Coronavirus and Its Impact

[JSHoosier 19,559]

50 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry got four posts of misinformation based on your “anecdotal” evidence in the first two pages and realized you weren’t worth my time beyond. Pound yourself.

 

 

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I wouldn't really consider my post misinformation, it doesn't take much for chloroquine to be very dangerous.  Maybe the number I gave was a tad low but the point still stands.

                     Chloroquine has a low margin of safety; the 
                     therapeutic, toxic and lethal doses are very 
                     close.
                     
                     In adults fatalities have been reported after 
                     ingestion of 2.25 to 3 g chloroquine (Britton & 
                     Kevau, 1978). Without treatment, a dose of 4 g 
                     is usually lethal.
                     
                     So 20 mg/Kg is a toxic dose, 30 mg/Kg may be 
                     lethal and 40 mg/Kg is usually lethal without 
                     early intensive therapy (Jaeger et al., 1987).
 

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/chloroqu.htm#SectionTitle:7.2 Toxicity

[mdn82 25,456]

I wouldn't really consider my post misinformation, it doesn't take much for chloroquine to be very dangerous.  Maybe the number I gave was a tad low but the point still stands.

                    Chloroquine has a low margin of safety; the                     therapeutic, toxic and lethal doses are very                     close.                                        In adults fatalities have been reported after                     ingestion of 2.25 to 3 g chloroquine (Britton &                     Kevau, 1978). Without treatment, a dose of 4 g                     is usually lethal.                                        So 20 mg/Kg is a toxic dose, 30 mg/Kg may be                     lethal and 40 mg/Kg is usually lethal without                     early intensive therapy (Jaeger et al., 1987).

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/chloroqu.htm#SectionTitle:7.2 Toxicity

No I added yours to show him what he was responding to. Sorry you were involved innocently.


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[BlueDevil 8,643]

Can someone explain to me why it’s predicted we will go into a recession? Super ignorant on the topic so sorry if it seems like a dumbass question. I see the Dow has been on the rise but don’t know if that is irrelevant. Is the recession to come?


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[Golfman25 4,652]

49 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I wouldn't really consider my post misinformation, it doesn't take much for chloroquine to be very dangerous.  Maybe the number I gave was a tad low but the point still stands.

                     Chloroquine has a low margin of safety; the 
                     therapeutic, toxic and lethal doses are very 
                     close.
                     
                     In adults fatalities have been reported after 
                     ingestion of 2.25 to 3 g chloroquine (Britton & 
                     Kevau, 1978). Without treatment, a dose of 4 g 
                     is usually lethal.
                     
                     So 20 mg/Kg is a toxic dose, 30 mg/Kg may be 
                     lethal and 40 mg/Kg is usually lethal without 
                     early intensive therapy (Jaeger et al., 1987).
 

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/chloroqu.htm#SectionTitle:7.2 Toxicity

Now try hydroxychloroquine aka plaquenil, which is what we are talking about.    

[Golfman25 4,652]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Even if true. Anecdotes aren’t evidence. 

I think you mean scientific.  

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

I think you mean scientific.  

Well both are true 

[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

34 minutes ago, BlueDevil said:

Can someone explain to me why it’s predicted we will go into a recession? Super ignorant on the topic so sorry if it seems like a dumbass question. I see the Dow has been on the rise but don’t know if that is irrelevant. Is the recession to come?


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Part will be that there will be a lot of small businesses that don't survive.  Some might be eligible for government loans but feel that it is more financially sound to not take a loan for a business in the current climate and close shop.  This will lead to people losing jobs.  We when do start to open up, it's also not going to full bore 100% restrictionless.

[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

1 hour ago, Lebowski said:

Well, he didn't get taken to a concentration camp and those darn 'Nazis' issued an apology, so, there's that.  Here's what I've learned, the hard way, through the years, just don't be a jerk to authority.  If they ask you for identification, you should probably give them your ID. If you don't have priors, didn't commit a crime and don't have any warrants there's a 99.99999% chance you're not going to get cuffed.  Heck man, just don't be jerk in general has been a pretty solid road traveled for me.  
 

Since you're up on the science behind predictive modeling, this is called an 'anomaly' in the algorithm applied to the predictive model. ;-)

And the guy didn't get arrested for "throwing a softball to his kid".  Funny how he skipped over the part about the park being closed.  Mooney's statement that 'he wasn't violating any rules' is incorrect isn't even true in this one-sided account of the story.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

37 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Now try hydroxychloroquine aka plaquenil, which is what we are talking about.    

When I made the post MDN quoted we were talking about chloroquine.

From what I read the fatal dose of hydroxychloroquine isn't well established but a clinical series showed about 4 grams.

[Hoosierfan2017 19,886]

What is the rationale for this? Counting people who die with coronavirus as dying from coronavirus is one thing. But counting people who haven't even been tested as coronavirus deaths? That seems... Suspicious. The cynic in me says it's to inflate the numbers. Do they do this with any other virus?

 

[mdn82 25,456]

What is the rationale for this? Counting people who die with coronavirus as dying from coronavirus is one thing. But counting people who haven't even been tested as coronavirus deaths? That seems... Suspicious. The cynic in me says it's to inflate the numbers. Do they do this with any other virus?
[/url]  

Yes the flu. The coroner is not doing a blood test for the flu.


