IU vs. MSU Postgame

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Good point. The top programs in the BT do. Look at Wisconsin and their injuries the last few years.

The one season people point to of us not flaming out at the end, we lost a starter in the B1G tournament.

[8bucks 6,144]

I surely don't see much promise. I am seriously searching for a reason that someone would want to have him as our coach. The only thing I can come up with is the fear of change. I think people are afraid we will somehow end up with a Davis or Sampson 2.0. If you never take chances in life you stagnate and wither away, which is fine if you are 85 and content with your life. I sure hope IU isn't content with 5 banners and the accomplishments of the past.

We need a strong basketball coach. And I don't give a rip if he has the charisma of Bill Belichick as long as he can coach like him.

I really believe Crean is better than Davis but under Davis our average BT finish was 4.6. Under Crean, just since the rebuild was done, our average finish is 5.5. What exactly is the risk

[bnkepner 1,509]

I surely don't see much promise. I am seriously searching for a reason that someone would want to have him as our coach. The only thing I can come up with is the fear of change. I think people are afraid we will somehow end up with a Davis or Sampson 2.0. If you never take chances in life you stagnate and wither away, which is fine if you are 85 and content with your life. I sure hope IU isn't content with 5 banners and the accomplishments of the past.

We need a strong basketball coach. And I don't give a rip if he has the charisma of Bill Belichick as long as he can coach like him.

At this point i don't care if we lose players either. Start over with a  new coach, new players, and a new culture of hustle, playing D, and heart.

[bnkepner 1,509]

I really believe Crean is better than Davis but under Davis our average BT finish was 4.6. Under Crean, just since the rebuild was done, our average finish is 5.5. What exactly is the risk

When you compare the two styles, their offense was basically the same. I think they are super comparable. There isn't much difference to me

[JSHoosier 19,582]

This is the team he wanted? Uh, don't think so. Vonleh, Devin Davis, Fischer. Not excuses, realities.

The team has lost too many games they should have won, could have won with a decent effort on defense, late in the year. But overall, this team performed to its capabilities for the most part. The credit can't always go to "talent." As Izzo said, there are so many things people just don't know about...

Is the difference between 8th and 2nd really all that much? The B1G is down as you stated. Plus it's win the league or bust right?

If Stevens were available at the moment, that would be a different conversation. I don't think IU will fire him yet, but I could see him leaving.

That's what many posters said on this very board.  Also said Crean would have a chance to prove his coaching ability, and after starting off 15-4 we finish slightly better than predicted; if it was a chance to prove his ability it doesn't look good.  Of course, not long ago posters on this board were saying they wanted Kentucky in the tournament.  It's not a guarantee we'll even make the tournament, far from it, we're a bubble team and the committee does look at how you finish the year.

 

Those are realities AND excuses.  At the end of the day every coach deals with injuries and players leaving early.  Hell, we just lost to a team with one of their best players out due to injury.

 

Defense has been an issue all season long and really hasn't gotten any better, like another poster said this team is fundamentally bad on defense.  At some point it's no longer on the players, but the coaches.  When the same issues keep popping up, I look at the coaches.

 

I can't believe anyone still has faith in this guy as coach, and not long ago you said yourself you were done defending him.  Obviously not.  Do you have a personal, invested interest in Crean or do you just get off on thinking you know more than everyone?

[JSHoosier 19,582]

I really believe Crean is better than Davis but under Davis our average BT finish was 4.6. Under Crean, just since the rebuild was done, our average finish is 5.5. What exactly is the risk

I want to believe he is, but frankly Crean's two Sweet 16s here are the only thing keeping their resumes from practically being mirror images.

[8bucks 6,144]

I want to believe he is, but frankly Crean's two Sweet 16s here are the only thing keeping their resumes from practically being mirror images.

I would venture to say that Davis had the better postseason record too while they were IU coaches. Much better in BTT and getting to championship game with three other appearances is better.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

point conveniently averted. But yes, grammar was poor. It is also twitter with limited characters and no grading system.

You mean the point that a former swimmer said the players don't like Crean? Is that a real source?

[8bucks 6,144]

So this is one of the few times I can contribute to one of these conversations with my own "insider information." Back in 2013 the GF and I attended the UM vs IU basketball game in Ann Arbor. Obviously a fantastic game to be at and a heck of an ending. After the game and basking in the euphoria of IU winning its' first big ten title in 20 years, the GF and I decided to try and get on the court (partially to kill time so the parking lot would clear out) but also with the hope of meeting players. Well anyways, we got onto the court and started chatting it up with the grandmother of a starting five player for IU. My GF is very personable and so they hit it right off. Well, she was very forthcoming with information, but perhaps the most interesting tidbit of news I got was this, and paraphrasing the grandmother now: "My grandson says the players really miss Matt Roth, he was the only player that ever spoke up and told Crean he was practicing them too hard. Now, they are worn out before it's time for the game." We chatted a little bit more after that and got a few of the specifics, but that comment really hit home.

On a side note, I got to meet my idol that day, Calbert Cheaney...was in heaaaveeennnnn. I grew up idolizing him; and I must say he was amazingly nice and chatted with us for awhile. Always great when your idols turn out to be good individuals in reality. Also got to meet several players, Victor, Hulls, Yogi, Zeller, Hollowell. Anyways, just wanted to share my "insider information."

