Indiana won't be Indiana until it wants to be Indiana

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

This doesn't say anything. Only does if you allow it to fulfill what you want to hear. Unless bball4IU starts giving reliable information again, I consider his posts to be based on his opinion. I have not seen a post from "in the gym" in a few months.

Really...? Must have missed the post that we took a day off before the Purdue game...that helped us to prepare for that masterful performance..obviously I can't post crap all the time ..especially in season...Anytime my PM is open ..doesn't mean you'll get anything but you never know...just my opinion lol

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

It is interesting to look at and I missed the post where you broke down game by game.

I still think looking just at the second half score is an incomplete analysis. Half-over-half change matters. The data gets noisy as well when looking at blowouts in either direction (won or loss) or close games when foul shooting comes into play at end. These all factor into the score but don't fully reflect what a coach did or did not do at halftime.

For example, there could be a game where team A is down 8 at half and come back to take lead at some point then in final minute end up down 3. After fouling Team B to extend the game Team A ends up losing by 9. So Team A lost the second half by 1. Does that really say anything about a coaches halftime adjustments? By your analysis the coach didn't adjust at half but in fact they took the lead and lost in final minutes.

You sound like a very smart guy that knows numbers. I would agree with everything you said in this post.

 

The only thing I would say is a lot of numbers can be skewed to appear bad if you are losing. Win and there are no issues. Nobody looking for reasons we are losing. Just win baby.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

I do know, on a first hand basis. You're a joke, and if only you knew what is said about your little Twitter act.

Bring it...what time is practice today since you know

[CampHoosier 3,697]

This is so dumb. 

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Does Crean know your name yet or is he still calling you Detlef Schrempf? I thought you quit anyway. I'm not affiliated; never have been. But Crean's been around since long before Indiana, and Marquette, and Michigan State.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

This is so dumb.

Yeah my days here are likely numbered. Just like Crean ha

[MikeRoberts 6,834]

It is interesting to look at and I missed the post where you broke down game by game.

I still think looking just at the second half score is an incomplete analysis. Half-over-half change matters. The data gets noisy as well when looking at blowouts in either direction (won or loss) or close games when foul shooting comes into play at end. These all factor into the score but don't fully reflect what a coach did or did not do at halftime.

For example, there could be a game where team A is down 8 at half and come back to take lead at some point then in final minute end up down 3. After fouling Team B to extend the game Team A ends up losing by 9. So Team A lost the second half by 1. Does that really say anything about a coaches halftime adjustments? By your analysis the coach didn't adjust at half but in fact they took the lead and lost in final minutes.

I agree. If you look at one game or even a small sample from a birds eye view it could be a bit skewed. However, this has been a trend for Crean for at least three seasons. I made sure to look at our number one team to see both good and bad Crean teams. It's pretty consistent in the three consecutive seasons I looked at. I plan on doing the entire 7 years to see what that looks like.

It is an important stat to me because it tells me we are just trying to build a lead in the first half and hang on for dear life in the second half.

0-5 when trailing at the half. We are a perpetual crappy second half team under Crean.

Why?

[Alford Bailey 12,250]

Read my previous post. We were down by 8 at half and lost by 12 so we still lost the 2nd half. I think everyone will agree it could have been alot worse than 4 points if Bo would have wanted it to be.

Down 30 Bo called off the dogs. Embarrassing Crean must not be fun anymore.

[hoosierinIll 335]

A few thoughts on this thread...

 

1.  Glass will not fire Crean because to do so would highlight his biggest blunder as IU AD (Crean's extention).

2.  Glass has had a rocky road not only because of IU bball, but also because of other circumstances in athletic program such as women's bball.

3.   IU administration no longer acts like IU is an elite program & I'm not confident that if they fired Crean they would make a good hire.  (Think the Cubs...elite in terms of revenue, fan base, etc., but winning isn't as important as the money.)

4.  To think that all the former players think of Crean as a good coach isn't accurate.  They will respect Crean because they're classy and won't throw him under the bus, but that's simply not true.

5.   Crean is incredibly difficult to work with- he has incredibly high expectations while being incredibly disorganized and he doesn't communicate clearly within the program.

6.   Crean is absolutely and positively responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on in the program.  He recruits the players.  Picks the coaches.  Picks the system.  Chooses how much they practice/when the practice, etc.  AND, he gets paid almost 3.5 million a year to do it.  To play the "he can't make the shots, play defense" argument is REDICULOUS...because he can control everything else EXCEPT that.  The buck stops with him.  He pays the price for not winning even if he's doing his best.

