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Bigred3588

Inclined to Give Archie a Break

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20 hours ago, Bigred3588 said:

I completely understand our fan base’s impatience but I just don’t see 3 years as enough time to establish consistency. I think you can win in that amount of time by taking what you have and catering to your strengths, but you can’t do that and establish a system at the same time. Adapting to your roster also affects recruiting because it makes it difficult to pitch a kid on their role.

As painful as it is to watch, a winning program has to be built. It can be expedited with the right transfers and/or recruits but that isn’t guaranteed. It can also be done with talent and a basic scheme. Unfortunately, in our case, we’re building for a system that’s predicated on chemistry. It’s also a system that isn’t commonly used at lower levels. With a 3 year time frame, you’re basically telling Archie “You have 3 years to implement a chemistry-based system to players that have never practiced it and may or may not know each other. Oh, by the way, you’re inheriting a team that wasn’t required to play defense and you won’t have any players that you recruited in your first year. We’re gonna need you to deal with it and wait until year 2 to really get started. Half of the team will be guys that you recruited, and I’m sure they’ll pick it right up. You should really be rolling by year 3. If all those 18 and 19 year olds aren’t finishing near the top of the conference, you’re fired.”

3 years to make the dance and show consistency in the years to follow. If we don’t make the NCAAs next year then bye Felecia. 

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I’m beginning to believe that our decades long run of mediocrity and inability to sustain success, has little to do with who’s the coach.
I agree. This is just becoming a typical winter of watching bad basketball and mussing the ncaa again.

The nba must be expecting romeo to just drive the hoop i guees. He is 0 of 13 from three the last four games. He is averaging 7 points a game the last three. And mr knock down the three spread the floor fitzner wad 0 fot 4 from three tonight. This is the worst shooting iu team i have ever seen.

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6 hours ago, Chris007 said:

My problem with Juwan this year is how many times has he picked up quick fouls to start the game. You can't lead by example sitting on the sidelines, plus we have to have him on the court for us to have a chance to win. 

Some of the blame for the fouls being made in the extended court could be placed on Archie, as it is the coach who is asking him to come out and constantly set screens.  Many of his other fouls inside could be blamed on the roster, as he is constantly asked to guard players much bigger than he is...often doing it quite successfully.  Yes, he makes some dumb fouls occasionally (and they drive me nuts too)...but no more than any other college basketball player asked to do as much as Juwan is asked to do ("we have to have him on the court for us to have a chance to win").  Occasionally picking up dumb fouls could probably be pinned on about every "leader" from every team...possibly any player on any team regardless of their leadership role.  And Juwan is averaging 30 minutes a game.  With a healthy and capable roster he would be allowed to rest a few minutes each game.

I stand by my earlier statement that Juwan is the leader of this team and I believe he is more than capable. 

 

As for BigRed's comment about press conferences, he has placed blame on himself and given the glory to others...repetitively.  No, he's not screaming at players during games, but I see him talking in huddles and even calling players out.  Maybe he's not a BIG ENOUGH a-hole to be a leader.  What would I know?  

And as for demanding the ball, I see him desperately wanting the ball on a regular basis.  The team just loses him in their offense too often.  Tonight was a good example of that.  He should have had the ball in his hands much more, but instead players were tossing up errant long-range bombs.  Tonight, Green was on the bench.  And as much as many people hate Devonte's play, I still think he's by a large margin the most capable player at feeding the post.  It seems to me without Green, Juwan gets far fewer handles per play than with him.  

 

All is just my two cents.  I understand people see things differently.

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43 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

I agree. This is just becoming a typical winter of watching bad basketball and mussing the ncaa again.

The nba must be expecting romeo to just drive the hoop i guees. He is 0 of 13 from three the last four games. He is averaging 7 points a game the last three. And mr knock down the three spread the floor fitzner wad 0 fot 4 from three tonight. This is the worst shooting iu team i have ever seen.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 

Yep, we need some shooting clinics.  I've said it before more than once...bring back Tim Buckley or someone like him who knows how to make shooters better.  The commentators talked about how every player leaves Ann Arbor a better shooter.  Why can't that be the case in Bloomington?  Buckley helped poor shooters become better, and in some cases, helped them become great.  Granted, he was also blessed to be with a team full of overachievers with an endless desire to improve and take full advantage of the 24/7 access of Cook Hall (Hulls, Oladipo, Watford, etc).

This is one of the worst shooting teams I can recall in recent memory as well, and much of the team can't even hit free throws.  That requires middle school level clinicians.  Why are they back to shooting so horribly from the line?

We need a shooting clinic.  Then, after the clinic, an entire off-season of shooting for at least a couple hours twice a day.

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2 hours ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’m beginning to believe that our decades long run of mediocrity and inability to sustain success, has little to do with who’s the coach.

That's what I've been saying! RMK needs to visit the Hall and exercise the demons away that have taken up residency since he left.

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7 hours ago, Bigred3588 said:

Took me a minute to find it...

6C4085FF-2342-49FB-8043-A9C05A1067DD.jpeg

This is real...and if I'm not mistaken, he makes more money per year at OSU with less pressure.  Some from Indiana's fanbase already want Archie fired halfway through season two.  The reality is that giving coaches two seasons only on a recurring basis will lead to nothing in terms of recruiting efforts and building rosters, team chemistry, understanding of playbooks...the list goes on and on.

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9 minutes ago, ray said:

This is real...and if I'm not mistaken, he makes more money per year at OSU with less pressure.  Some from Indiana's fanbase already want Archie fired halfway through season two.  The reality is that giving coaches two seasons only on a recurring basis will lead to nothing in terms of recruiting efforts and building rosters, team chemistry, understanding of playbooks...the list goes on and on.

