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FKfootball

I'm worried about in-state recruiting.

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not really. One of my biggest concerns over recruiting kids from so far away is that the coaches don't really know them that well, and vice versa. Recruiting a kid from 3 hours away, one gets the opportunity to see them more, have them on aloud more, talk to people that know them etc.

We offered and accepted Hoetzels lOI knowing very little about him and vice versa. Wonder why that didn't work


Hollowell, Patterson, etherington, and Davis were all an hour away. That didn't go so well....

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Hollowell, Patterson, etherington, and Davis were all an hour away. That didn't go so well....

that's true. Every local kid is not a good fit. One would think Crean could lessen the likelihood of a miss by spending years recruiting the kid that includes spending a lot of time with him and his inner circle to get a sense of who they are beyond the court. Everyone has misses, both locally and nationally but the ones that are national that were not evaluated very long/well like Hoetzell are a complete crapshoot.

I don't want Crean rolling the dice so much

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1. Crean didn't go out of his way to recruit Sheehey. He fell into the picture because of the Melo recruitment. Will may not have been able to carry the team his senior year but he still was a solid 4 year guy and let's not forget that. It's hard for anyone to lead the team when they lose 4 starters from the previous year.

2. Few likes to give Crean any account for developing Olaidipo but it's funny how Victor himself praises Crean. I might not have any inside information but I think I could take a highly educated guess that Coach had something to do with his development.

3. Davis was not guilty of poor timing. He was drinking the night of the accident and made a stupid decision that almost killed him. Then he decides to have a "small baggie" of marijuana on him while he smokes up in the dorms. That is not poor timing. That is idiotic. If Crean hadn't gave him the boot then this whole board would be in uproar.

There are many sides to the truth. It can be twisted whichever way to support ones beliefs. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong.

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1. Crean didn't go out of his way to recruit Sheehey. He fell into the picture because of the Melo recruitment. Will may not have been able to carry the team his senior year but he still was a solid 4 year guy and let's not forget that. It's hard for anyone to lead the team when they lose 4 starters from the previous year.

2. Few likes to give Crean any account for developing Olaidipo but it's funny how Victor himself praises Crean. I might not have any inside information but I think I could take a highly educated guess that Coach had something to do with his development.

3. Davis was not guilty of poor timing. He was drinking the night of the accident and made a stupid decision that almost killed him. Then he decides to have a "small baggie" of marijuana on him while he smokes up in the dorms. That is not poor timing. That is idiotic. If Crean hadn't gave him the boot then this whole board would be in uproar.

There are many sides to the truth. It can be twisted whichever way to support ones beliefs. Doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong.

Thank you for this highly logical post.

Old Friend, I understand your frustration and your points, and to Stuhoo and those on the other side of the fence I understand your stance as well. At the end of the day, Indiana produces a lot of basketball talent and we are fortunate to have such a privileged access to the recruits, but there are better recruits with equal or greater basketball IQ all around the country. College basketball is a national event, slowly moving to an international event, and recruiting needs to match the growth of the game's scope. To focus too many resources on one area of the recruiting landscape is inefficient.

I agree though, recruiting individuals like April and Priller is not something we should do. Scouting of these players was not as diligent as it could have been, and there were equally talented resources available in our backyard. Other than those recruits, I don't have any issues with the talent Crean has acquired in his time here. My only issue is with his ability to capitalize on said talent.

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not really. One of my biggest concerns over recruiting kids from so far away is that the coaches don't really know them that well, and vice versa. Recruiting a kid from 3 hours away, one gets the opportunity to see them more, have them on aloud more, talk to people that know them etc.

We offered and accepted Hoetzels lOI knowing very little about him and vice versa. Wonder why that didn't work

Hollowell was a local kid. By your theory we should have known how lazy he was and how much he didn't care about basketball. The truth is that every KID should looked at by a case by case basis. No matter where there from.

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Why is the US not a powerhouse in soccer?  Is it because the players on the World Cup teams don't care to win as much as other countries?  Is it because those players don't have the soccer iq of the players in other countries?

