(2019) SF Keion Brooks Jr. to Kentucky

[Old Friend 8,389]

5 hours ago, AKHoosier said:

Keion was always going to take his visits, not sure we need to be alarmed here yet.

One kid will never make or break our team or program.  If he comes, great.  If he doesn't?   Go IU.  We'll be just fine.

[HoosierAloha 29,897]

Yeah, who needs a five star recruit. We didn’t need Romeo either.

You complexly twisted what most people are wanting in recruits. Yes, 5* recruits are great to have but they don't want a team full of OADs. Is that simple enough or do you want to twist that too?


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[Aeggie 206]

22 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Yeah, to hell with Anthony Davis, Devin Booker, or KAT! IU doesn’t need elite players like that! Who needs Cal’s .810 winning percentage or four Final Fours, six Elite Eights, and seven Sweet Sixteens!

Thank you. Plenty of the guys UK has gotten have been pretty stand up guys as collegiates and pros as far as anyone can tell and I maintain that the only reason people continually diss on Vonleh is because there wasn't a good enough team around him. Gordon was here for one year and you don't hear the same sentiments even though that year ended poorly.

As long as the kids are good kids, I'd love to have them on the team and I think the fanbase would adjust really quickly if that was a route that led to 30 win seasons. Some of the posts here could be Krzyzewski quotes from 5 or 6 years ago.

[Old Friend 8,389]

56 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Yeah, who needs a five star recruit. We didn’t need Romeo either.

This line of thinking is laughable.   We got Romeo.  We also have a top 10 class.  And a pipeline to dozens of highly rated players.  Why is this one important?  At all?  Kids want to be at Indiana or they don't.   We'll field a very competitive team for the foreseeable future whether Brooks comes to Indiana or not.   Who needs any particular recruit?   

How many 5 star recruits does Wisconsin get?   They've not been bad.  How many'd Loyola Chicago have?  Oregon or South Carolina the year before last?  Wichita State?  Butler?  Help me....   Why do we "need" Brooks?

[Old Friend 8,389]

14 minutes ago, Aeggie said:

Thank you. Plenty of the guys UK has gotten have been pretty stand up guys as collegiates and pros as far as anyone can tell and I maintain that the only reason people continually diss on Vonleh is because there wasn't a good enough team around him. Gordon was here for one year and you don't hear the same sentiments even though that year ended poorly.

As long as the kids are good kids, I'd love to have them on the team and I think the fanbase would adjust really quickly if that was a route that led to 30 win seasons. Some of the posts here could be Krzyzewski quotes from 5 or 6 years ago.

Tell me...  Where's Vonleh now?  He wasn't that great.  Calipari's teams have double digit losses 3 of the last 6 years and 9 in another year.  His way of doing things isn't what it used to be and I have no interest in rooting for laundry.   You can have Noah Vonleh and Devin Booker.    If you think the fan base (and especially the alums) would warm quickly, you have no idea where you are.   Go, Cats go.

[Aeggie 206]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Tell me...  Where's Vonleh now?  He wasn't that great.  Calipari's teams have double digit losses 3 of the last 6 years and 9 in another year.  His way of doing things isn't what it used to be and I have no interest in rooting for laundry.   You can have Noah Vonleh and Devin Booker.    If you think the fan base (and especially the alums) would warm quickly, you have no idea where you are.   Go, Cats go.

Don't pull the alumnus card like you're the only person that attended. Indiana has one of the largest alumni bases of any university, it's not a monoculture. If you think there's only one way of thinking within the fanbase you're the one that has no idea where you are but we can certainly disagree on whether freshmen talented enough to lead the conference in rebounding are good or not. Vonleh is still an NBA player which if you didn't know is a league with only 450 players. He may not be one of the best players in that league but you have to be really, really good to play in the NBA.

[HoosierSadaseci 2,258]

34 minutes ago, Aeggie said:

Thank you. Plenty of the guys UK has gotten have been pretty stand up guys as collegiates and pros as far as anyone can tell and I maintain that the only reason people continually diss on Vonleh is because there wasn't a good enough team around him. Gordon was here for one year and you don't hear the same sentiments even though that year ended poorly.

As long as the kids are good kids, I'd love to have them on the team and I think the fanbase would adjust really quickly if that was a route that led to 30 win seasons. Some of the posts here could be Krzyzewski quotes from 5 or 6 years ago.

Difference is Gordon played through the entire season, even in the midst of the turmoil that happened that season, Vonleh pretty much gave up playing the one season he was here.

