Coronavirus and Its Impact

[Chips&Dipo 1,448]

Just got the word last night that my sister caught it. She is an RN at a senior community in southern Indiana and has been helping out with the COVID unit. She seems to be have pretty mild symptoms, but has pretty severe asthma which is worrisome. She also lives with my parents.
 

My dad showed symptoms and was told by the ISDH that he likely has it. He was told that he could get tested if he wanted but they are likely to just confirm and send him home to quarantine because his symptoms aren’t severe either.  So he isn’t getting the test because he doesn’t want to leave the house and infect someone else (plus I have no idea where the closest testing site is). He is older and also has asthma so that of course adds to the worry.
 

Mom seems to be fine, but I feel like it is only a matter of time living in a house with two people with COVID. She has a compromised immune symptom and she has me the most nervous.  
 

Docs order for the whole gang is to stay at home and quarantine for two weeks. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,191]

Just got the word last night that my sister caught it. She is an RN at a senior community in southern Indiana and has been helping out with the COVID unit. She seems to be have pretty mild symptoms, but has pretty severe asthma which is worrisome. She also lives with my parents.
 
My dad showed symptoms and was told by the ISDH that he likely has it. He was told that he could get tested if he wanted but they are likely to just confirm and send him home to quarantine because his symptoms aren’t severe either.  So he isn’t getting the test because he doesn’t want to leave the house and infect someone else (plus I have no idea where the closest testing site is). He is older and also has asthma so that of course adds to the worry.
 
Mom seems to be fine, but I feel like it is only a matter of time living in a house with two people with COVID. She has a compromised immune symptom and she has me the most nervous.  
 
Docs order for the whole gang is to stay at home and quarantine for two weeks. 

Now your user name makes sense to me... hope passes over easily for all of them.


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[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,957]

34 minutes ago, Andowen1990IU said:

Docs order for the whole gang is to stay at home and quarantine for two weeks. 

Hoping for the best for all of them.  Please keep us posted on how they're doing.

[hoosierfan6157 325]

Praying!

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

Rumors swirling that Kim Jong Un is dead or in a vegetative state after a failed stint installation. 
 

I guess they would usually fly western doctors in for these kind of operations in the past but couldn’t because of pandemic. 

[JSHoosier 19,565]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Rumors swirling that Kim Jong Un is dead or in a vegetative state after a failed stint installation. 
 

I guess they would usually fly western doctors in for these kind of operations in the past but couldn’t because of pandemic. 

I'm sure the citizens of North Korea are distraught.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,191]

I'm sure the citizens of North Korea are distraught.

We will never know likely how they really feel.


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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

I'm sure the citizens of North Korea are distraught.

True. But the US has wargamed this scenario. If he’s dead his younger sister is set to assume power.  Can she hold it then.  If not US forces will move in. Can’t risk the losing side in a civil war to have nukes. 

[8bucks 6,118]

Just got the word last night that my sister caught it. She is an RN at a senior community in southern Indiana and has been helping out with the COVID unit. She seems to be have pretty mild symptoms, but has pretty severe asthma which is worrisome. She also lives with my parents.
 
My dad showed symptoms and was told by the ISDH that he likely has it. He was told that he could get tested if he wanted but they are likely to just confirm and send him home to quarantine because his symptoms aren’t severe either.  So he isn’t getting the test because he doesn’t want to leave the house and infect someone else (plus I have no idea where the closest testing site is). He is older and also has asthma so that of course adds to the worry.
 
Mom seems to be fine, but I feel like it is only a matter of time living in a house with two people with COVID. She has a compromised immune symptom and she has me the most nervous.  
 
Docs order for the whole gang is to stay at home and quarantine for two weeks. 

We went through this about a month ago. Sister n law had a confirmed test but had exposed her Dad while moving him in to our house. We had 8 here that then had to quarantine and wait. We went ahead and got a test for my father n law as he is currently recovering from pneumonia. Fortunately that was negative.

Neighbors and friends were great. They shopped for us and some ordered food to be delivered from our favorite places.