 

I believe it's because our talent pool is diluted by other available (and more popular) sports that other countries don't have.

 

What if our World Cup team had such talented athletes as Lebron James, Chris Paul, Richard Sherman, Mike Trout, Odell Beckham?  What if they chose to play soccer instead of their respective sports?

 

In America, our athletes play the sports that are popular in their area.  In Indiana, it's basketball.  In Florida, it's football.  In Virginia, it's Lacrosse.  In Maine, it's hockey.

 

That doesn't mean that the basketball players in Indiana are better than the basketball players in Montana where rodeo is king.  It just means that the talent pool in Indiana is deeper.  An Indiana player doesn't have more desire to win than an Arizona player.  That's a lazy stereotype.  If a player has a passion to win, it doesn't matter where he's from.  A competitor is a competitor.  A 4 star player from Indiana is the same as a 4 star player from Oregon.  There's just more to choose from in certain areas of the country.

 

Naming players from other parts of the country as some sort of proof that Indiana players are better is specious reasoning at best.  Maybe it's just pushing an agenda.  Maybe it's a lack of understanding.  Regardless, I certainly disagree that Indiana players somehow have more of a desire to win than competitive players in other areas.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I've seen games between NY area teams and Indiana teams, and there was a very noticeable difference; the NY teams may have had the flash, but the IN teams had the finer points of the game down.  That doesn't mean only IN kids understand the fine point of the game (and even some IN kids don't), but when a game as big as basketball is in this state there's going to be an impact on their understanding of it.

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Why is the US not a powerhouse in soccer? Is it because the players on the World Cup teams don't care to win as much as other countries? Is it because those players don't have the soccer iq of the players in other countries?

I believe it's because our talent pool is diluted by other available (and more popular) sports that other countries don't have.

What if our World Cup team had such talented athletes as Lebron James, Chris Paul, Richard Sherman, Mike Trout, Odell Beckham? What if they chose to play soccer instead of their respective sports?

In America, our athletes play the sports that are popular in their area. In Indiana, it's basketball. In Florida, it's football. In Virginia, it's Lacrosse. In Maine, it's hockey.

That doesn't mean that the basketball players in Indiana are better than the basketball players in Montana where rodeo is king. It just means that the talent pool in Indiana is deeper. An Indiana player doesn't have more desire to win than an Arizona player. That's a lazy stereotype. If a player has a passion to win, it doesn't matter where he's from. A competitor is a competitor. A 4 star player from Indiana is the same as a 4 star player from Oregon. There's just more to choose from in certain areas of the country.

Naming players from other parts of the country as some sort of proof that Indiana players are better is specious reasoning at best. Maybe it's just pushing an agenda. Maybe it's a lack of understanding. Regardless, I certainly disagree that Indiana players somehow have more of a desire to win than competitive players in other areas.

you twisted the argument around. It's not that Indiana kids "have more of a desire to win" it's that they are typically very well trained in the fundamentals of the game, like individual and team defensive principles.

And your soccer analogy is wrong on so many levels. Yes, it could help USA soccer if all of our athletes focused on soccer but that is only a small part of it. There are more kids playing soccer in America than countries like Italy and Germany. You mention soccer IQ, yes, the players in Italy and Germany in general have a higher soccer IQ than American players. It's why we import in color commentators for our games, import coaches in to train our teams, it's why our players go abroad to train. The game is coached and played at a higher level there, not because they have better athletes but because they are taught the right fundamentals from the time they were able to walk.

I know because I trained in holland and Germany; the focus on fundamentals and their lack of tolerance for mistakes in those areas is nothing like the US

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you twisted the argument around. It's not that Indiana kids "have more of a desire to win" it's that they are typically very well trained in the fundamentals of the game, like individual and team defensive principles.


If this is true than why was Blackmon arguably the teams worst defender last year? Why was an east coast kid in Johnson better? I'd bet money that Bryant will be one of our best defenders this year. Defense is more about hustle and effort than having knowledge about defensive principles.

