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Sam_Boger

PITT Transfer Josh Newkirk is headed to IU!

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There are plenty of kids that have more talent and are good character kids. You can't win much without talent. So many of them have played at IU it's difficult to remember all of them. I'll take a May, Buckner, Wittman, Thomas, Bailey, Alford,
(Not the IA Alford), Cheaney, Reyn, Graham's, Henderson's, Zellers, D. J. White, A. J. Guyton, Jared Jeffries, Eric Anderson, Fife type of players anytime and add your role players to the team. There will be major losses to this team after this year. It would not even surprise me if Bryant also leaves.

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Rrrreeealllly unfair and premature to lump Gelon and Newkirk with Priller and April.   Not close to legitimate right now.

 

First of all, April had zero basketball IQ.  No clue where he was on the floor, very weak, and had no ability to contribute anything on a Big Ten floor.  That's not true with Grant and Newkirk.   Priller is a clumsy, slow 6'9" who's being forced to play out of position because of his skill set, and he's not got many basketball skills at the low D1 level, let alone the Big Ten.    Both Grant (shooting, spacing, and using screens) and Newkirk (ball handling and experience) bring far more to the table than Priller or April.   Let's say Grant's Matt Roth and Newkirk's Remy Abell.   I'd say that's at least close.   I'm not saying they're all we need in order to win championships, but as was beaten to death in the first recruiting thread about Grant, making comparisons to April or Priller is.....unfair and I don't think accurate in any way.

Well, I'm just saying we've got good at making excuses for Creans lack of recruiting. Of course Newkirk is more of a proven commodity. He will play. These limited scholarships need to be valued as gold. Every time you sign a kid who you know will be a bench warmer there is a HUGE opportunity cost vs signing a kid you know can play. Not gonna get into Gelon here. Newkirk can play but he isn't close to Yogi and that is costly. That scholly now isn't bringing near the value it did over the last 2-3 years. You won't compete for championships recruiting like that.

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We signed Gelon after one month and Newkirk after about 4 days of being involved. Tells me one of two things:

 

1. We have no recruiting plan. We play by the seat of our pants. SQUIRREL! We get distracted easily and lack a focus. 

 

 

2. We have a defined plan but are failing at it.We think we will miss on some of our higher ranked prospects. Back to taking what we can get just to fill the roster.

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  At this point we would be better off signing just 2 or 3 more players for 16.

I'm worried that we go into 17 with no open scholarships with this states best class in years.

We all know that wont happen so the hand wringing will most likely start immediately after this season.

 It's impossible to understand the thought process ,or lack there of that goes into Crean's recruiting approach but this is what we have so I will support both these kids.

Hopefully we get Davis and another quality guard in this class.

 

Go Hoosiers

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  At this point we would be better off signing just 2 or 3 more players for 16.

I'm worried that we go into 17 with no open scholarships with this states best class in years.

We all know that wont happen so the hand wringing will most likely start immediately after this season.

 It's impossible to understand the thought process ,or lack there of that goes into Crean's recruiting approach but this is what we have so I will support both these kids.

Hopefully we get Davis and another quality guard in this class.

 

Go Hoosiers

 

If we sign three more for '16, we would have at least two open spots for '17 (Colinn and JBJ). If Thomas Bryant is a two and done, that's three open. Add one more transfer under the "somebody's not getting enough playing time" theory, and we'd have four open.

 

Moral of the story?

 

If Scruggs, Wilkes, Michael Porter and Malik all want to come to IU, there will be PLENTY of room.

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In the meantime, the 16-17 roster seems to be spotty.

 

Only if you crystal ball gaze and assume the worst.  My (I think) realistic expectations for the '16/'17 rotation?

 

Center: Bryant, backed up by DeRon Davis and Emmitt Holt, Maker as a pipe dream.

PF:  Holt, DeRon Davis, Juwan Morgan, Leaf/Bridges as a pipe dream.

SF: Hartman, OG, freshman 4 star (Jenkins, Stevens, Leaf/Bridges as a pipe dream)

Guards: Rojo, JBJ, Newkirk, one more four star-ish addition.

 

Assuming normal player development, that seems like an excellent talent/experience level mix. Certainly as good as our B1G competition's talent level and experience. Absolutely a top 25 roster at a minimum!

 

If the coaching is good enough, we are fine and then some. If the coaching is good enough.

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Only if you crystal ball gaze and assume the worst. My (I think) realistic expectations for the '16/'17 rotation?

Center: Bryant, backed up by DeRon Davis and Emmitt Holt, Maker as a pipe dream.
PF: Holt, DeRon Davis, Juwan Morgan, Leaf/Bridges as a pipe dream.
SF: Hartman, OG, freshman 4 star (Jenkins, Stevens, Leaf/Bridges as a pipe dream)
Guards: Rojo, JBJ, Newkirk, one more four star-ish addition.

Assuming normal player development, that seems like an excellent talent/experience level mix. Certainly as good as our B1G competition's talent level and experience. Absolutely a top 25 roster at a minimum!

If the coaching is good enough, we are fine and then some. If the coaching is good enough.