Praying your family stays symptom free.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

3 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Sweden has the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries.  I wouldn't use them as a success story.

Sweden currently has the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries. Sweden's approach by design will feature short-term spikes to get to long-term immunity. Now look at them compared to other European countries. 

 

They're doing better than Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, and the U.K., despite those countries being shutdown for weeks and weeks. We were told that unless we close the entire country down, our hospitals will be completely overrun and our doctors will be choosing who lives and who dies. Yet, Sweden never closed down and that has not happened. Their hospitals are under capacity. Their ICUs are not overcapacity. And their capital could reach herd immunity in weeks. 

 

[JSHoosier 19,565]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sweden currently has the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries. Sweden's approach by design will feature short-term spikes to get to long-term immunity. Now look at them compared to other European countries. 

 

They're doing better than Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, and the U.K., despite those countries being shutdown for weeks and weeks.

We were told that unless we close the entire country down, our hospitals will be completely overrun and our doctors will be choosing who lives and who dies. Yet, Sweden never closed down and that has not happened. Their hospitals are under capacity. Their ICUs are not overcapacity. And their capital could reach herd immunity in weeks.

All that shows is that Sweden isn't a complete success or a complete disaster.  I never said they're a total disaster, but they're hardly a prime example of success.  And them having the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries is despite having one of the world's most effective healthcare systems.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sweden currently has the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries. Sweden's approach by design will feature short-term spikes to get to long-term immunity. Now look at them compared to other European countries. 

 

They're doing better than Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, and the U.K., despite those countries being shutdown for weeks and weeks.

We were told that unless we close the entire country down, our hospitals will be completely overrun and our doctors will be choosing who lives and who dies. Yet, Sweden never closed down and that has not happened. Their hospitals are under capacity. Their ICUs are not overcapacity. And their capital could reach herd immunity in weeks.

Metro area of London is by itself a greater population than all of Sweden. Population density does matter for spread of virus. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

All that shows is that Sweden isn't a complete success or a complete disaster.  I never said they're a total disaster, but they're hardly a prime example of success.  And them having the highest death rate among Scandinavian countries is despite having one of the world's most effective healthcare systems.

I fail to see how they are not a success. 'Flattening the curve' doesn't decrease the number of deaths or infections, it spreads them out over a longer period of time. Sweden's approach has not caused any excess death due to a lack of hospital space. And they did it without intentionally nuking their economy.

You're focused on death rate, but the death rate isn't going to tell us anything now, just weeks into a pandemic that's expected to last for the next 18 months. You can't point to their death rate right now and say "see, they're not doing well." The herd immunity approach that Sweden went with will lead to a higher initial death rate, yes. That's by design. Let's look at death rates 6 months from now.

What we can look at right now is the fact that their hospitals have never been overwhelmed during the pandemic, despite all the 'experts' saying they would be. If lockdowns are not necessary to prevent overwhelmed hospitals, as Sweden shows, why are we still doing them? 

[Old Friend 8,389]

8 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

If things have gotten so much better in the last couple of weeks, why are the models adjusting for number of deaths up and not down?  The highly touted 60,000 number through August 30th will likely be here by April 30th.

Why?  because of "presumed" deaths.   Because the more we test, the more positive tests we have.  The more positive tests we have, the more raw numbers are produced by the data.   And, the deaths include every known and every presumed death "with" Coronavirus rather than "from" it.   Context matters, right?   Study from Stanford based on antibody testing shows that perhaps 85x the number of people actually had COVID-19 than initially reported.   

The US has tested over 5 million people now, so yeah..raw numbers are going to go up across the board.  With 900,000 positive tests, assuming Stanford's numbers are right, 76,500,000 people will have had this thing.  So it would only be natural to assume "presumed" deaths (or better said deaths attributed to it after the fact) will rise.   But.... then, if you apply context...and you go with the KNOWN raw numbers, you come to a different conclusion.   You can look at the Johns Hopkins chart as easily as I can.  You can look up the numbers as easily as I can.  Hospitalizations are down across the country.  Including in some "hot spots."   The care being given now is more of a known than it was 5 weeks ago, and the death rate is down.   WAY down if you attribute presumed deaths and add in any exponential factor assuming more people have this than was originally known.  