I think disappointment, rather than firing him, is a more accurate description of some in the fan base. At this point it would be hard to say we have been “pleasantly surprised” with the progress/results.

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25 minutes ago, ray said:

This is real...and if I'm not mistaken, he makes more money per year at OSU with less pressure.  Some from Indiana's fanbase already want Archie fired halfway through season two.  The reality is that giving coaches two seasons only on a recurring basis will lead to nothing in terms of recruiting efforts and building rosters, team chemistry, understanding of playbooks...the list goes on and on.

Yup, but I wouldn't waste too much time trying to convince other posters of this. I've written quite a few posts in this thread trying to explain these things but they feel it can be done overnight. Personally, I can only recall seeing one coach pull that off (Calipari), but apparently it's the norm. Either way, it doesn't really matter because they aren't going to get what they want. Miller would've explained that it's a system that takes time to implement, so I don't see Miller being at risk for at least 3 or 4 more years. And if he wanted to clean house but was unable due to APR as has been stated on this board, that buys him even more leeway. 

As far as Morgan is concerned, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. When I watch his body language on the court and during press conferences, I just don't see a leader. And even if i'm wrong and i'm just not noticing it, the players aren't responding which is a respect issue. That's even worse than lack of a leader; especially in our system.

I'm not overly concerned with the shooting woes. Ed Shilling has a well established background as a developer of talent and it will obviously be a point of emphasis in the off season. I'll be pretty surprised if we don't see much better shooting next season.

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12 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

Goodman is spot on
 

 


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Sort of.  Crean left behind Juwan, RoJo, Cujo, Davis, and Green.  Archie also signed up Crean's recruits.  

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Just now, Rico said:

Sort of.  Crean left behind Juwan, RoJo, Cujo, Davis, and Green.  Archie also signed up Crean's recruits.  

It wasn't Archie's choice to keep Crean's recruits. Archie has also had his hands somewhat tied due to our APR. 

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https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john-beilein-on-archie-millers-challenge-the-only-way-to-do-it-is-culture/

I think everyone should read this article. I’m bullish on the future because I’m beginning to see the culture in a few of our young guys. Rob and Al are the future of our team and they show that Indiana grit. We just have to be patient imo


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16 minutes ago, HoosierDYT said:

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john-beilein-on-archie-millers-challenge-the-only-way-to-do-it-is-culture/

I think everyone should read this article. I’m bullish on the future because I’m beginning to see the culture in a few of our young guys. Rob and Al are the future of our team and they show that Indiana grit. We just have to be patient imo


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I love Mike's articles.

But I wish he would have touched on another thing in this one.  The Romeo factor.

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Yep, we need some shooting clinics.  I've said it before more than once...bring back Tim Buckley or someone like him who knows how to make shooters better.  The commentators talked about how every player leaves Ann Arbor a better shooter.  Why can't that be the case in Bloomington?  Buckley helped poor shooters become better, and in some cases, helped them become great.  Granted, he was also blessed to be with a team full of overachievers with an endless desire to improve and take full advantage of the 24/7 access of Cook Hall (Hulls, Oladipo, Watford, etc).
This is one of the worst shooting teams I can recall in recent memory as well, and much of the team can't even hit free throws.  That requires middle school level clinicians.  Why are they back to shooting so horribly from the line?
We need a shooting clinic.  Then, after the clinic, an entire off-season of shooting for at least a couple hours twice a day.

People keep saying how bad our shooters are. It’s not that, they are getting worse.

Why are our players not getting better but getting worse at free throw and 3 point shooting?

That’s alarming


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People keep saying how bad our shooters are. It’s not that, they are getting worse.

Why are our players not getting better but getting worse at free throw and 3 point shooting?

That’s alarming


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I think at this point it’s mental more than anything.


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https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john-beilein-on-archie-millers-challenge-the-only-way-to-do-it-is-culture/

 

I think everyone should read this article. I’m bullish on the future because I’m beginning to see the culture in a few of our young guys. Rob and Al are the future of our team and they show that Indiana grit. We just have to be patient imo

 

 

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I've been bullish throughout this losing streak. Our play sucks right now. There is no argument from me there. I yell at the TV throughout the game. I just choose not to dwell about a game for days. However, I do not believe after 1 recruiting class and essentially being "forced" to keep the players from Crean era Including the 17 recruits because of APR, Archie's program isn't even close to being established. Unfortunately, we live in an era of instant gratification, where if it doesn't work out right away, lets blow it up and start all over. Has the AD made some suspect hires for coaches? You bet. But I really do feel we have the right coach and once his program is established, we will be happy. Have I been wrong before? Sure, my wife tells me that everyday.

 

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https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/john-beilein-on-archie-millers-challenge-the-only-way-to-do-it-is-culture/

I think everyone should read this article. I’m bullish on the future because I’m beginning to see the culture in a few of our young guys. Rob and Al are the future of our team and they show that Indiana grit. We just have to be patient imo


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Nope. None of this is true. All you need to know about the IU program is that they suck and will always suck. Archie Miller might be THE WORST basketball coach of all time. Clif Marshall only knows football. The players actually want to lose every game from here on out. Oh,yeah...despite the national rankings saying otherwise, our defense is the most putrid to ever grace a hoops floor. What did I miss? Maybe that no recruit will ever want to play at IU....ever...and it’s all because of drop ceilings. Does that about cover it?


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I have a question about the APR issue. Several have repeated that the Crean recruits had to be retained because of APR. Why if they never enrolled? I thought it was because no one better was available in April 2017. I also heard it was because we had OG, Bryant, Blackmon leave early. Why do U.K. and Duke not have problems? Were our guys not going to class and their players were in good academic standing?

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