Many of the recruits you mention we are a long shot in getting. Some have a long list of possibilities. Others like Leaf, almost no chance.

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you are stuck in something... Just not sure what it is. Where are you getting this 30-50 range happiness example and talk of after 7 seasons finally going after kids who want to be here bologna?

We aren't even sniffing the 30-50 range right now and aren't getting kids that want to be here either if we are being truly honest with ourselves. Neither of of 16' recruits are top 30-50 and one of them isn't even probably top 300-500 and neither did or would choose IU first. One was recruited by IU and chose Pitt over IU and the other is a Duke fan that had no other high D-1 offers.

Spin spin spin. This class needs some top talent and less excuses or we are going to end up putrid again in 16/17' period


I'm sorry, I just care more for players who carry themselves with respect than I do a high ranked recruit who doesn't. My examples were exaggerated & off cue.

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Well, I'm just saying we've got good at making excuses for Creans lack of recruiting. Of course Newkirk is more of a proven commodity. He will play. These limited scholarships need to be valued as gold. Every time you sign a kid who you know will be a bench warmer there is a HUGE opportunity cost vs signing a kid you know can play. Not gonna get into Gelon here. Newkirk can play but he isn't close to Yogi and that is costly. That scholly now isn't bringing near the value it did over the last 2-3 years. You won't compete for championships recruiting like that.

1)   I don't think we "know" anything, yet.   We don't know Grant will be a bench-warmer, and we don't "know" whether Newkirk will be a good fit or not.

 

2)  There is no doubt we need better talent to compete on a national level; but I don't see the point in worrying about this recruiting class when we still have 4 (likely) spots left to fill.  Like I said before, recruiting a bench full of kids who need the ball and need to score in order to either be happy or make a difference is not a formula for success.  You need role players and fundamentally sound players, too....and I honestly see Grant as a sign Crean may finally understand what wins in college basketball.   He isn't going to be a "star," but he also won't dominate the ball, take bad shots, or turn it over all the time trying to "do his thing."    (See : Verdell Jones, Stanford Robinson).   That's not a bad thing.  It can't stop with Grant, but I don't see starting with him as a negative at all.

 

3)  I've been hard on Crean for 7 years about the way he recruits.  No plan, just a shotgun approach and an ability to get kids to say yes.  No ability to build a team or a roster that can compete consistently.  I absolutely agree with that sentiment, and I still don't care for him as a coach.   But....

 

What we have in these two are :  an experienced ball handler at the high D1 level, and a kid who was very highly rated out of high school.   Which tells me there are no guarantees no matter WHO we recruit.    This kid WAS an elite recruit, and now...he's not good enough for many.   There are no sure things.....and people are very impatient and even more fickle.   We also have a great high school shooter.   That skill translates.   Assuming he can get open and assuming he has enough athletic ability to run the floor, he'll be helpful because he can put the ball in the basket.   Think about IU two years ago.  Our shooting was awful, and we couldn't score.  Grant is a shooter, and no team can have enough of those.  He's also a smart, fundamentally sound player who understands where he is.   That's helpful.  And he'll be fine.   Now....we need Ogunoby and Morgan to play well; we need Bryant to stay and play well; it would help if Blackmon stayed; Johnson needs to become a leader and a better ball handler; Hartman and Holt both have to develop as players and as leaders; and we do need some high-level talent added to the roster.   

 

That said, I think both of these kids add some level of "help" to our team and to our program.   Newkirk especially because he has experience at the D1 level, and he's got decent size.  I don't expect him to dominate, but I do expect him to be a stabilizer and allow Indiana to transition from Ferrell to whatever we'll become pretty smoothly.  It just disappoints me to see so many people upset about two kids who are far better and bring far more than most seem to want to believe.

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For a fan base who is supposed, and seems to hate UK. You guys sure want to be them. If it isn't a McDAA- all I ever see is negative comments. Forget the instant impact, can we think 2-3 years down the road? These are solid guys, high academics, supposed to be OUTSTANDING character, & established work ethic.
Do not forget that our beloved 2012 team was made up of Non McDAA's Hulls (SR) Vic (Jr) Cwat (Sr) Remy (Soph) sheehey (Jr) and a few contributors I'm sure I'm forgetting.
This is an exciting guy, with a lot of potential on the court.. And more off the court.

There is a huge difference between wanting to be Kentucky and being disappointed with getting guys look like they'd be average starters in the B1G in their last years here.

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Agree, but there's a good chance we're losing Yogi, Troy and JBJ this offseason, and an outside chance Bryant could bolt too. We'll most likely have Holt, OG, Hartman, Morgan and RoJo back, while adding GG and Newkirk. We've got the role players, with the remaining scholarships we need to backfill the studs.

And you can win with a few Average guys. Not everyone is a stud, role players are needed.

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My 2016-17 IU rotation (If 247 is right, and if nothing else unforeseen happens like tranfers and injuries)
G Josh Newkirk 6-1
G Curtis Jones 6-3
G Robert Johnson 6-3
F Collin Hartman 6-7
F Thomas Bryant 6-10
Sixth F Emmitt Holt 6-7

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