You can make any number fit your argument if you spin it your way.  I'm aware of that; however if you're relying on anecdotal and presumed data to prove actual data wrong, I'd say that's just another way to spin it.    The bottom line?   The medical people in charge would never have approved a phase 1 exit plan if the true numbers were as you and BC claim they are.   

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I fail to see how they are not a success. 'Flattening the curve' doesn't decrease the number of deaths or infections, it spreads them out over a longer period of time. Sweden's approach has not caused any excess death due to a lack of hospital space. And they did it without intentionally nuking their economy.

You're focused on death rate, but the death rate isn't going to tell us anything now, just weeks into a pandemic that's expected to last for the next 18 months. You can't point to their death rate right now and say "see, they're not doing well." The herd immunity approach that Sweden went with will lead to a higher initial death rate, yes. That's by design. Let's look at death rates 6 months from now.

What we can look at right now is the fact that their hospitals have never been overwhelmed during the pandemic, despite all the 'experts' saying they would be. If lockdowns are not necessary to prevent overwhelmed hospitals, as Sweden shows, why are we still doing them? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox29.com/news/princess-sofia-of-sweden-volunteers-at-hospital-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.amp

According to Fox Swedish hospitals have been overwhelmed 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Metro area of London is by itself a greater population than all of Sweden. Population density does matter for spread of virus. 

London and Stockholm have similar population densities. 13,000/sq mile in Stockholm and 14,600/sq mile in London. 

But I've been saying all along that population density is an important factor and that it's why we shouldn't have one blanket approach in the US.

[JSHoosier 19,565]

16 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Metro area of London is by itself a greater population than all of Sweden. Population density does matter for spread of virus. 

Sweden's population is ranked around 91, with a little over 60 people per square mile.  US has a little over 90 people per square mile.

 

 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

14 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox29.com/news/princess-sofia-of-sweden-volunteers-at-hospital-amid-coronavirus-outbreak.amp

According to Fox Swedish hospitals have been overwhelmed 

The article you linked mentions one hospital specifically, and it does not say that they have been overcapacity. 

"We now have about 530 patients in intensive care in the country: our hospital capacity is twice as high at 1,100. Stockholm now averages about 220 critical care patients per day and its hospitals, far from being overwhelmed, have capacity for another 70. Stockholm also reports that it has several hundred inpatient care beds unoccupied and that people shouldn’t hesitate to seek hospital care if they feel sick. A new field ward has been set up in Stockholm for intensive and inpatient care and some predicted it would start getting patients two weeks ago. It hasn’t received any patients yet."

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-swedish-experiment-looks-like-it-s-paying-off

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The article you linked mentions one hospital specifically, and it does not say that they have been overcapacity. 

"We now have about 530 patients in intensive care in the country: our hospital capacity is twice as high at 1,100. Stockholm now averages about 220 critical care patients per day and its hospitals, far from being overwhelmed, have capacity for another 70. Stockholm also reports that it has several hundred inpatient care beds unoccupied and that people shouldn’t hesitate to seek hospital care if they feel sick. A new field ward has been set up in Stockholm for intensive and inpatient care and some predicted it would start getting patients two weeks ago. It hasn’t received any patients yet."

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-swedish-experiment-looks-like-it-s-paying-off

It’s not just beds you use a measure for a hospital being overwhelmed. It’s supplies and equipment. 
 

But regardless we aren’t really a good comparison. Since their healthcare system is generally better with a healthier population. 
 

They also haven’t flattened the curve yet. It’s going to worse there. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,191]

It’s not just beds you use a measure for a hospital being overwhelmed. It’s supplies and equipment. 
 
But regardless we aren’t really a good comparison. Since their healthcare system is generally better with a healthier population. 
 
They also haven’t flattened the curve yet. It’s going to worse there. 

The US is in pretty god shape as of now when it comes beds and equipment. New York has just been hit really hard.


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