Corruption in College Basketball

[ebridges24 2,315]

45 minutes ago, Indy said:

Re: Zion and the claims of improper benefits

1.  As much as I'd love to see Duke hit, it's one of those schools that, IMO, does not need to do things like this to get top talent.  Kids know what that name on the jersey does for their NBA prospects, and playing/developing under Coach K is a huge advantage.  I really do find this hard to believe, that Duke would have to resort to these tactics, whether directly or through back channels, to land a kid like Zion

 

2. Even if this does in fact turn out to be true, I do not for one single second believe anything will happen to Duke. Ever. 

I tend to agree, except with the top ten type guys. I believe they do have to play dirty to get some of these guys.

[mdn82 25,464]

I tend to agree, except with the top ten type guys. I believe they do have to play dirty to get some of these guys.

Yeah, nobody will ever tell me Zion didn’t get paid (he should with all of the money everyone made off of him). But like a Semi Ojeleye we were both in on, I doubt he is getting much. They always seem to have a guy or two per year that’s the allure of Duke guy. A Plumlee, a Jack White, etc. They do seem to be in more money players in recent years. When you get 1, 2, and 3 you stretched your budget.


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[Stuhoo 75,797]

3 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Yeah, nobody will ever tell me Zion didn’t get paid (he should with all of the money everyone made off of him). But like a Semi Ojeleye we were both in on, I doubt he is getting much. They always seem to have a guy or two per year that’s the allure of Duke guy. A Plumlee, a Jack White, etc. They do seem to be in more money players in recent years. When you get 1, 2, and 3 you stretched your budget.


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He may be getting a lot of $$, but it is likely directly from the shoe company or agent, without the university needing to be involved.

And there you have the reason that Duke and K will likely escape unscathed from all of this.

 

[HoosierAloha 29,900]

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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[mdn82 25,464]

 
He may be getting a lot of $$, but it is likely directly from the shoe company or agent, without the university needing to be involved.
And there you have the reason that Duke and K will likely escape unscathed from all of this.
 

For sure. But that’s what makes this whole FBI case interesting. Their whole case rests on the agent being a booster. That’s all five level 1’s for Kansas. If this goes through that won’t be a possible excuse anymore.


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[323SGrant 1,176]

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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I believe Duke has been cheating for years, just as some other schools have.


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[Bigred3588 1,532]

20 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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Bingo. Coach K may be better at shielding himself that some other coaches, but there's no doubt in my mind that he plays the game. Anyone remember Lance Thomas being sued for jewelry he purchased while he was a student at Duke? How do people think a college kid could afford a $30,000 down payment that was made before his senior season ended? Or how about the time Coach K was caught making contact with a player outside of the permissible time frames. Naturally, because it's Coach K and Duke, the NCAA swept the Thomas situation under the rug and suspended punishment for the recruiting violation until they had a chance to change the recruiting time frames. Coach K walked away unscathed after committing the same type of violation that turned our program upside down.

[Stuhoo 75,797]

26 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

For sure. But that’s what makes this whole FBI case interesting. Their whole case rests on the agent being a booster. That’s all five level 1’s for Kansas. If this goes through that won’t be a possible excuse anymore.


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The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 

So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.

 

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 

So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.

 

That’s thing that gets me. Self and Wade aren’t going to get punished(if they do) for cheating. They will basically be punished for be cocky about it. 

[AKHoosier 6,592]

For everyone thinking Duke and Coach K will be unharmed by all this, aren't there new rules that forbid coaches from claiming ignorance?

I thought that was the reason Pitino was going to be hammered by the NCAA since he's the leader of the program, and anything that goes on within the confines of the team, you are ultimately responsible for.

So even if coach K knew nothing about Zion's housing and cash gifts from agents or shoe companies, Duke can still be hammered since it took place at his program.

[HoosierAloha 29,900]

For everyone thinking Duke and Coach K will be unharmed by all this, aren't there new rules that forbid coaches from claiming ignorance?
I thought that was the reason Pitino was going to be hammered by the NCAA since he's the leader of the program, and anything that goes on within the confines of the team, you are ultimately responsible for.
So even if coach K knew nothing about Zion's housing and cash gifts from agents or shoe companies, Duke can still be hammered since it took place at his program.

I believe the infraction against Pitino is level II. He’s basically going to be told he was bad and should sit in the corner for a few minutes.


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[mdn82 25,464]

 
The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 
So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.
 

The only thing I am unsure of is they knew explicit player xxx was going to receive xxx amount. I thought that was going to be the battle. There is enough up for interpretation and let’s be real, they both knew why the other was on the phone. I just don’t why the NCAA won’t put a rule in place to keep runners/bag men away from programs. Why would the people involved to this point need access to a Bill Self? To me that’s where the violation should be. The person would of course change in the future, but it’s ok for rules to evolve.


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[Stuhoo 75,797]

4 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

The only thing I am unsure of is they knew explicit player xxx was going to receive xxx amount. I thought that was going to be the battle. There is enough up for interpretation and let’s be real, they both knew why the other was on the phone. I just don’t why the NCAA won’t put a rule in place to keep runners/bag men away from programs. Why would the people involved to this point need access to a Bill Self? To me that’s where the violation should be. The person would of course change in the future, but it’s ok for rules to evolve.