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[RaceToTheTop 23,572]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

What is the rationale for this? Counting people who die with coronavirus as dying from coronavirus is one thing. But counting people who haven't even been tested as coronavirus deaths? That seems... Suspicious. The cynic in me says it's to inflate the numbers. Do they do this with any other virus?

 

The skeptic in you should be questioning if the current number isn't too low instead of too high since it would not have included those who actually were infected and died but were not counted because they were never tested.  Saying the 'cynic' in you wonders if 'they are doing this to inflate the numbers' makes me wonder if you are just a conspiracist.

https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-dismisses-conspiracy-theories-to-spin-the-coronavirus-death-toll-132059427.html

“You can’t rely on just the laboratory-confirmed cases,” Marc-Alain Widdowson, an epidemiologist who left the CDC last year and now serves as director of the Institute of Tropical Medicine Antwerp in Belgium, told the Post. “You’re never going to apply the test on everybody who is ill and everybody who dies. So without doubt — it’s a truism — the number of deaths are underestimated globally.”

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,940]

49 minutes ago, BlueDevil said:

Can someone explain to me why it’s predicted we will go into a recession? Super ignorant on the topic so sorry if it seems like a dumbass question. I see the Dow has been on the rise but don’t know if that is irrelevant. Is the recession to come?


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12 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Part will be that there will be a lot of small businesses that don't survive.  Some might be eligible for government loans but feel that it is more financially sound to not take a loan for a business in the current climate and close shop.  This will lead to people losing jobs.  We when do start to open up, it's also not going to full bore 100% restrictionless.

The longer people are without their usual paying jobs they won't have the same level of disposable income thus can't afford to go out to eat; go to a movie; buy a new car, furniture, etc.  It will take a period of time for them to get back on their feet.  Additionally, employers will likely not call back all laid off employees simultaneously.  They'll wait to see what the level of demand is for their product and add staff as necessary.  For some businesses it will take months to return to pre-virus employment levels keeping unemployment high for some period of time.  

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,940]

For All the Bears fans -

[Golfman25 4,652]

2 hours ago, mdn82 said:

Would love to see who prescribed that.


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This guy right here.  https://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/faculty-profiles/az/profile.html?xid=35235

He has since moved on to Northwestern.  Obviously a hack.  You still want to play?   

[mdn82 25,456]

Bull crap.  Meds are used off label, without FDA approval, all the time.    

This guy right here.  https://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/faculty-profiles/az/profile.html?xid=35235

He has since moved on to Northwestern.  Obviously a hack.  You still want to play?   

We go from “all of the time” to I have one instance that is debatable at best and sounds exactly like a study/trial which is exactly what I said. Lol you do you bud, but this is a pretty wide leap from “all of the time.” How many more of these one offs make up “all the time”. Misinformation and you know it. Yes embellishing is misinformation. Thank you for continuing to prove my point.

 

 

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[Chips&Dipo 1,448]

I used to do false claims work for the state and had a lot of cases (LOT) in the pharmaceuticals industry. 

It is perfectly legal for a physician to prescribe a drug for off label use (medical knowledge, first amendment issue). It is agianst the law for a pharmaceutical to advertise or otherwise influence doctors to prescribe a drug for any use that isn’t approved by the FDA. 

 

More clearly stated: Company A develops Drug B and it is approved for X by FDA. Doctor does research and finds Drug A can be used to treat Y. Doctor can publish findings in medical journal and doctors can use Drug B for Y. Company A cannot advertise That Drug B does Y until it gets FDA approval. 

[Golfman25 4,652]

1 hour ago, BlueDevil said:

Can someone explain to me why it’s predicted we will go into a recession? Super ignorant on the topic so sorry if it seems like a dumbass question. I see the Dow has been on the rise but don’t know if that is irrelevant. Is the recession to come?


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Optimism and demand will suffer.  People won't be buying cars, taking vacations, taking risks, etc. at the same level they where before this happened.  All will lead to declining GDP.  The traditional objective def is two quarters of negative GDP.  We had such a slowdown in March, we could possibly hit the first quarter in Q1 (depending how the Jan/Feb. numbers are).  April is going to leave a mark.  May and June, who knows at this point.  The rest of the year is TBD.   

[Golfman25 4,652]

3 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

 

We go from “all of the time” to I have one instance that is debatable at best and sounds exactly like a study/trial which is exactly what I said. Lol you do you bud, but this is a pretty wide leap from “all of the time.” How many more of these one offs make up “all the time”. Misinformation and you know it. Yes embellishing is misinformation. Thank you for continuing to prove my point.

 

 

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Whatever.  When you're confronted with facts, you parse the words.  Typical BS.  

[Golfman25 4,652]

4 minutes ago, Andowen1990IU said:

I used to do false claims work for the state and had a lot of cases (LOT) in the pharmaceuticals industry. 

It is perfectly legal for a physician to prescribe a drug for off label use (medical knowledge, first amendment issue). It is agianst the law for a pharmaceutical to advertise or otherwise influence doctors to prescribe a drug for any use that isn’t approved by the FDA. 

 

More clearly stated: Company A develops Drug B and it is approved for X by FDA. Doctor does research and finds Drug A can be used to treat Y. Doctor can publish findings in medical journal and doctors can use Drug B for Y. Company A cannot advertise That Drug B does Y until it gets FDA approval. 

No you can't.  Mdn82 said so.