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Bk4life

No Holt?

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Seriously? Are you seriously saying that deflections s a meaningless stat because it isn't being kept track of in the stat box? Wow, just wow is all I can say. Go talk to any coach not named Mike D'Antoni and there is a 99.99% chance they keep track of deflections because it is an important stat

 

This. Deflections are huge. Bigger here than other places, but huge in the game of basketball.

 

Edit: Whether it's a big man or not, whether he's grabbing zero rebounds or not.

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This. Deflections are huge. Bigger here than other places, but huge in the game of basketball.

 

Edit: Whether it's a big man or not, whether he's grabbing zero rebounds or not.

I agree, especially with a running team BUT man cannot live on bread alone...meaning that if we are expected to go above 500 this year and make it into the NCAA's, we are going to need our interior to produce stats that include rebounds and points as well as the deflections...If we are seeing production of points from those deflections, much as looking at them like an assist, then its a great bonus for a running team...If we are deflecting and incapable of producing a lot of points from those deflections, then they lose their importance. Once we can capitalize on producing points from deflections...direct correlations...THEN I will give him an attaboy...until then...WORK HARDER...I want rebounds, blocks and points on that stat sheet...

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Whats the deal here? I remember the countless articles, board posts concerning this kid and how he would come in and immediately be a player...he sat like April...Hanner is obviously going to be ineffective in the Big Ten and we are not bringing Holt in to spell him, AT LEAST? Hartman is better than Holt at this point? Someone make me understand....We barely survived against an SMU that is nominal at best and without its best player...Holt should be getting some time...

 

I just went back through the recruiting thread for Holt.  I didn't see countless posts regarding his immediate impact.  At the beginning, the threads were "Kasongo would be better" and "Not the player for us".  Middle of the thread, it turned to "Kid could be underrated" and "Anxious to see what he could do in a couple of years".  Near the end, it was "Glad the kid is excited to be here". Not saying it's not a concern that he didn't play (but, neither did Priller, April, Ritchie, or Burton), but just that I'm not seeing the same backstory about immediate impact.

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Also, where was all the love here for Jeff Howard or Pritchard? I don't remember anyone going on about how many deflections either one of them had...EXACTY..nobody cared! Also, for the record, their stats are not much different than Hanners in comparison with time actually played...so lets have some PERSPECTIVE.

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Also, where was all the love here for Jeff Howard or Pritchard? I don't remember anyone going on about how many deflections either one of them had...EXACTY..nobody cared! Also, for the record, their stats are not much different than Hanners in comparison with time actually played...so lets have some PERSPECTIVE.

 

Perspective is like statistics- can mean many different things to many different people

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I agree, especially with a running team BUT man cannot live on bread alone...meaning that if we are expected to go above 500 this year and make it into the NCAA's, we are going to need our interior to produce stats that include rebounds and points as well as the deflections...If we are seeing production of points from those deflections, much as looking at them like an assist, then its a great bonus for a running team...If we are deflecting and incapable of producing a lot of points from those deflections, then they lose their importance. Once we can capitalize on producing points from deflections...direct correlations...THEN I will give him an attaboy...until then...WORK HARDER...I want rebounds, blocks and points on that stat sheet...

 

Okay, I agree with you that Hanner needs to produce more. And he WILL. If we see another 2/0 game from Hanner this year, yes we have problems. But I don't believe it's going to happen again. I'm not going to sit here and criticize him for not playing well though if we won the game. Sure, late in the year, when we lose a game and he has 2/0, I'll be right there with you, but for now we won the game and I think that is all that matters. We can look at "what ifs" later all we want to, but at least enjoy this. The team rallied together and overcame adversity at the start of each half and came out of battle with a win.

 

I will have some PERSPECTIVE (apparently we have to capitalize this whole word now) when I need to have some PERSPECTIVE. Have some PERSPECTIVE and look at the fact that we WON.

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Crean on Holt
“We are excited to bring Emmitt to Indiana at such a late date. We determined that we needed another quality player up front and we were able to uncover Emmitt’s potential availability. He is coming off a very impressive high school season and also an outstanding spring and summer with the Albany City Rocks. He would have been a high level recruit this coming year and we are happy to have him now.”

“Emmitt has a plus 7 wingspan which he uses to rebound, score around the basket, and block and alter shots. His energy and competitiveness come to life quickly when you watch him. We are very impressed with his feet, touch and feel for the game and look forward to his ever growing development.”

