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(2016) C Joey Brunk to Butler

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History goes back a lot further than a decade. History is a part of how good the program is.

That thinking is the biggest thing holding Indiana back. Holding on so tightly to 1987 and not seeing how far you've fallen.

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Sounds like they have a better program then. And I never said Brunk wasn't good enough for IU. I wanted him. But he picked a better program. Great choice.

You were talking about Gordon in the post I quoted.  If Eron is good enough for a better program (in your words), then he's good enough for IU.

 

That thinking is the biggest thing holding Indiana back. Holding on so tightly to 1987 and not seeing how far you've fallen.

The only way we will get back to that level is to have those expectations.  Lower the bar once and you will always find a reason to lower it again.  Holding ourselves to the standards of one of the best programs in history isn't a problem, it's what we should be doing.

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You were talking about Gordon in the post I quoted. If Eron is good enough for a better program (in your words), then he's good enough for IU.

The only way we will get back to that level is to have those expectations. Lower the bar once and you will always find a reason to lower it again. Holding ourselves to the standards of one of the best programs in history isn't a problem, it's what we should be doing.

I just don't him. We had to go through Evan which wasn't good. And no we shouldn't be holding onto 1987 so much. That was almost 30 years ago. It is 2015. Another reason Indiana basketball needs a rebranding. Kids now don't actually know about back then unless they grew up as IU fans.

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Not really upset over this one. Holtman looks to be another very good coach at Butler and is smart enough to realize he can make a living recruiting within a short distance from campus. Rather see a kid go there than MSU or UM.

 

Rather see him at Butler than at any other B1G school especially since Butler is my second favorite team -- 2 daughters and 1 son-in-law being Butler grads.  Yes, I know, I seriously failed as a father. 

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Well they do win more. Should we really compare the last decade for each?

Win more in which conference again? The Horizon League? The depleted Big East? They have had more recent success in those two championship runs, which were incredible. They are by no means a better program now or historically. Indiana has a much greater history, tradition, and even now has greater draw for premium talent. The list goes on to include more money, better facilities, and greater success in preparing kids for the NBA. I don't see how you can argue that Butler is a better program. All due respect to their recent successes, but what great successes have they had outside of 2010 and 2011? Ridiculous to even compare Butler to Indiana, honestly.

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Win more in which conference again? The have had more recent success in those two championship runs, which were incredible. They are by no means a better program now or historically. Indiana has a much greater history, tradition, and even now has greater draw for premium talent. The list goes on to include more money, better facilities, and greater success in preparing kids for the NBA. I don't see how you can argue that Butler is a better program. All due respect to their recent successes, but what great successes have they had outside of 2010 and 2011? Ridiculous to even compare Butler to Indiana, honestly.

It is all about winning. They do that more. You're facilities could include 2 nerf goals in a closet and a couple bags of potatoes for weights. Doesn't really matter if you win. We might draw more "premium" talent but we sure can't keep it. You can't count bringing in Vic and Sheehey as premium talent because they weren't coming out of HS. We've just been able to bring in a McD's AA the past 5 years. But they've still won more. It's about winning. Butler has been better. I don't care what happened 30 years ago. Kids my age and the kids coming into college don't care what happened 30 years ago. They're seeing what's happened the past 10-15 years. Where had IU been? Where have they been compared to Butler?

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It is all about winning. They do that more. You're facilities could include 2 nerf goals in a closet and a couple bags of potatoes for weights. Doesn't really matter if you win. We might draw more "premium" talent but we sure can't keep it. You can't count bringing in Vic and Sheehey as premium talent because they weren't coming out of HS. We've just been able to bring in a McD's AA the past 5 years. But they've still won more. It's about winning. Butler has been better. I don't care what happened 30 years ago. Kids my age and the kids coming into college don't care what happened 30 years ago. They're seeing what's happened the past 10-15 years. Where had IU been? Where have they been compared to Butler?

1. Pulling in a McDAA every year five years straight is called pulling premium talent.

2. Butler has won more than Indiana recently? Once again, other than the 2010 and 2011 run, no one is impressed by Butler beating up on a crappy Horizon League or depleted Big East and then losing in the first or second round of the tournament.

3. A program is built on history and judged on current success. Indiana is a better program, and is probably viewed as better than Butler currently as well.

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1. Pulling in a McDAA every year five years straight is called pulling premium talent.

2. Butler has won more than Indiana recently? Once again, other than the 2010 and 2011 run, no one is impressed by Butler beating up on a crappy Horizon League or depleted Big East and then losing in the first or second round of the tournament.

3. A program is built on history and judged on current success. Indiana is a better program, and is probably viewed as better than Butler currently as well.

The last 10 seasons(going back to the 05-06 season) Indiana is 186-142 with 2 trips to the Sweet 16. Butler 252-97 with a trip to the Sweet 16 and two trips to the Nat'l Title game. Butler has been more successful. And with ease. I'd say they have the better program. Even without the facilities and money that IU has.

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The last 10 seasons(going back to the 05-06 season) Indiana is 186-142 with 2 trips to the Sweet 16. Butler 252-97 with a trip to the Sweet 16 and two trips to the Nat'l Title game. Butler has been more successful. And with ease. I'd say they have the better program. Even without the facilities and money that IU has.

We went to the NCAA tourney 6 times and they went 7. To add in.. Purdue went 207-125 with two Sweet Sixteens and 7 tourney appearances. Notre Dame has went 230-109 with an Elite 8 and 7 tourney appearances.

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The last 10 seasons(going back to the 05-06 season) Indiana is 186-142 with 2 trips to the Sweet 16. Butler 252-97 with a trip to the Sweet 16 and two trips to the Nat'l Title game. Butler has been more successful. And with ease. I'd say they have the better program. Even without the facilities and money that IU has.