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Hard to devise a rule to keep "runners/bag men" away from programs. 

Care to define "runners & bag men?"

 

[Hardwood83 4,513]

I have no doubt K is too smart to hand kids bags of cash himself or text openly about it like Self & Wade. However, I am just as certain Duke is as filthy as anyone else and he knows every detail. Nike has a FREAKING STATUE of this %#^&@# in their headquarters. There is a 0% chance Duke isn't cheating on an industrial scale and a negative chance that vaunted Coach K ain't into up to his @$$hole. 

Most likely good result is he suddenly decides to retire for "health reasons" or spend time with his family or some other BS excuse. I hate that rat-faced bastard.

[mdn82 25,464]

 

Hard to devise a rule to keep "runners/bag men" away from programs. 

Care to define "runners & bag men?"

 

Anyone that is a “Consultant” with a shoe company. Why do they have to work through a head coach? Why can’t they go through an AD. Within that relationship there should be parameters. There shouldn’t be 24/7 access to a program for a man whose whole job is relationship management. 100/100 times you will end up with situations like this. If all they are worried about is legitimately branding that can easily be maintained at a higher level. Coaches aren’t allowed to exclusively have final decisions on those things. Phone records could easily sift through that. If there are communications needed you can easily do a virtual meeting that can log that information at the coach level.

 

 

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[Stuhoo 75,797]

9 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Anyone that is a “Consultant” with a shoe company. Why do they have to work through a head coach? Why can’t they go through an AD. Within that relationship there should be parameters. There shouldn’t be 24/7 access to a program for a man whose whole job is relationship management. 100/100 times you will end up with situations like this. If all they are worried about is legitimately branding that can easily be maintained at a higher level. Coaches aren’t allowed to exclusively have final decisions on those things. Phone records could easily sift through that. If there are communications needed you can easily do a virtual meeting that can log that information at the coach level.

 

 

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Now define "consultant."

I get your point and it'd be nice, but the NCAA has a very small investigative staff and it would be darn near impossible to find the affiliations of someone who is not on a shoe company's official employee payroll.

Besides, "runners and bagmen" frequently meet with cousins, friends, and distant hangers on of players away from any scrutiny. That's why the FBI's case was relatively successful; they were able to make law enforcement approved calls which proved intent. The NCAA has very little ability to do that.

 

 

[mdn82 25,464]

 
Now define "consultant."
I get your point and it'd be nice, but the NCAA has a very small investigative staff and it would be darn near impossible to find the affiliations of someone who is not on a shoe company's official employee payroll.
Besides, "runners and bagmen" frequently meet with cousins, friends, and distant hangers on of players away from any scrutiny. That's why the FBI's case was relatively successful; they were able to make law enforcement approved calls which proved intent. The NCAA has very little ability to do that.
 
 

To me a consultant is working on behalf of or with a working interest. They have been able to largely define booster and I don’t see why they couldn’t define someone working on behalf of a shoe company. But your last part goes back to an interesting point about the calls. No they are not able to trace phones, but why when a coach is already using a school provided phone where they have to track contacting recruits can they not track whom they are in contact with on that phone? Obviously they would start using their wife’s phone, etc. But in those events they would be explicitly endangering whomever’s phone by actually committing crimes. Sure there would be some that take that chance, but you can’t plan for everything. Why not try and control what you can?


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[HoosierAloha 29,900]

Why can’t programs just play within the rules..?

There’s too much ******* money and the NCAA is the biggest ******* paper tiger piece of corrupt ****ups outside of FIFA and the IOC. They don’t want to catch these cheating ****s.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,835]

It’s all serves the NCAAs best interests to turn a blind eye.
They make huge money. The amateurism has been a joke for a LONG time for major programs. EVERYONE near a program or following closely can spot it a mile away.

System is broken and it needs reworked.

But first we need to punish the cheaters.

The fact that Indiana punished itself in these times despite what other programs have been doing has had me on fire for years.


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[mdn82 25,464]

Why can’t programs just play within the rules..? There’s too much ******* money and the NCAA is the biggest ******* paper tiger piece of corrupt ****ups outside of FIFA and the IOC. They don’t want to catch these cheating ****s.  

 

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Oh I wouldn’t expect them to. It’s every coaches job to look for any advantage possible. It’s the NCAA’s job to continually improve and adjust the rules with the times. There really isn’t a ton of money outside of March Madness the NCAA gets from basketball. That tv deal alone was just over $10 billion. In Sports Illustrated in a recent article it said 80% of the revenue for the NCAA as an organization comes from March Madness. No matter who is playing that tournament has always provided viewership. When Duke played Butler it had a tv rating of 34% higher than UNC vs MSU the year before.

 

So while I get the NCAA does make a lot of money, I would argue their actual revenue (March Madness) they would prefer fresh teams every year. Even surprising teams. That’s good business for them. I think oversight is an issue. A complex issue that the schools don’t want in the hands of the NCAA. They are the ones reaping the benefits more so I feel on an individual level. Kansas cares Kansas is getting hammered. The NCAA really doesn’t. They are better for the product, but if they miss a tournament or two nobody in the NCAA will skip a beat.  

 

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