccine.  People die of the flu every year.  Where's your outrage?  You think people who want things to open don't care about people's lives?  I'd turn it around and say YOU don't care if people get abused.  If they commit suicide.  If their immune systems weaken because they're exposed to nothing (would you like an explanation on the human immune system?  My guess is you could use it), they're more prone to catching other viruses and diseases, with more difficult medical outcomes.  You don't care about that.  You don't care about the victims of domestic abuse, or perhaps you haven't noticed the rise in cases?

YOU don't care about peoples' livelihood nor their future.  YOU don't care about the rise in poverty, unemployment, or addiction.  YOU don't care about ruining the millions of lives you probably believe would be "saved" in order to maintain what amounts to a prison sentence for as long as you feel necessary.  YOU have zero understanding of risk.  Or zero tolerance. It seems you'd rather live in a bubble, protected by whatever moral high ground you think you own preventing a few deaths by THIS virus.  I promise you....weakened immune systems will kill more by a factor of 50 than COVID will if we stay quarantined much longer.  Quarantining doesn't solve the problem.  It prolongs it so we can deal with it.   I'll say this slowly for you.  That's called......flattening the curve.   Maybe you've heard the phrase?

The goal of quarantine.....stay with me here......has never been to get rid of the virus.  That is not how this works.  So it IS possible when....with me still?....the curve is flattened....and it is....to re-start the economy so people.....stay with me....don't begin to die en masse by OTHER means directly related to prolonged quarantine.   You will either have an a-ha moment or you'll continue in your blissful ignorance.  If you're all about "saving even a single life!" go protest to lower speed limits to 10 MPH.  Go eliminate alcohol, cigarettes, and fatty foods.  Sleep every night with a new pillow.  Avoid beaches.   Avoid restaurants.  OR...here's a thought.  Educate yourself on the human immune system and evaluate the every day risks we all take.  With a new virus?  It does create a few new protocols.  And you know what?  Those won't be enough.  Others will die.   We haven't figured out yet how to prevent death from disease.  So we deal with risk.  We (here's another new word for you) mitigate it.  But if you want to think "people don't care about peoples' lives en lieu of profits" there's no helping you.  That is so incredibly elementary and lazy...there's no point in you even reading the above, let alone anything reasonable.   Just go wrap yourself in bubble wrap with a straw poking out the top and we'll see you whenever IU loses a game so you can blame the coach or Fred Glass and tell me how wrong I am.   

[rcbowla 6,734]

What evidence do I need?  Jesus, I deleted this thing less than 2 minutes after I typed it because it wasn't worth it, and STILL you saw it and replied.  AND...you need to put words in my mouth and make up a point so you can argue against it.   And you wonder why I think you're a stalker?  Good grief, man.  Get a life!  Go outside.  Breathe fresh air.  Read a book instead of a chat board.  But,...
1)  The "petty insults" have been well earned, and you know it as well as I do.  I do far more than "nothing but."  You know that, too.  I just find you easy fodder because you apparently live on here waiting to see what people say so you can pounce.  Why else would you have over 14,000 posts?
2)  It is impossible to talk logically with you.  You take the elementary road at every opportunity.  The easy narrative.  You're the intellectual equivalent to a 10 year old.  You actually played the "you want people to die" card.   Seriously...how is any sane, logical person supposed to have even a 4th grade level reasonable conversation with you if that's your stance?  That's straight from the far left, whack job, unreasonable, conspiracy theory "think the worst of humanity," lowest common denominator, simplistically elementary BS playbook that does nothing but sling mud.  Par for your course.
3)  I didn't make any kind of argument, let alone a common sense one, but okay...here's what you're basically saying.  "If you want the economy opened up, regardless of whether it's done safely or not, you care more about money and profit than people's lives,."  That's basically what you're saying, right?   Okay...common sense time.  You can't avoid airborne viruses. Fact.  So staying home and "flattening the curve" accomplishes the goal of avoidance of overwhelming the medical system, but doesn't make the virus go away.  We were buying time.  We bought it. The medical system wasn't overwhelmed.  We learn more about this thing every day, AND how to deal with it.  Nobody doesn't know about this.  Nobody doesn't know how to care for himself.
Of course people are going to die.  That's not preventable unless you really believe (and you might..you're capable) people should literally stay home until there's a vaccine.  It's also not preventable if there IS a vaccine.  People die of the flu every year.  Where's your outrage?  You think people who want things to open don't care about people's lives?  I'd turn it around and say YOU don't care if people get abused.  If they commit suicide.  If their immune systems weaken because they're exposed to nothing (would you like an explanation on the human immune system?  My guess is you could use it), they're more prone to catching other viruses and diseases, with more difficult medical outcomes.  You don't care about that.  You don't care about the victims of domestic abuse, or perhaps you haven't noticed the rise in cases?
YOU don't care about peoples' livelihood nor their future.  YOU don't care about the rise in poverty, unemployment, or addiction.  YOU don't care about ruining the millions of lives you probably believe would be "saved" in order to maintain what amounts to a prison sentence for as long as you feel necessary.  YOU have zero understanding of risk.  Or zero tolerance. It seems you'd rather live in a bubble, protected by whatever moral high ground you think you own preventing a few deaths by THIS virus.  I promise you....weakened immune systems will kill more by a factor of 50 than COVID will if we stay quarantined much longer.  Quarantining doesn't solve the problem.  It prolongs it so we can deal with it.   I'll say this slowly for you.  That's called......flattening the curve.   Maybe you've heard the phrase?
The goal of quarantine.....stay with me here......has never been to get rid of the virus.  That is not how this works.  So it IS possible when....with me still?....the curve is flattened....and it is....to re-start the economy so people.....stay with me....don't begin to die en masse by OTHER means directly related to prolonged quarantine.   You will either have an a-ha moment or you'll continue in your blissful ignorance.  If you're all about "saving even a single life!" go protest to lower speed limits to 10 MPH.  Go eliminate alcohol, cigarettes, and fatty foods.  Sleep every night with a new pillow.  Avoid beaches.   Avoid restaurants.  OR...here's a thought.  Educate yourself on the human immune system and evaluate the every day risks we all take.  With a new virus?  It does create a few new protocols.  And you know what?  Those won't be enough.  Others will die.   We haven't figured out yet how to prevent death from disease.  So we deal with risk.  We (here's another new word for you) mitigate it.  But if you want to think "people don't care about peoples' lives en lieu of profits" there's no helping you.  That is so incredibly elementary and lazy...there's no point in you even reading the above, let alone anything reasonable.   Just go wrap yourself in bubble wrap with a straw poking out the top and we'll see you whenever IU loses a game so you can blame the coach or Fred Glass and tell me how wrong I am.   