This is interesting. May point out why Matt was not so welcome to come back. You will not be believed though because Grandmas probably lie when in Michigan.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Let's also look at Michigan. They have lost a ton of guys to the NBA the last couple of years. Not five star guys that were likely headed there but guys like Vic that surprised and went early. Then this year they lose their two best players for more of the year and a had a few more injuries on top of that.

Where did they finish? Only 2 games behind us.

How is finishing BEHIND IU overcoming something BETTER than IU did?

[AKHoosier 6,592]

That's what many posters said on this very board.  Also said Crean would have a chance to prove his coaching ability, and after starting off 15-4 we finish slightly better than predicted; if it was a chance to prove his ability it doesn't look good.  Of course, not long ago posters on this board were saying they wanted Kentucky in the tournament.  It's not a guarantee we'll even make the tournament, far from it, we're a bubble team and the committee does look at how you finish the year.

 

Those are realities AND excuses.  At the end of the day every coach deals with injuries and players leaving early.  Hell, we just lost to a team with one of their best players out due to injury.

 

Defense has been an issue all season long and really hasn't gotten any better, like another poster said this team is fundamentally bad on defense.  At some point it's no longer on the players, but the coaches.  When the same issues keep popping up, I look at the coaches.

 

I can't believe anyone still has faith in this guy as coach, and not long ago you said yourself you were done defending him.  Obviously not.  Do you have a personal, invested interest in Crean or do you just get off on thinking you know more than everyone?

 

No it doesn't, and this is a very common misconception.  The committee looks at the entire body of work, from the start of the season to the end, without prejudice to how you ended the season.

[8bucks 6,144]

How is finishing BEHIND IU overcoming something BETTER than IU did?

How about this. The Michigan team was similar to our team last year that finished 9th. They had lost a lot of talent from the prior year and were young. Like us last year. Now imagine if we lost our best player, Noah. You think we still finish 9th? How about if we lose another key player like Troy (last year). Think we still finish 9th?

With all they had to overcome they were only two spots behind us.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

I'm not against replacing Crean. I'm just not ready for a knee jerk reaction and a piss poor hurried hire.

 

People liked comparing it to the Matt D at UNC. Fine, then go get a Roy Williams type, not some other mid-major coach who had 1 good recruit that could carry a team.

 

But, I believe that DURING THE F'ING SEASON isn't the time to talk about it.

[Dalton26 16,891]

No it doesn't, and this is a very common misconception. The committee looks at the entire body of work, from the start of the season to the end, without prejudice to how you ended the season.

I disagree 100%. How you finish does play a large role. Its fresh in voters minds and how your team reacts when more pressure is on should matter. Also mutliple announcers have said that they've spoken with committee members and they say it does matter. They do look at the whole body of work but if you have two teams with similar resumes but one finished strong and one finished weak how do you not take the one with a better finish?

[bnkepner 1,509]

No it doesn't, and this is a very common misconception.  The committee looks at the entire body of work, from the start of the season to the end, without prejudice to how you ended the season.

Dakich referenced a few members from the committee and they do in fact take all that stuff into play. He said they would take today's loss to an MSU team without Dawson into mind as well.

So we want to make the tournament so we can get beat out in the first round?? I don't understand. We have lost 4 straight in the same exact way with no signs of changes or adjustment. So we want to get into the tournament just to say we made the tournament?

[bnkepner 1,509]

I'm not against replacing Crean. I'm just not ready for a knee jerk reaction and a piss poor hurried hire.

 

People liked comparing it to the Matt D at UNC. Fine, then go get a Roy Williams type, not some other mid-major coach who had 1 good recruit that could carry a team.

 

But, I believe that DURING THE F'ING SEASON isn't the time to talk about it.

If you look at the meltdown they had this year, its basically the same thing they did during the entire Big Ten season last year. Crean has never made any sort of adjustment to his defense, offense, sub patterns, game plan, etc. Calling for his firing is not a knee jerk reaction. Its a long time coming. If he could make some sort of adjustment in his game plan and execution, Id by more than willing to allow him to stick around. But two years of the same exact thing has gotten really old

[JSHoosier 19,582]

I disagree 100%. How you finish does play a large role. Its fresh in voters minds and how your team reacts when more pressure is on should matter. Also mutliple announcers have said that they've spoken with committee members and they say it does matter. They do look at the whole body of work but if you have two teams with similar resumes but one finished strong and one finished weak how do you not take the one with a better finish?

The committee might like to claim they don't care about how a team finishes, but pretty well every year they show otherwise.  Of course they'll look at total resume, but they also look at how you finish.

[Dalton26 16,891]

The committee might like to claim they don't care about how a team finishes, but pretty well every year they show otherwise. Of course they'll look at total resume, but they also look at how you finish.

That's what I said.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

As far as I'm concerned this was a positive outcome. One step closer to Crean being on the way out and big recruits seeing a pretty good atmosphere

[8bucks 6,144]

The committee might like to claim they don't care about how a team finishes, but pretty well every year they show otherwise. Of course they'll look at total resume, but they also look at how you finish.

I thought we gave them too many reasons to leave us out after the Iowa loss. Today and the amazing slide just make it too easy to choose someone else.

Now, if we have Minn and the MD that is a pretty favorable draw in the BTT. Beating lower seeded Minn probably does not help much but a big win and a win or really good game against MD may do it.