Negativity Thread

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 hour ago, 8bucks said:

I wonder if it is just IU. I still think that when we hired Archie we hoped he could be like Sean then all of a sudden Sean doesn’t look so appealing to the admin so we got cold feet and limit him.


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The admin changes next year, so we'll see.  I still submit Indiana has suffered from injuries/team health; perhaps the worst senior leadership in program history (see : their act on the bench last week, injuries to Davis and his never fully recovering, and the DeVonte Green experience among other things), having to fit square pegs in round holes (Green as a primary ball handler as an example); inexperience (Indiana playing several kids every year first year in a system and a few used to playing or recruited to play in a completely different one); lack of depth at the PG position (having coached as long as I have, it's really difficult to ask your ONLY primary ball handler to also be your ONLY primary on-ball defender; especially if he's not fully healthy; and Phinisee hasn't been); contagious shooting problems; and general bad timing - catch OSU yesterday after a week to prepare, same as Penn State on Wednesday, etc..

Basically, i think this team is a group of disparate parts right now.  Part of that's on Archie.  Part of it's not.   For me, next season is the telling season.  Is Indiana on the right track or not?  I still think this team can go win a game or two in the NCAA tournament.  Or...it can lose to about anybody.  4 more wins and Indiana is solidly in the field.   Here's hoping.

[Honkyman 1,670]

The mark of a really good coach is the ability to find ways to get his players to play better than their talent level. Archie doesn't seem to be able to do get his teams to over-perform. In fact, too often the opposite seems true. Some people blame the players Crean recruited, but even the players Archie recruited don't seem to show the effort necessary to win games in this conference either. Nor does it appear any of our 2020 recruits will provide much improvement but I could be wrong. I agree next season will tell us if this is headed in the right direction--especially if Trayce Jackson Davis returns (I've seen his name in the late 1st round on mock draft boards). Years ago a team that returned all of its starters had to be considered competitive for the conference title. We'll see if that applies should TJD return.

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

18 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

For me, next season is the telling season.  Is Indiana on the right track or not?  I still think this team can go win a game or two in the NCAA tournament.  Or...it can lose to about anybody.  4 more wins and Indiana is solidly in the field.   Here's hoping.

110% agree. I think if Archie lands some kind of shooter, has TJD/Rome/Phin/Race/Brunk all firing and the new guys coming in...and STILL has the same issues, then it’s time for him to go. Next season there will be zero excuses by anybody, and everything will be laid out on the table.

That’s why (again) I’m not fully in the “Fire Archie” camp just yet. Next year is the absolute last chance. 

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

110% agree. I think if Archie lands some kind of shooter, has TJD/Rome/Phin/Race/Brunk all firing and the new guys coming in...and STILL has the same issues, then it’s time for him to go. Next season there will be zero excuses by anybody, and everything will be laid out on the table.
That’s why (again) I’m not fully in the “Fire Archie” camp just yet. Next year is the absolute last chance. 

I’m not firmly in the fire Archie camp, but why is next year so important? Why is it more important than this one? Why should we expect anything different?

This year is pivotal to me - 3rd year and trending downward down the stretch again in another year where our post season life is again in jeopardy.

Still doing the same stuff as years 1 and 2. Slow, plodding, motionless offense, no shooters, no slashers and can’t get the ball into the post and go through long long scoreless stretches multiple times a game without a timeout, without a sure fire play to break out of the funk.

Defensively we aren’t great. I’ve seen worse but we don’t do the fundamentals well. Hedging our on every play despite the opponent sending their screener to the basket for open dunks or kick outs to for wide open 3s. Standing around and not blocking out when the shot goes up. No fire, no energy

It’s draining to watch, like watching paint dry


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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

Our defense has actually taken a backslide from last year by a decent margin. 

[TheWatShot 13,335]

3 hours ago, Honkyman said:

 I agree next season will tell us if this is headed in the right direction--especially if Trayce Jackson Davis returns (I've seen his name in the late 1st round on mock draft boards). 

Where did you see that? Nbadraft.net, bleacher report,  tankathon.com, NBC Sports and cbssports don't list him anywhere. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,940]

43 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Still doing the same stuff as years 1 and 2. Slow, plodding, motionless offense, no shooters, no slashers and can’t get the ball into the post and go through long long scoreless stretches multiple times a game without a timeout, without a sure fire play to break out of the funk.