[jk34 1,105]

2 hours ago, Iugradman said:

The top 10 class is because of Romeo. A pipeline only matters if it brings in signed recruits. We’ll see if IU continues to land them. Fielding a competitive team is conjecture. Archie hasn’t actually won anything yet. It is Archie’s job to make top recruits want to be at Indiana. You need to look at the program from the perspective of a recruit. They haven’t grown up in love with the university and seen much winning from the basketball program. They have many other universities with more recent basketball success pursuing them as well.

Those programs you listed all have proven systems and coaches. IU is yet again trying to find some consistency and stability.

I can guarantee you IU needed Cody Zeller. There are plenty of recruits who are must gets.

And Brooks is not one them.

[coonhounds 8,694]

Nobody is a must get. Coaching and a solid mixture of talent and chemistry wins championships and we have that and will sustain from here on out. I believe in archie i hoped for crean

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[Old Friend 8,389]

15 hours ago, Iugradman said:

The top 10 class is because of Romeo. A pipeline only matters if it brings in signed recruits. We’ll see if IU continues to land them. Fielding a competitive team is conjecture. Archie hasn’t actually won anything yet. It is Archie’s job to make top recruits want to be at Indiana. You need to look at the program from the perspective of a recruit. They haven’t grown up in love with the university and seen much winning from the basketball program. They have many other universities with more recent basketball success pursuing them as well.

Those programs you listed all have proven systems and coaches. IU is yet again trying to find some consistency and stability.

I can guarantee you IU needed Cody Zeller. There are plenty of recruits who are must gets.

Are you paying attention to what he's done since he got here??

IU needed Cody Zeller, but you HAVE to know (and be objective about it) that Indiana was in a far different position then than they are now.  Come on, man.  That's a bad example.  Romeo chose Indiana over Kansas.   A program with plenty of stability.   Phinisee had lots of offers too.  So did Hunter.  Fitzner had plenty of suitors.  Not sure why you're acting as though Indiana is some broken mess and the sky is falling?

But you're wrong about his job.  That's a part of his job.  His job is to be the custodian of one of the most visible sports entities in the country.  His job is to win. How he does that is not up to you.  It's up to him.  I gave many examples earlier of programs that went a long way and won conference championships without the benefit of 5* recruits.  But okay, I'll play (and because I've been close to this process, I feel like I have a good handle on it). 

From the perspective of a recruit :  Indiana has terrific facilities whether you believe that or not.  One of the largest on campus arenas in the country.  Their conference has its own network, and Indiana is still a bell cow in that conference.  We're on national TV all the time.  We've got several former players in the NBA; one of whom has come back to the state and is in the same league as Reggie Miller and Peyton Manning from a PR standpoint; we have dozens of engaged, loyal alumni players who will do anything for the kids and a few of those - maybe as many as any school in the country - are or have been NBA COACHES; we have a top flight business school; plenty of money; and the best technology you'll find anywhere.   Leave alone the tradition and the titles you don't think matter.  They do; but let's say they don't.   Based solely on what you know so far about Archie Miller; why is your attitude so negative?   His system is proven....just not here yet.  Why are we recruiting at a higher level than Purdue or Iowa?  Programs with coaches who have been there a long time?   Maybe tradition DOES matter.  Or maybe recruits DO see Indiana the way you want them to.

[yogisballin 2,288]

We’ll see. Brunson was more highly rated than the non-Romeo members of our current class. But he was always considered  a multi year guy. I expect all of our Frosh to evolve into the sort of players you can win big with. I love this class. 
Hey, I’m not opposed to 1 and done kids. What I am opposed to are kids who don’t give 2 s***s about the fans, history or culture of the school. Cal makes no bones about the fact that his only concern is moving kids along to the League. If Brooks is looking for that, it’s up to him and fine with me. It’s just not what I want at my school. 

90% of kids today could give 2 sh!ts about history of the b-ball program


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[HoosierX 1,448]

15 hours ago, Aeggie said:

Thank you. Plenty of the guys UK has gotten have been pretty stand up guys as collegiates and pros as far as anyone can tell and I maintain that the only reason people continually diss on Vonleh is because there wasn't a good enough team around him. Gordon was here for one year and you don't hear the same sentiments even though that year ended poorly.

As long as the kids are good kids, I'd love to have them on the team and I think the fanbase would adjust really quickly if that was a route that led to 30 win seasons. Some of the posts here could be Krzyzewski quotes from 5 or 6 years ago.

I agree with this.