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

It's not hard to have achieved more than Mike Davis, and Kelvin Sampso

 

And Knight. Didn't say it was hard; said he's done far more than anyone else and we want him gone. For what? Just to give someone else a try?

He's earned more time. Period.

 

 

It's not hard to have achieved more than Mike Davis, and Kelvin Sampson.

 I disagree. Mike Davis won a B1G title, made a final four, and coached in a national championship, has a better overall win %, has a better conference win %, and had more NCAA tournament appearances. How can we possible say Crean has performed better than Davis, when there is literally no evidence, outside of opinion, to suggest this is the case? Crean dealt with our program at its lowest point but lets not forget that Mike Davis was thrust into the Indiana head coaching position after our biggest icon was fired. Our program was in serious turmoil during that time period as well...... This is me trying to respectfully disagree.

[Alford Bailey 12,250]

A few thoughts on this thread...

 

1.  Glass will not fire Crean because to do so would highlight his biggest blunder as IU AD (Crean's extention).

2.  Glass has had a rocky road not only because of IU bball, but also because of other circumstances in athletic program such as women's bball.

3.   IU administration no longer acts like IU is an elite program & I'm not confident that if they fired Crean they would make a good hire.  (Think the Cubs...elite in terms of revenue, fan base, etc., but winning isn't as important as the money.)

4.  To think that all the former players think of Crean as a good coach isn't accurate.  They will respect Crean because they're classy and won't throw him under the bus, but that's simply not true.

5.   Crean is incredibly difficult to work with- he has incredibly high expectations while being incredibly disorganized and he doesn't communicate clearly within the program.

6.   Crean is absolutely and positively responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on in the program.  He recruits the players.  Picks the coaches.  Picks the system.  Chooses how much they practice/when the practice, etc.  AND, he gets paid almost 3.5 million a year to do it.  To play the "he can't make the shots, play defense" argument is REDICULOUS...because he can control everything else EXCEPT that.  The buck stops with him.  He pays the price for not winning even if he's doing his best.

1.Check

2.Check

3.Check

4.Check

5.Check

6.Check

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

A few thoughts on this thread...

 

1.  Glass will not fire Crean because to do so would highlight his biggest blunder as IU AD (Crean's extention).

2.  Glass has had a rocky road not only because of IU bball, but also because of other circumstances in athletic program such as women's bball.

3.   IU administration no longer acts like IU is an elite program & I'm not confident that if they fired Crean they would make a good hire.  (Think the Cubs...elite in terms of revenue, fan base, etc., but winning isn't as important as the money.)

4.  To think that all the former players think of Crean as a good coach isn't accurate.  They will respect Crean because they're classy and won't throw him under the bus, but that's simply not true.

5.   Crean is incredibly difficult to work with- he has incredibly high expectations while being incredibly disorganized and he doesn't communicate clearly within the program.

6.   Crean is absolutely and positively responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on in the program.  He recruits the players.  Picks the coaches.  Picks the system.  Chooses how much they practice/when the practice, etc.  AND, he gets paid almost 3.5 million a year to do it.  To play the "he can't make the shots, play defense" argument is REDICULOUS...because he can control everything else EXCEPT that.  The buck stops with him.  He pays the price for not winning even if he's doing his best.

I have a dump truck full of likes..... you can have them all.

[CottageGrove 563]

I agree. If you look at one game or even a small sample from a birds eye view it could be a bit skewed. However, this has been a trend for Crean for at least three seasons. I made sure to look at our number one team to see both good and bad Crean teams. It's pretty consistent in the three consecutive seasons I looked at. I plan on doing the entire 7 years to see what that looks like.

It is an important stat to me because it tells me we are just trying to build a lead in the first half and hang on for dear life in the second half.

0-5 when trailing at the half. We are a perpetual crappy second half team under Crean.

Why?

 

I missed your earlier post on this, so sorry if I just missed something. But what was it you looked at again? I thought I read that you looked at every game from the last 3 years, but I'm obviously missing something b/c we've trailed at halftime more than 5 times in that span, right?

[MikeRoberts 6,834]

I missed your earlier post on this, so sorry if I just missed something. But what was it you looked at again? I thought I read that you looked at every game from the last 3 years, but I'm obviously missing something b/c we've trailed at halftime more than 5 times in that span, right?

yes, looked at how we have performed in the first half and second halves of games over the past three years, which showed that we were pretty good in the first half as a whole and pretty bad in the second half as a whole.

