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FKfootball

I'm worried about in-state recruiting.

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It's not that I understand and others don't.   Just you.  

 

You think there's magic fairy dust on local kids that isn't found elsewhere.  I think that's a cute theory but very short sighted.

 

...and you haven't shown a shred of evidence.  For every Stan Robinson example you think proves your theory, I can give you a Derrick Elston.  

 

The reason Bob Knight's teams were more successful isn't because of where his kids were from.  That's just silly.

Okay....let's try this again.   

 

1)  We have to get the right kind of player, no matter where they're from.   I have never said anything different than that.

 

2)  I have said nothing about fairy dust or any special quality other than a particular style of basketball taught and played in the midwest.  You don't have to tell me what I think unless you're trying to create an argument for me so you can disagree with it.   Something about short sighted?

 

3)  Your ignoring evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist or I haven't given it to you.  Call Tom Izzo and ask him why his primary focus is on Indiana and Michigan.  I've heard him talk about it several times, a few in person.  I know what his answer will be.

 

4)  If you truly believe after reading (oh yeah...you didn't.  Lazy) what I've written that my point is solely about where a kid "is from," I have nothing else for you.  I've clearly defined what I mean, and it has nothing to do with geography except the understanding of the Big Ten and growing up playing a style that will succeed in the conference.   The teams that win the Big Ten every year recruit their local areas and generally get kids who are smart, physical, and can shoot.   Maybe Bryant is that way.  Hoo rah.  Crean has not generally recruited that kind of player, and I don't think he needs to go to Maryland to get kids if they're not top talent.  The reason Knight's teams were successful was he was a great coach but also recruited the kind of players he knew could succeed in his system and knew what they were getting into both with him and with the traditions and expectations of the school.   And....those kids by and large came from a 3-4 hour drive from Bloomington.   There was a reason.  Max Hoetzel had no idea of the traditions and expectations when he got here.   Vonleh couldn't have cared less.  Priller can be found in almost every conference between Madison, IN and Peoria, IL.  Sheehey has a twin playing at Fishers right now (or maybe he just graduated...don't know).   

 

Look at the last 6 final fours and the teams in them (posted previously).   Show me a school outside Duke and UK which has avoided a local focus en lieu of a shotgun approach who has won consistently in the last 30 years.   You can't.   It doesn't exist.    Tom Crean or any coach at Indiana needs to prioritize kids from the general area if they want to succeed in the long term and consistently.  That's what I believe and I think both recent and past history paint a pretty clear picture that I'm right.   Disagree, but what is your basis other than your own opinion?

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I know this topic has been beaten to death...doesn't make the problem any less real.  If you think Crean can succeed at a high level at Indiana without significant in-state success, you're kidding yourself.  There is no evidence to support that, and as long as Purdue DOES have in-state success, you'll always have your #1 rival caring more than our kids do, and that matters.  The reason we're not having in-state success is simply that it's not a high priority for Crean, and he views in-area kids like any others.  I think that's a huge mistake.  

 

 

Okay....let's try this again.   

 

1)  We have to get the right kind of player, no matter where they're from.   I have never said anything different than that.

 

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put words in YOUR mouth? Lol. You rattle on more than anyone ever. Damn, take a friggin timeout!! You are getting very old and El Kabong is getting ready to strike! Kapeesh?

It's "capiche'," and yeah.  I get it.  You don't want your little world interrupted with opinions you don't agree with.   You don't want to read any more than a soundbite.   And your opinions of me are set in stone.   Got it.

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How dare you criticize Naples Hoosier's spelling of Italian slang words! (His spelling is much better when he has a couple Johnnie Walkers in his belly).
______________________________________________________________________________________

All snarkiness (?) aside, you could have a lot of fun on this board.

I like strong opinions.
I don't have to agree with them to want to see them.
You have experience and real interest with in-state hoops.

Why can't you put the condescension and rambling aside (just a little) and be an asset to this board? I'd be a huge fan of the prospect of that happening.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

Let me further say that you often have valid points but they are often lost in the delivery. Tweak that a bit and your messages would be better received overall. Constructive criticism you can build on!

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Is there a list of players that are/aren't fair game? Is there a list of players that do/don't fit the system? Is there a list of in-state players that didn't understand the tradition and what it means to play for IU?

You blame Sheehey for not carrying the team as a senior leader. Like it or not, Yogi was also a leader on that team. He then followed that up with a 7th place. Is he a bad fit? Does he understand the tradition?

Did Oladipo understand the tradition or did he just have the personality to get better?

Did Davis understand the tradition? He just said F it, I like my pot?

Can these examples be used or if it doesn't back your viewpoint then they can't be used?

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POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

Let me further say that you often have valid points but they are often lost in the delivery. Tweak that a bit and your messages would be better received overall. Constructive criticism you can build on!

 

 

Hmmm. Who would have ever thought that picking on Nips and supporting Colts would be so well received.

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Okay, boys.   I'm not here to fight, make personal attacks, or anything of the sort.  But be fair.  At the very least, be fair.

 

I said consistently that we need the right kids no matter where they're from.  Hollowell is far from "Indiana through and through."    You know what Indiana players look like, and he was anything but.   This is the lazy thing.   He is "from" Indiana, but doesn't display and never displayed the characteristics of a successful college player because he was a lazy, selfish high school player and I said so (verbatim) when we recruited him.   I never used Hanner as an example because he never had any baskeball IQ and I said he'd be a bust when we recruited him because he doesn't have the instinct, footwork, or experience needed to succeed in the Big Ten.   And I got crushed for it because many chirped about his athletic ability.   