252-97 in the Horizon League. I'll keep repeating that. If Butler played in a comparable conference, that would mean something. Why not keep looking back in recent history? 2002 IU was in the championship game. They've gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice in the past few years. They were number one in the country and won the B1G outright. Butler is just not a better program. IU certainly has not achieved the success its fans demand, but they have not fallen behind Butler.

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252-97 in the Horizon League. I'll keep repeating that. If Butler played in a comparable conference, that would mean something. Why not keep looking back in recent history? 2002 IU was in the championship game. They gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice in the past few years. They were number one in the country and won the B1G outright. Butler is just not a better program. IU certainly has not achieved the success its fans demand, but they have not fallen behind Butler.

I don't care what conference they're in. They've won more. People notice that. Just the two tourney runs were enough. Those two alone push them pay IU until something actually happens for us. Will that be this year? Doubtful but who knows. Heck maybe we should have hired Calipari.

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The last 10 seasons(going back to the 05-06 season) Indiana is 186-142 with 2 trips to the Sweet 16. Butler 252-97 with a trip to the Sweet 16 and two trips to the Nat'l Title game. Butler has been more successful. And with ease. I'd say they have the better program. Even without the facilities and money that IU has.


You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. Butler is good but IU is a top 5-6 program nationally. Butler is a top 4 program in the state of Indiana. Butler has had a good run the last decade. Their coach who took them to their height is now gone. Butler parlayed the success into getting into the Big East but they are no longer the final Four threat they were when Stevens was the coach. good program, not elite, not great.

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I just don't him. We had to go through Evan which wasn't good. And no we shouldn't be holding onto 1987 so much. That was almost 30 years ago. It is 2015. Another reason Indiana basketball needs a rebranding. Kids now don't actually know about back then unless they grew up as IU fans.

I wasn't even a year old the last time we won a national title and even I'm saying we need to keep the expectations of one of the top programs in the country, which our history says we are.  We have the facilities, we have the recruiting grounds, we have everything we need (okay with one glaring exception, but that's for a different thread).  If we lower expectations we will never get back to that level, that's how we end up saying we exceeded expectations by finishing 7th instead of the predicted 9th.

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You can say it all you want, but it doesn't make it true. Butler is good but IU is a top 5-6 program nationally. Butler is a top 4 program in the state of Indiana. Butler has had a good run the last decade. Their coach who took them to their height is now gone. Butler parlayed the success into getting into the Big East but they are no longer the final Four threat they were when Stevens was the coach. good program, not elite, not great.

Purdue has been better than we have the last 10 years. Barely but they have. How can we possibly be a Top 5-6 program right now? You have Kentucky is better. Kansas is better. Duke is better. UCLA is better. North Carolina is better. Syracuse is better. Louisville is better. Arizona is better. Florida is better. Michigan State is better. Ohio State is better. That's 11 schools off the top of my head. They all play in big time conferences, get big time talent and have Final Four appearances in the last decade.
Edit: I think only Arizona hadn't made a FF in the last decade.

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I wasn't even a year old the last time we won a national title and even I'm saying we need to keep the expectations of one of the top programs in the country, which our history says we are. We have the facilities, we have the recruiting grounds, we have everything we need (okay with one glaring exception, but that's for a different thread). If we lower expectations we will never get back to that level, that's how we end up saying we exceeded expectations by finishing 7th instead of the predicted 9th.

Yes we do have the potential to be one of the best programs in the nation. But it takes the right people to lead it. Right now we're not the best in Indiana. And as of right now I'd say we're 4th from the past decade. Which obviously is terrible.

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I don't care what conference they're in. They've won more. People notice that. Just the two tourney runs were enough. Those two alone push them pay IU until something actually happens for us. Will that be this year? Doubtful but who knows. Heck maybe we should have hired Calipari.

Does a win against a powerhouse Michigan or Ohio State team mean more than a win against Richmond? Absolutely. Very few notice when a team like Butler consistently beats a conference filled with sub-100 and sub-200 RPI teams who hardly ever sniff the tournament. Those two tourney runs were great, but where is Butler headed now that Stevens is gone? Hows recruiting going for them? What are they doing to remain relevant?

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Does a win against a powerhouse Michigan or Ohio State team mean more than a win against Richmond? Absolutely. Very few notice when a team like Butler consistently beats a conference filled with sub-100 and sub-200 RPI teams who hardly ever sniff the tournament. Those two tourney runs were great, but where is Butler headed now that Stevens is gone? Hows recruiting going for them? What are they doing to remain relevant?

Well they're in the Big East now which isn't a bad conference actually. They seem to have gotten another good coach. They were a 5 seed last year and lost to a better ND team. They're obviously staying relevant for how small they are. Brunk is Top 100 right?

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Well they're in the Big East now which isn't a bad conference actually. They seem to have gotten another good coach. They were a 5 seed last year and lost to a better ND team. They're obviously staying relevant for how small they are. Brunk is Top 100 right?

So let's see how they do in a conference with slightly better talent and without Brad Stevens before we start bragging about all of their wins and success. Brunk is a composite #89 and 247 ranked #157 recruit. Solid player who should be pretty good in a few year. Indiana signed Thomas Bryant, a McDAA. Indiana and Butler just aren't even comparable.

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So let's see how they do in a conference with slightly better talent and without Brad Stevens before we start bragging about all of their wins and success. Brunk is a composite #89 and 247 ranked #157 recruit. Solid player who should be pretty good in a few year. Indiana signed Thomas Bryant, a McDAA. Indiana and Butler just aren't even comparable.

And Indiana and Butler will probably both be Top 25 and have around 23 wins.

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