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Uspshoosier

(2020) SG Trey Galloway To IU

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3 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

I like Trey Galloway, I like his attitude, his energy, etc.  I don't know if I would be disappointed if he continued to play heavy minutes this coming season. But the fact remains that IU's greatest liability last season was 3-point shooting, which also happens to be Galloway's greatest weakness. If other players demonstrate they can shoot significantly better than he does this season, their playing time will increase at the expense of Trey's. It's not just Bates and Jalen Hood-Schifino who could take time away. CJ Gunn could also cut into Galloway's time if he can demonstrate he shoot and play defense at the college level. 

FWIW, I fully expect that CJ Gunn's ability to shoot in practice competition will be severely diminished when he is guarded by...

Trey Galloway.

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6 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

I like Trey Galloway, I like his attitude, his energy, etc.  I don't know if I would be disappointed if he continued to play heavy minutes this coming season. But the fact remains that IU's greatest liability last season was 3-point shooting, which also happens to be Galloway's greatest weakness. If other players demonstrate they can shoot significantly better than he does this season, their playing time will increase at the expense of Trey's. It's not just Bates and Jalen Hood-Schifino who could take time away. CJ Gunn could also cut into Galloway's time if he can demonstrate he shoot and play defense at the college level. 

CJ Gunn won't be cutting into anyone's playing time this year. That is very "new shiny thing". 

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8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

If you want to talk about “vs Big 10 level competition,” it’s 9-8, not 12-8. Two of the 12 wins were against cupcakes. A third win, the one against St. John’s, he played 4 minutes before breaking his wrist. We need better guard play. That’s not debatable. If he improves enough to give that better guard play, great. If he’s similar to last year and plays heavy minutes I will be disappointed. If that’s “unfathomable” to you, oh well. We need better guard play that what Trey Galloway has given. 

There is really no reason to set your expectations and standards in May. We are going to win a lot of games next year and TG is going to be the 6th or 7th man and an integral part of that. There are so many facets to basketball, outside of the 3pt shot. 

And.. ok... 9-8 vs. B10 compeition. We went 9-11 in the conference, so again, we were a better team with TG. There is absolutely no arguing that. 

How about games @syracuse, @UW, @OSU, Rutgers, @PU @PSU--- two of those in OT, the other 4 games we lost by a total of 13pts. You don't think he is a difference-maker in those games? Look how important he was vs. Purdue, Michigan, ILL, etc. So important down the stretch of games, or just in general. 

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

That is very "new shiny thing". 

Not sure how Gunn could be a "new shiny thing." He's the last guy in the incoming class that anyone mentions.

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23 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Not sure how Gunn could be a "new shiny thing." He's the last guy in the incoming class that anyone mentions.

Because he is a FR that we know nothing about and is 175lbs who only shot 37% from 3 in HS, and before that, it wasn't even that high. He isn't a sharpshooter, at all. = new shiny thing. He isn't a viable option. 

I don't mean to be disrespectful saying this... but CJ Gunn isn't unseating Trey Galloway for any mins, and personally, I think the coaching staff would laugh at that assertion or possibility. Bates game has much more needed development than TG does, to be more impactful this season. 

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15 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I think the coaching staff would laugh at that assertion or possibility.

You have no idea what the coaching staff is thinking. In any event, Tamar Bates is the more talented player and is much more likely to have more playing time by the end of the year than Tre Galloway.

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7 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

You have no idea what the coaching staff is thinking. In any event, Tamar Bates is the more talented player and is much more likely to have more playing time by the end of the year than Tre Galloway.

It just isn't hard to see Trey's value, and that is why I said "personally this is what I think". To assert TG's mins are going to drop... I think would be laughed at. It makes no sense. 

And yes, I agree, TB is likely to play more mins, that isn't overly relevant though. This isn't an either/or thing, but the point stands... there are more elements to TB's game that he has to work on, than TG does, to have a big impact on our team in 22-23. TB was a lost puppy dog defensively and was incredibly inefficient offensively last season. 

TB has a pretty sizable jump to make in multiple areas, Trey needs to improve one area a marginal amount. This isn't a comparison, both are going to play 18mpg+... past that, not sure, that will be decided in the coming months. 

Personally, I do think TB makes that jump and TG is one HELLUVA backup, as he was last year. 

 

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2 hours ago, btownqb said:

It just isn't hard to see Trey's value, and that is why I said "personally this is what I think". To assert TG's mins are going to drop... I think would be laughed at. It makes no sense. 

And yes, I agree, TB is likely to play more mins, that isn't overly relevant though. This isn't an either/or thing, but the point stands... there are more elements to TB's game that he has to work on, than TG does, to have a big impact on our team in 22-23. TB was a lost puppy dog defensively and was incredibly inefficient offensively last season. 

TB has a pretty sizable jump to make in multiple areas, Trey needs to improve one area a marginal amount. This isn't a comparison, both are going to play 18mpg+... past that, not sure, that will be decided in the coming months. 