 

If I can't use Holt as an example, neither can you.  It's a two way street, or it's off limits.  You can't cherry pick.  You use Holt as an example of why Indiana should continue to focus nationally, and I'll tell you Holt's best finish is 7th place.  He's either on the table or he's not.    

 

April was not a good fit....no matter where he was from and I have no idea why we recruited him.  Same with Priller.

 

You've mentioned basketball IQ a few times.   Where do you think Indiana has the best chance of finding kids with high basketball IQ?

 

And Kepner, nobody has ever said we should only recruit the local area.   Again, don't put words in my mouth.   There is a huge difference between a recruiting focus/priority and a limiting factor like "only."   Like I said, be fair and avoid the personal crap.  That's all I'm asking.

I never said anything personal and I never mentioned you by name or specifically... What I said was "a bunch of people argue that we should only recruit payers from the Midwest".  So technically I didn't put words in your mouth, you put words in my mouth hahah
​That can't be argued because there are people who honestly believe that. None of my post was a personal attack or anything. Again I was saying anything about you, but about the logic of location and whatnot. Didnt mention you or anything so please don't do the same with me

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So a bunch of people argue that we should only recruit payers from the Midwest. April was a player from the Midwest, just happened to go play prep basketball for a year in Arizona and all of a sudden he isn't from the midwest. This is why this whole idea of "only recruit one area" is flawed.

not really. One of my biggest concerns over recruiting kids from so far away is that the coaches don't really know them that well, and vice versa. Recruiting a kid from 3 hours away, one gets the opportunity to see them more, have them on aloud more, talk to people that know them etc.

We offered and accepted Hoetzels lOI knowing very little about him and vice versa. Wonder why that didn't work

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How dare you criticize Naples Hoosier's spelling of Italian slang words! (His spelling is much better when he has a couple Johnnie Walkers in his belly).

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

All snarkiness (?) aside, you could have a lot of fun on this board.

 

I like strong opinions.

I don't have to agree with them to want to see them.

You have experience and real interest with in-state hoops.

 

Why can't you put the condescension and rambling aside (just a little) and be an asset to this board? I'd be a huge fan of the prospect of that happening.

I will show you and anyone else as much respect as you show me and treat everyone exactly as I'm treated.   It's hardly as if I'm the only guilty party in the "snarkiness" or condescension areas.    I am having plenty of fun. It is interesting to me though that a few guys just can't seem to get pre-conceived opinions out of their head and treat me like I'm poison or something.    This thread has more views today than any other in the last 2 months.   Assets come in many forms.  Not all of them popular all the time.

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Is there a list of players that are/aren't fair game? Is there a list of players that do/don't fit the system? Is there a list of in-state players that didn't understand the tradition and what it means to play for IU?

You blame Sheehey for not carrying the team as a senior leader. Like it or not, Yogi was also a leader on that team. He then followed that up with a 7th place. Is he a bad fit? Does he understand the tradition?

Did Oladipo understand the tradition or did he just have the personality to get better?

Did Davis understand the tradition? He just said F it, I like my pot?

Can these examples be used or if it doesn't back your viewpoint then they can't be used?

A list?  I don't know what Crean has, but he'd better have a list of kids he wants and he'd better make sure he prioritizes the kids who can succeed in the Big Ten and in his system (then again, I'm not convinced Crean can sustain success in the Big Ten no matter who he recruits).    Whatever he's been doing hasn't worked, and even as we'll be very good this season, I'm interested in long term and consistent success.   Is there something you can point to that suggests a shotgun approach to recruiting works well?  

 

Yogi is what he is.  We need more kids like him who play with as much heart and passion as he does.  He makes other people better and he's a special talent in the open court.  He's also 5'10."  He's also a career 42% shooter.   He's also a poor defender.  He has limitations, but yeah....I'd take a team of kids who play as hard as he does.   He was a sophomore on that team.  Hard to say a 19 year old kid is a leader on a team with Sheehey and Gordon, but if you want to lump him in there, he's "led" Indiana to 8th and 7th place finishes.   You need more than effort and heart, and you need help.

 

I did not "blame" anyone.   It amazes me how you keep creating things on your own.  I simply said a couple of times that Sheehey was a very good role player on a great team, and not a special talent we needed to go get in Florida.   There's no blame.  He was what he was.  When it was his turn to lead the team as a senior without Zeller, Watford, Hulls, and Oladipo, Indiana went 17-15 and missed the post season.   He couldn't put up great numbers, couldn't score consistently, especially in the half court, and his team struggled.  I'm not blaming him....or Yogi.  But that's what happened, even with a lottery pick, McD's all American big man.   I liked Sheehey and I'm glad he was at Indiana.  But we didn't need to go to Florida to find a player who gave us what he did.

 

Oladipo.   Do you want the honest answer to that question?  Oladipo came to Indiana a raw athlete.  The summer after his freshman season, he played with that U19 Team USA or whatever it was, met a coach with that team, and worked with him independently for two seasons to become the player he did.   Oladipo probably worked harder on his own than any kid we've had at Indiana in the last decade and a half.   Yes.  His personality was unique that way, and he was clearly the right kid at the right time.

 

Davis was guilty of poor timing and not much more.  His episode on Halloween was his jumping in front of a car to scare his friends....but Holt wasn't looking and messing with a couple of girls while pulling away.   Then, he was caught with basically half a joint in his room.  Any other time, he runs stairs, sits for a game or two, and it's all good.  But he got in trouble after many others had, and he was made an example of.  Again....that's what happened.  I think he took what he had for granted, but I also think he almost died and probably changed priorities.

 

You can use whatever examples you want, but you can't ignore the truth and you can't create your own reality so it fits whatever you're trying to say.

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