Where I was unclear is in regards to IU losing every game that we have trailed at the half. That stat was just for this season not the full three years. Sorry

[Uspshoosier 44,223]

Don't forget they also beat a 13 seed unc Wilmington and a 10 seed Kent st team to make it to the final four. So to get to final four they beat a 12,13,1,10 seeds
Tournament shouldn't be the only thing that matters. I give TC all the credit in the world for taking care of business during reg season to get that #1 seed. In turn that makes your path thru tourney easier. So a SW16 run as a #1 seed is not near as impressive or thrilling for the fan base as a SW16 run for a #4,#5 or #6 seed.

This could be an arguement for Mike Davis being a better coach as well (if somebody wanted to do that). He made his run with a #5 seed all the way to the tournament. Beating teams like Utah, Oklahoma and Duke along the way.

[LazOffTheBench 3,638]

Count me among those who have little confidence that IU's administration can make a good hire if Crean is fired. Yes, Stevens would be a slam-dunk, but if IU has to go looking for a young up-and-comer who can take us to the CBB Promised Land, good luck with that evaluation process. The IU AD who saw greatness in Knight at Army isn't around any more.

[LazOffTheBench 3,638]

I'm too old for this drama, btw.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

 

Don't forget they also beat a 13 seed unc Wilmington and a 10 seed Kent st team to make it to the final four. So to get to final four they beat a 12,13,1,10 seeds
Tournament shouldn't be the only thing that matters. I give TC all the credit in the world for taking care of business during reg season to get that #1 seed. In turn that makes your path thru tourney easier. So a SW16 run as a #1 seed is not near as impressive or thrilling for the fan base as a SW16 run for a #4,#5 or #6 seed.

This could be an arguement for Mike Davis being a better coach as well (if somebody wanted to do that). He made his run with a #5 seed all the way to the tournament. Beating teams like Utah, Oklahoma and Duke along the way.

 

Yes that is correct. They also beat OK which was a #2 seed. So they beat a #1 and #2 seed in the same tournament. Has anybody done that in the last 7 or 8 years at IU?

 

I am just trying not to diminish what Mike Davis did with that team like others choose to do. Everyone says it wasn't his team and it was a fluke run. Anytime you beat a #1 and #2 seed in the tournament I would say your run was not a fluke.

 

I try to give credit where credit is due. Tom Crean had an outstanding Reg Season in 12' that is why we had the #1 overall seed. If we had a #1 seed every year and lost in the Sweet 16 you still may have some people calling for Creans job, but not near as many.

 

The sum of everything is why the majority of people myself included are starting speak up. The inconsistency along with the constant roster turnover are two main reasons I voice my opinion. I cannot speak for others.

 

I will not wish negative upon this current team or coach. I wish them the best, I know these are great players and TC is a good (not great) coach. He was almost undoubtedly the perfect coach for the job when he accepted it. IMO he is not the one to take us to the next level. He has got us out of the abyss and now I believe we will have no trouble getting a coach that can take us to that next level. For that I will be forever grateful to TC.

[jonz44 805]

Do we have a losing 2nd half record? Everyone is citing this but even last night we did better in the 2nd half than the 1st.

The only reason we did better in the second half is because Wisky let up. They CRUSHED IU to stay the second half. Major crushed!

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Yes that is correct. They also beat OK which was a #2 seed. So they beat a #1 and #2 seed in the same tournament. Has anybody done that in the last 7 or 8 years at IU?

 

I am just trying not to diminish what Mike Davis did with that team like others choose to do. Everyone says it wasn't his team and it was a fluke run. Anytime you beat a #1 and #2 seed in the tournament I would say your run was not a fluke.

 

I try to give credit where credit is due. Tom Crean had an outstanding Reg Season in 12' that is why we had the #1 overall seed. If we had a #1 seed every year and lost in the Sweet 16 you still may have some people calling for Creans job, but not near as many.

 

The sum of everything is why the majority of people myself included are starting speak up. The inconsistency along with the constant roster turnover are two main reasons I voice my opinion. I cannot speak for others.

 

I will not wish negative upon this current team or coach. I wish them the best, I know these are great players and TC is a good (not great) coach. He was almost undoubtedly the perfect coach for the job when he accepted it. IMO he is not the one to take us to the next level. He has got us out of the abyss and now I believe we will have no trouble getting a coach that can take us to that next level. For that I will be forever grateful to TC.

 

We were the #1 overall seed????