Personally, I do think TB makes that jump and TG is one HELLUVA backup, as he was last year. 

 

Great points! I'm not sure why people think Galloway and Bates are an either/or thing. 

We lost Stewart, Phinisee and Lander from the backcourt/wing minutes. I'd expect Kopp's 25mpg to go down and how much that goes down should go to Bates. Boom, Bates just got his minutes increases, assuming he can make big leaps in defense, effort, decision making, shooting, ball handling, etc. 

JHS's minutes come from Stewart's 24.4 mpg. 

So right there we just increased Bates' minutes and got JHS his minutes and we haven't touched Galloway's or the left over minutes from Phinisee and Lander leaving. 

It's pretty glaringly easy to see how at worst Galloway's minutes will stay the same, especially given that he probably has the most unique skill set of that group. 

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46 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

You have no idea what the coaching staff is thinking.

No, but we can make some inferences based on their actions last season. It seemed to me that Galloway was one of their more trusted players on defense and handling the ball. I’d be surprised if Woody is planning on having Galloway take a backseat this upcoming year. They are probably hoping he expands his offensive game like everyone else. 

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To quote the defensive mastermind Tom Crean, Galloway's defensive "deflections" are uniquely outstanding and a big reason why IU's team defense has been so good. Him and X also pressure the ball very well - they make it really challenging for opposing guards to effectively pass the ball.

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22 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

The effort put into denying, ignoring and belittling Galloway's value to the team is simply amazing. 

FWIW, I don't see very much denying, ignoring, or belittling Gallo's value. 

It's more like a few don't think he's as good as others such as Tamar will be, and the Galloway fan club (I am a charter member) are rushing to Trey's on-line defense!  Honkyman and 2017 know their stuff -- they just prefer lots more Bates and maybe more Gunn, with less Gallo.

In all fairness, I generally believe that Galloway's jump shot will never be all that good, and that Bates and probably Gunn have a higher ceiling on offense. But Galloway can be effective on offense as a guy that doesn't need to have the ball in his hands all that much, and he is a major plus on the defensive end which makes it all worthwhile.

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3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

FWIW, I don't see very much denying, ignoring, or belittling Gallo's value. 

It's more like a few don't think he's as good as others such as Tamar will be, and the Galloway fan club (I am a charter member) are rushing to Trey's on-line defense!                 :)

I don't think it is all intentional but it is there just the same. A lot of it certainly comes from the being overly fixated on shooting to the exclusion of everything else. 

It has been suggested, apparently seriously, that Gunn would be taking minutes from Galloway after all. Gunn certainly has the tools and potential to be a strong contributor down the road but Galloway will most likely be eating his lunch and charging him for the privilege for the foreseeable future.  

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3 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

I don't think it is all intentional but it is there just the same. A lot of it certainly comes from the being overly fixated on shooting to the exclusion of everything else. 

It has been suggested, apparently seriously, that Gunn would be taking minutes from Galloway after all. Gunn certainly has the tools and potential to be a strong contributor down the road but Galloway will most likely be eating his lunch and charging him for the privilege for the foreseeable future.  

Yeah, I don't think Mr. Gunn will have too much fun in practice this year, same with Mr. Banks. I think they will be immensely better for it, though. 

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2 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

FWIW, I don't see very much denying, ignoring, or belittling Gallo's value. 

It's more like a few don't think he's as good as others such as Tamar will be, and the Galloway fan club (I am a charter member) are rushing to Trey's on-line defense!  Honkyman and 2017 know their stuff -- they just prefer lots more Bates and maybe more Gunn, with less Gallo.

In all fairness, I generally believe that Galloway's jump shot will never be all that good, and that Bates and probably Gunn have a higher ceiling on offense. But Galloway can be effective on offense as a guy that doesn't need to have the ball in his hands all that much, and he is a major plus on the defensive end which makes it all worthwhile.

nailed it.

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2 hours ago, hoosierbgh said:

The effort put into denying, ignoring and belittling Galloway's value to the team is simply amazing. 

Nobody is "denying, ignoring and belittling Galloway's value" that I have seen. Speaking for myself, I written many times I love the guy's heart, energy, and leadership. He was an important contributor last year. But inevitably playing time changes from year-to-year. Corrections are made to make the team better and give it a better chance of winning the close games. It is a fact that IU needs better outside shooting than it showed last season. The lack of consistent 3-point shooting was the team's greatest weakness last year. Whomever can provide consistent 3-point shooting stands a better chance of playing than those who cannot. Otherwise, IU risks having the same kind of season as last year (barely making the tournament).  That isn't belittling anyone. If Galloway shows himself to be the guy who can hit the outside shot in critical moments, then he could be playing in critical moments. If not and there are others who can hit those shots, those players will likely be on the floor more often in those critical moments.