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you twisted the argument around. It's not that Indiana kids "have more of a desire to win" it's that they are typically very well trained in the fundamentals of the game, like individual and team defensive principles.

And your soccer analogy is wrong on so many levels. Yes, it could help USA soccer if all of our athletes focused on soccer but that is only a small part of it. There are more kids playing soccer in America than countries like Italy and Germany. You mention soccer IQ, yes, the players in Italy and Germany in general have a higher soccer IQ than American players. It's why we import in color commentators for our games, import coaches in to train our teams, it's why our players go abroad to train. The game is coached and played at a higher level there, not because they have better athletes but because they are taught the right fundamentals from the time they were able to walk.

I know because I trained in holland and Germany; the focus on fundamentals and their lack of tolerance for mistakes in those areas is nothing like the US

Some women on the USWNT played overseas, i.e. Christen Press played for Sweden once, and said they became better players by going over there because of this.

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you twisted the argument around. It's not that Indiana kids "have more of a desire to win" it's that they are typically very well trained in the fundamentals of the game, like individual and team defensive principles.

 

One of the others said they did, not you.

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If this is true than why was Blackmon arguably the teams worst defender last year? Why was an east coast kid in Johnson better? I'd bet money that Bryant will be one of our best defenders this year. Defense is more about hustle and effort than having knowledge about defensive principles.

really? So dirk nowitzky is better than Cody Zeller so Germans are better than Americans at basketball.

We are talking broad generalities here. There is in general a great group of top talent that are fundamentally sound that come out of Indiana each year and therefore should be our priority. It is an efficient use of time and money to focus on Indiana kids because in general they have a sound understanding of the game. Period

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really? So dirk nowitzky is better than Cody Zeller so Germans are better than Americans at basketball.

We are talking broad generalities here. There is in general a great group of top talent that are fundamentally sound that come out of Indiana each year and therefore should be our priority. It is an efficient use of time and money to focus on Indiana kids because in general they have a sound understanding of the game. Period

IMO we could twist that and say as 19 yr olds Zeller was better. That is what is relevant for this convo if I were playing devils advocate. Dirk had far more upside but when Zeller played for IU he was better.

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IMO we could twist that and say as 19 yr olds Zeller was better. That is what is relevant for this convo if I were playing devils advocate. Dirk had far more upside but when Zeller played for IU he was better.

This I agree with having seen him play against Dirk.

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really? So dirk nowitzky is better than Cody Zeller so Germans are better than Americans at basketball.

We are talking broad generalities here. There is in general a great group of top talent that are fundamentally sound that come out of Indiana each year and therefore should be our priority. It is an efficient use of time and money to focus on Indiana kids because in general they have a sound understanding of the game. Period

Your comments re: broad generalities and where our priorities should be are spot on and exactly what I've been trying to say.   How it became about finite, specific details and absolutes is beyond me.   

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Soooo.... Rawle Alkins or Eron Gordon? If this is a black and white, one or the other type of a convo. There is your legitimate Indiana vs out of state comparison. There is plan A and plan B. Who you got?

Not really a far comparison. Eron isn't anywhere close to Rawle. May have to go to 2017 to get a fair comparison to Rawle in state.

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Soooo.... Rawle Alkins or Eron Gordon? If this is a black and white, one or the other type of a convo. There is your legitimate Indiana vs out of state comparison. There is plan A and plan B. Who you got?


Rawle. And it shouldn't even be a conversation. But I see your point. :)

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Has anyone considered that Crean HAS prioritized Indiana, but maybe the coaches of players he wants are steering their kids other places? I know for a fact there are coaches in the area where I live who don't like the way he does things. As much as we like to project Crean as some sort of mad scientist who's always trying to outthink the room, I don't think he would just turn his back on the biggest hotbed of talent in the country to try and prove himself. 

 

 

I think he goes to California and Texas to recruit the likes of Priller and April not because he thinks the players out there are better, but because the local pipelines have told him not to waste his time around here. And before someone says "well why do coaches in Texas feel comfortable sending players to him," coaches in Texas probably aren't IU fans who follow the program and watch his teams play all the time. 

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