Look, I think we would all rather win with 3 and 4 year players than one and done rentals...however, I think we all want to win.

As long as things are on the up and up, if we won a national championship with 4 one and done players, I don't think anyone is going to be writing Fred Glass letters.

[MikeRoberts 6,834]

I agree with this.
Look, I think we would all rather win with 3 and 4 year players than one and done rentals...however, I think we all want to win.
As long as things are on the up and up, if we won a national championship with 4 one and done players, I don't think anyone is going to be writing Fred Glass letters.

I mostly agree but don’t as far as most people wanting 3 and 4 year players. People are chomping at the bit to land 2 potential 1 and dones in TJD and Brooke’s and would jump at the chance to add Hurt or Watford or Anthony etc.

It’s cute to say I want 3 and 4 year players blah blah blah but if we had the opportunity to land Brooke’s, TJD, Hurt and Anthony and that was our 2019 recruiting class... there would be nothing but excitement for the program and applause for how awesome our staff did.


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[mookied39 347]

1 hour ago, yogisballin said:

90% of kids today could give 2 sh!ts about history of the b-ball program


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And 95% of statistics are made up ON THE SPOT!

[HoosierX 1,448]

4 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I mostly agree but don’t as far as most people wanting 3 and 4 year players. People are chomping at the bit to land 2 potential 1 and dones in TJD and Brooke’s and would jump at the chance to add Hurt or Watford or Anthony etc.

It’s cute to say I want 3 and 4 year players blah blah blah but if we had the opportunity to land Brooke’s, TJD, Hurt and Anthony and that was our 2019 recruiting class... there would be nothing but excitement for the program and applause for how awesome our staff did.


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They key word was "winning" with 3 and 4 year players.   All else being equal, I think people would rather win with players who stick around.

But all things are not equal, and I agree with everything in your post.

[Stuhoo 75,769]

I have, quite literally, not seen one single poster state that they are against one and dones as an absolute. The reality is much more complex. To summarize (for me):

I want players that have a connection to the university. Eric Gordon, an obvious one and done. From Indy, comes back to Btown. Still visibly pushes for his school. Fantastic one and done. Romeo? Of course. A two year Cody Zeller? An all-time Hoosier great with an IU business school degree, and would have been beloved even if he'd left after one year. Noah Vonleh? Not so much.

In my opinion, a team full of one and dones will be very unlikely to meet the standard of student athletes with real connections to the university. And THAT's the team makeup that I'm hoping for. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

40 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I mostly agree but don’t as far as most people wanting 3 and 4 year players. People are chomping at the bit to land 2 potential 1 and dones in TJD and Brooke’s and would jump at the chance to add Hurt or Watford or Anthony etc.

It’s cute to say I want 3 and 4 year players blah blah blah but if we had the opportunity to land Brooke’s, TJD, Hurt and Anthony and that was our 2019 recruiting class... there would be nothing but excitement for the program and applause for how awesome our staff did.


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Has anyone said we don't want those kids?

[HoosierX 1,448]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

I have, quite literally, not seen one single poster state that they are against one and dones as an absolute. The reality is much more complex. To summarize (for me)?

I want players that have a connection to the university. Eric Gordon, an obvious one and done. From Indy, comes back to Btown. Still visibly pushes for his school. Fantastic one and done. Romeo? Of course. A two year Cody Zeller? An all-time Hoosier great with an IU business school degree, and would have been beloved even if he'd left after one year. Noah Vonleh? Not so much.

In my opinion, a team full of one and dones will be very unlikely to meet the standard of student athletes with real connections to the university. And THAT's the team makeup that I'm hoping for. 

I understand this sentiment and again would agree it's ideal, but in the end I think people are overstating its importance, even to themselves. (obviously a very subjective statement)

As Yogi Berra said, "In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice they are different."  That is how I feel about this discussion.  In the end (in practice) if we are winning big with an outsized portion of 5 star players, I think these concerns become secondary very quickly.

In my mind, there's really only two questions that should ultimately matter:

1. Is this recruit an upgrade over what we currently have on the roster?
2. Will this recruit represent the university well? 

There is a secondary question as to whether playing time for a one and done stunts the development of a 3-4 year player, however, I think you could also argue that going against better talent in practice every day makes that player better.

[iuswingman 1,940]

are we not in the lead for brooks anymore?

[mamasa 14,835]

16 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

are we not in the lead for brooks anymore?

Per CB, we're at 50%, MSU 38%.  People getting the pre-announcement jitters based on visits.  I haven't heard anything one way or the other, to be honest.