It’s draining to watch, like watching paint dry

On groundhog day; our basketball is groundhog day.  

[TheWatShot 13,335]

4 hours ago, Old Friend said:

  Is Indiana on the right track or not?

If we're asking this question more than halfway through Year 3, then I think we already know the answer. 

[triple 408]

17 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m not firmly in the fire Archie camp, but why is next year so important? Why is it more important than this one? Why should we expect anything different?

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I agree.  If the tide does not turn soon there will be consequences (bottom 3-4 finish, missed dance, self-inflicted obstacles to future recruiting success, and yet more normalization of a program culture that leads to mediocracy).  We have the talent to win every remaining game.  And at this point if Archie told/allowed them to play street ball I suspect we'd improve.  That's on him.  He needs to unlock the mental obstacles that have infected the team and get back to playing basic basketball and, gulp, dare I say having fun.    

[Alford Bailey 12,246]

1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m not firmly in the fire Archie camp, but why is next year so important? Why is it more important than this one? Why should we expect anything different?

This year is pivotal to me - 3rd year and trending downward down the stretch again in another year where our post season life is again in jeopardy.

Still doing the same stuff as years 1 and 2. Slow, plodding, motionless offense, no shooters, no slashers and can’t get the ball into the post and go through long long scoreless stretches multiple times a game without a timeout, without a sure fire play to break out of the funk.

Defensively we aren’t great. I’ve seen worse but we don’t do the fundamentals well. Hedging our on every play despite the opponent sending their screener to the basket for open dunks or kick outs to for wide open 3s. Standing around and not blocking out when the shot goes up. No fire, no energy

It’s draining to watch, like watching paint dry


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Nothing suggests anything different. We hover just below or just above the line of a tourney team. No great recruiting class that moves the needle. All hopes are on 2021 class but nothing says that comes to fruition.

[8bucks 6,118]

110% agree. I think if Archie lands some kind of shooter, has TJD/Rome/Phin/Race/Brunk all firing and the new guys coming in...and STILL has the same issues, then it’s time for him to go. Next season there will be zero excuses by anybody, and everything will be laid out on the table.
That’s why (again) I’m not fully in the “Fire Archie” camp just yet. Next year is the absolute last chance. 

I understand and want to have hope this will occur. But, it looks like we only have 1 shooter coming in next year. As a 4 star kid he may or may not be the answer right away next year. I also wonder if Al and Smith will be “not Archie guys” and so we cannot really decide Archie’s capability until Rob is a senior. That is a long time to wait.

I just don’t get the idea that if Green and DD are hurting us why they play at all. Lose the stinking game with walk ons before putting them in. As long as they get minutes they can’t be used as a scapegoat for our struggles


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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m not firmly in the fire Archie camp, but why is next year so important? Why is it more important than this one? Why should we expect anything different?

This year is pivotal to me - 3rd year and trending downward down the stretch again in another year where our post season life is again in jeopardy.

Still doing the same stuff as years 1 and 2. Slow, plodding, motionless offense, no shooters, no slashers and can’t get the ball into the post and go through long long scoreless stretches multiple times a game without a timeout, without a sure fire play to break out of the funk.

Defensively we aren’t great. I’ve seen worse but we don’t do the fundamentals well. Hedging our on every play despite the opponent sending their screener to the basket for open dunks or kick outs to for wide open 3s. Standing around and not blocking out when the shot goes up. No fire, no energy

It’s draining to watch, like watching paint dry


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Because next season, his recruits are upper classmen and he gets rid of all of the poison.  Certainly you understand the importance of all of that?   You and everyone else who doesn't like him can stop trying to convince everyone else how awful he is any old time.   Most of you haven't acknowledged the bigger picture which DOES include health; DOES include on-court leadership - which we don't have.  DeVonte Green is a captain.  Let THAT sink in.

I agree with the effort and offensive stuff, but unless you;re blind; you can see the differences when Green's in the game and when he isn't.   Also, unless you're blind, you can see Indiana gets plenty of good looks...Archie can't make layups or uncontested 3's for them.  No coach can design an offense to get wide open dunks every possession.  His strategy is to get old and stay old.  His recruits are now sophomores.  That's why next season is critical.