I am picturing you as Clark Griswald when he gets his Christmas bonus while reading that. And now I'm giving a slow clap to that tirade.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Golfman25 4,664]

2 hours ago, Old Friend said:

What evidence do I need?  Jesus, I deleted this thing less than 2 minutes after I typed it because it wasn't worth it, and STILL you saw it and replied.  AND...you need to put words in my mouth and make up a point so you can argue against it.   And you wonder why I think you're a stalker?  Good grief, man.  Get a life!  Go outside.  Breathe fresh air.  Read a book instead of a chat board.  But,...

1)  The "petty insults" have been well earned, and you know it as well as I do.  I do far more than "nothing but."  You know that, too.  I just find you easy fodder because you apparently live on here waiting to see what people say so you can pounce.  Why else would you have over 14,000 posts?

2)  It is impossible to talk logically with you.  You take the elementary road at every opportunity.  The easy narrative.  You're the intellectual equivalent to a 10 year old.  You actually played the "you want people to die" card.   Seriously...how is any sane, logical person supposed to have even a 4th grade level reasonable conversation with you if that's your stance?  That's straight from the far left, whack job, unreasonable, conspiracy theory "think the worst of humanity," lowest common denominator, simplistically elementary BS playbook that does nothing but sling mud.  Par for your course.

3)  I didn't make any kind of argument, let alone a common sense one, but okay...here's what you're basically saying.  "If you want the economy opened up, regardless of whether it's done safely or not, you care more about money and profit than people's lives,."  That's basically what you're saying, right?   Okay...common sense time.  You can't avoid airborne viruses. Fact.  So staying home and "flattening the curve" accomplishes the goal of avoidance of overwhelming the medical system, but doesn't make the virus go away.  We were buying time.  We bought it. The medical system wasn't overwhelmed.  We learn more about this thing every day, AND how to deal with it.  Nobody doesn't know about this.  Nobody doesn't know how to care for himself.

Of course people are going to die.  That's not preventable unless you really believe (and you might..you're capable) people should literally stay home until there's a vaccine.  It's also not preventable if there IS a vaccine.  People die of the flu every year.  Where's your outrage?  You think people who want things to open don't care about people's lives?  I'd turn it around and say YOU don't care if people get abused.  If they commit suicide.  If their immune systems weaken because they're exposed to nothing (would you like an explanation on the human immune system?  My guess is you could use it), they're more prone to catching other viruses and diseases, with more difficult medical outcomes.  You don't care about that.  You don't care about the victims of domestic abuse, or perhaps you haven't noticed the rise in cases?

YOU don't care about peoples' livelihood nor their future.  YOU don't care about the rise in poverty, unemployment, or addiction.  YOU don't care about ruining the millions of lives you probably believe would be "saved" in order to maintain what amounts to a prison sentence for as long as you feel necessary.  YOU have zero understanding of risk.  Or zero tolerance. It seems you'd rather live in a bubble, protected by whatever moral high ground you think you own preventing a few deaths by THIS virus.  I promise you....weakened immune systems will kill more by a factor of 50 than COVID will if we stay quarantined much longer.  Quarantining doesn't solve the problem.  It prolongs it so we can deal with it.   I'll say this slowly for you.  That's called......flattening the curve.   Maybe you've heard the phrase?

The goal of quarantine.....stay with me here......has never been to get rid of the virus.  That is not how this works.  So it IS possible when....with me still?....the curve is flattened....and it is....to re-start the economy so people.....stay with me....don't begin to die en masse by OTHER means directly related to prolonged quarantine.   You will either have an a-ha moment or you'll continue in your blissful ignorance.  If you're all about "saving even a single life!" go protest to lower speed limits to 10 MPH.  Go eliminate alcohol, cigarettes, and fatty foods.  Sleep every night with a new pillow.  Avoid beaches.   Avoid restaurants.  OR...here's a thought.  Educate yourself on the human immune system and evaluate the every day risks we all take.  With a new virus?  It does create a few new protocols.  And you know what?  Those won't be enough.  Others will die.   We haven't figured out yet how to prevent death from disease.  So we deal with risk.  We (here's another new word for you) mitigate it.  But if you want to think "people don't care about peoples' lives en lieu of profits" there's no helping you.  That is so incredibly elementary and lazy...there's no point in you even reading the above, let alone anything reasonable.   Just go wrap yourself in bubble wrap with a straw poking out the top and we'll see you whenever IU loses a game so you can blame the coach or Fred Glass and tell me how wrong I am.   

This x 1000.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, rcs29 said:

I am picturing you as Clark Griswald when he gets his Christmas bonus while reading that. And now I'm giving a slow clap to that tirade.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

I was singing like Danny F'ing Kaye