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58 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Nobody is "denying, ignoring and belittling Galloway's value" that I have seen. Speaking for myself, I written many times I love the guy's heart, energy, and leadership. He was an important contributor last year. But inevitably playing time changes from year-to-year. Corrections are made to make the team better and give it a better chance of winning the close games. It is a fact that IU needs better outside shooting than it showed last season. The lack of consistent 3-point shooting was the team's greatest weakness last year. Whomever can provide consistent 3-point shooting stands a better chance of playing than those who cannot. Otherwise, IU risks having the same kind of season as last year (barely making the tournament).  That isn't belittling anyone. If Galloway shows himself to be the guy who can hit the outside shot in critical moments, then he could be playing in critical moments. If not and there are others who can hit those shots, those players will likely be on the floor more often in those critical moments.

I certainly do not think you have belittled or denied Galloway's value, and agree with Stu it's more that you and 2017 just don't think he'll be as good -- without a jumper -- as others such as Bates will be. 

But I do think you're discounting the contributions he has shown he brings on both ends (especially defensively) while overvaluing the need for him to shoot from deep. He'd be better all-around for sure if he could hit well from deep. But his contribution to  wins, when healthy, is beyond clear, and has already been covered in this thread. He plays similar to another point, when he's on the floor the ball moves better, we score more effectively, and the overall D is clearly better. A few stats to add to the mix --

Assists per 100 Poss: he was 3rd on team at 5.1 (excluding Lander and Leal who barely played) the other 2 are X and Rob - so he assisted behind the two points.

Steals per 100 Poss: he was 1st (excluding Duncomb). His D including lane reads is strong.

FG% 4th (excluding Childress and Duncomb). Behind only TJD, Race and JG.

Points per 100 Poss: 6th (excluding Duncomb, Lander, Childress)

Win shares: 7th

On the other hand, the stats also show areas he needs to improve on, beyond 3-point shooting, including

Boards per 100 - last on team. That's kind of surprising to me but it's accurate.

TO's per 100 - 3.8, 3rd highest on team (excluding the usuals). Like JG, he has to improve his handle.

FT 65% - that's a real need

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/2022.html

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Nobody is "denying, ignoring and belittling Galloway's value" that I have seen. Speaking for myself, I written many times I love the guy's heart, energy, and leadership. He was an important contributor last year. But inevitably playing time changes from year-to-year. Corrections are made to make the team better and give it a better chance of winning the close games. It is a fact that IU needs better outside shooting than it showed last season. The lack of consistent 3-point shooting was the team's greatest weakness last year. Whomever can provide consistent 3-point shooting stands a better chance of playing than those who cannot. Otherwise, IU risks having the same kind of season as last year (barely making the tournament).  That isn't belittling anyone. If Galloway shows himself to be the guy who can hit the outside shot in critical moments, then he could be playing in critical moments. If not and there are others who can hit those shots, those players will likely be on the floor more often in those critical moments.

But there's more to being on the floor in critical moments than just hitting threes. Galloway (when healthy) was playing ahead of IU's best 3 point shooter Stewart and 3rd best in Kopp in close games down the stretch. And for a guy likes Bates, he would have needed to be shooting 40%+ from 3 to offset is defense to be taking minutes from Galloway down the stretch. (Not arguing what Bates' defense and all around game will continue to look like that, just demonstrating that it will take a lot more than shooting to start limit Galloway's minutes)

And Galloway's presence was critical. IU had 13 close games (within 5 points at the end of regulation). With Galloway out, IU was 2-6 in  close games (counting him out for St Johns because he was injured early and didn't play many minutes). The 2 wins were against St Johns and Minny, poor teams that IU should have beaten by larger margins - Galloway's presence likely prevents those games from being close. IU was 3-2 in close games with Galloway.

And I'd argue that 3's are somewhat overrated. IU had a 33.3% 3 point percentage, better than 3 sweet 16 teams, and were within a percentage point of 4 more.

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2 hours ago, Honkyman said:

 The lack of consistent 3-point shooting was the team's greatest weakness last year. Whomever can provide consistent 3-point shooting stands a better chance of playing than those who cannot. 

Agree to sentence #1, and disagree with sentence #2. 

Based on what I've read so far on this thread, the ability to hit the 3 pt shot is a pre-requisite for playing time from most of the posts. If you have 2-3 guys that can shoot the 3, I would gladly play a player that is a stellar defender AND has the ability to create and get the ball to the right shooters at the right time. He doesn't have to shoot the 3. TG was probably the 4th option to shoot last year. I don't think we need 5 guys on the floor to be able to shoot the 3 ball. 2-3 consistent shooters and 1 viable threat to shoot the 3 is plenty IMO, especially if you have any inside game at all.

If Jordy is allowed to work with the guys on the floor in practice I think you'll see some real improvement.

But for now, the coaching staff trusts TG to play his way, and to his strengths. I don't see his minutes diminishing, but his role may change somewhat with addition of other "shooters" on the team.

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