 

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

4 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Because next season, his recruits are upper classmen and he gets rid of all of the poison.  Certainly you understand the importance of all of that?   You and everyone else who doesn't like him can stop trying to convince everyone else how awful he is any old time.   Most of you haven't acknowledged the bigger picture which DOES include health; DOES include on-court leadership - which we don't have.  DeVonte Green is a captain.  Let THAT sink in.

I agree with the effort and offensive stuff, but unless you;re blind; you can see the differences when Green's in the game and when he isn't.   Also, unless you're blind, you can see Indiana gets plenty of good looks...Archie can't make layups or uncontested 3's for them.  No coach can design an offense to get wide open dunks every possession.  His strategy is to get old and stay old.  His recruits are now sophomores.  That's why next season is critical.

 

And Archie chooses to play Devonte. You can’t blame him for being a problem when Archie allows him to be one. 

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

Because next season, his recruits are upper classmen and he gets rid of all of the poison.  Certainly you understand the importance of all of that?   You and everyone else who doesn't like him can stop trying to convince everyone else how awful he is any old time.   Most of you haven't acknowledged the bigger picture which DOES include health; DOES include on-court leadership - which we don't have.  DeVonte Green is a captain.  Let THAT sink in.
I agree with the effort and offensive stuff, but unless you;re blind; you can see the differences when Green's in the game and when he isn't.   Also, unless you're blind, you can see Indiana gets plenty of good looks...Archie can't make layups or uncontested 3's for them.  No coach can design an offense to get wide open dunks every possession.  His strategy is to get old and stay old.  His recruits are now sophomores.  That's why next season is critical.
 

Come on now, we’ve had years of cordial responses, no need to suggest I am blind. I also haven’t mentioned firing Archie and all complaints I have made about him live in this one thread that was built for said comments.

His recruits or not, he has not only kept Crean’s guys but he plays them. They have been with Archie for 3 years and if they are cancers or unable to learn his system, whatever that may be, that’s on him to replace them - he hasn’t so he doesn’t get a pass.

He actually left 2 scholarships open, not used, wasted. If he wanted to be old and stay old, maybe use those on some grad transfers that can come in and help, perhaps replacing those two cancers that Crean recruited. Maybe, just maybe one of those guys could put the ball in the basket? Then he would have an entire roster of HIS guys and his guys in every single class... it was there for him to do that and he didn’t and that is on him, no excuses



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[Josh 12,360]

This team is incredibly healthy.  Using that excuse (with many other excuses) is lazy.

[8bucks 6,118]

This team is incredibly healthy.  Using that excuse (with many other excuses) is lazy.

Well some of those guys don’t count. Only Rob, Hunter, Jackson, Brunk and Franklin do. Rob and Hunter were injured so we have only had 3 Archie guys healthy.


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[kreigh8 2,008]

With how much we struggle to score I think it’s a big assumption that we’d be better off without Green on the team. Time will tell obviously, but I don’t feel confident that next year automatically will be better without him barring some incoming transfers as I don’t think the recruiting class will immediately fix our shooting and scoring woes. I’m a Archie fan but I tend to  agree with the questioning of pocketing those scholarships. Either he struck out on guards this year or he poorly assessed the talent level of the guards he had. Hoping for the best

[JSHoosier 19,559]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

And Archie chooses to play Devonte. You can’t blame him for being a problem when Archie allows him to be one. 

Plays him and hasn't held him accountable.

[JSHoosier 19,559]

29 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

With how much we struggle to score I think it’s a big assumption that we’d be better off without Green on the team. Time will tell obviously, but I don’t feel confident that next year automatically will be better without him barring some incoming transfers as I don’t think the recruiting class will immediately fix our shooting and scoring woes. I’m a Archie fan but I tend to  agree with the questioning of pocketing those scholarships. Either he struck out on guards this year or he poorly assessed the talent level of the guards he had. Hoping for the best

The 25% of the time that Green is actually good doesn't help much, and is outweighed by the other 75% where he shouldn't be playing.

[Josh 12,360]

Green gets a lot of blame on here, but Rob, Al, Armaan and Damezi are equally terrible.