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Crean on Holt
“We are excited to bring Emmitt to Indiana at such a late date. We determined that we needed another quality player up front and we were able to uncover Emmitt’s potential availability. He is coming off a very impressive high school season and also an outstanding spring and summer with the Albany City Rocks. He would have been a high level recruit this coming year and we are happy to have him now.”

“Emmitt has a plus 7 wingspan which he uses to rebound, score around the basket, and block and alter shots. His energy and competitiveness come to life quickly when you watch him. We are very impressed with his feet, touch and feel for the game and look forward to his ever growing development.”

Endless arguing about the meaning of this quote in 3, 2, 1...

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Maybe because Emmit has yet to play a single minute of college ball and it wasn't his time to come in and play today in such a close game. Crean even said it wasn't his game to play today but he would get his minutes. Also, Hanner needs to play better but we would've lost the game if it wasn't for him.

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I agree that is probably the best explanation but when all we heard was how this kid would come in an IMMEDIATELY be able to contribute....seems like someones evaluation was a little off...that's all....I was excited to see this kid come in and wow us when we needed him and he never got off the bench...

 

I think your expectations were probably too high.  The offseason hype machine has been right before, and it's also been dead wrong.  To be honest, I think basing your expectations for a freshmen on recruiting rankings is probably a little more reliable than basing them on second hand anecdotes and Crean quotes from prior to the season (pick your poison).  Holt can still certainly be a contributor to the team this year, but not seeing him in the game last night was not a shock to me.

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Ok, I will cave...RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH! We WIN! King of the world, mah! Etc etc etc....Reality? Who needs it? critical thinking? Nah, we beat an overrated SMU team without their best player! We are gonna run the table!!! WOOHOOOO!!!! Indiana, oh Indiana we're all for you!!! Clap clap clap clap, sweat on forehead..3feet on the floor..clap clap clap...<rolling eyes>....Are some of us under the impression that Crean walked off the floor last night and popped a champagne bottle with the team and then took off for Hawaii??? I guarantee you he is watching film and concentrating on Hanner stats..Hell, interview with Jim Jackson he brought up Holt and it was impression that he must have forgotten about the kid being on the bench...

 

Once again, glad we won but moved on past that this morning....time to start applying some critical thinking to our performance and figuring out how to address a double zero before Big Ten season starts...

 

Sorry if I offended some of you that just cannot stand one big of criticism levied at the coaches or team....its not like I asked for the kid to be shot or Crean to be fired...PERSPECTIVE ( looks better in caps)

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I don't consider it a meaningless stat...IMO it's more important for our interior guys to maybe have more than 2 points and zero rebounds a game...if interior presence was measured on deflections alone or even in the top 10 of evaluations for interior play, we should be starting any number of guys as a center...if you are unable to grab a rebound, but it counts for you to get your fingers on the ball, then I could be a center....come on...let's see how excited you are about his play when we are shutdown by (insert Big Ten team here) due to his zero/zero stats...will you be counting deflections and be excited about it then? Probably not...PERSPECTIVE

You seem to have a misconception on what the deflection stat is. Deflections aren't counted on tipped rebounds, they are tipping/deflecting the dribble away from the opposing offensive player, tipping/deflecting a pass away from an opposing offensive player. They don't contribute directly to a steal or block, but work to disturbing the offensive rhythm, which is one of the biggest goals of every defense in the history of defense. Deflections are generally considered a purely defensive stat, whereas rebounds are subjective towards what end of the court your on.

 

Since we're on the subject of stats that don't mean much of anything, the +/- stat is beyond meaningless yet it is kept track of. Steals are also a completely misleading stat, depending on who the book keeper is they can decide who to attribute a steal to. A lot of the time the player causing the turnover doesn't get anything in the stat column. Those are just two examples of stats that are kept track of that are meaningless or completely misleading. Ricky Rubio is consistently one of the top guys in the NBA for steals, yet he is horrible defensively. 

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Maybe he isn't quite up to the "speed" of the college game yet and SMU bigs weren't the best game to throw him out there. How about he is mentally fragile after the Davis incident and Crean was actually trying to protect his head. He probably would have struggled. The game is as much mental as physical. IMO

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I will admit I was looking forward to seeing Holt in action last night, but when I think about it I realize the timing was not right. I got the impression from an interview he gave that this young man is feeling a buden of guilt with regard to the accident. I feel terrible for this kid. I trust in the Coach's evaluation of this skills and potential. I'm hoping that he will be able to give us meaningful minutes when we get into conference play. Right now I think his mindset is fragile and I think it is very important that he experience success in helping the team when he does get to play. What I don't want is for Emmitt to have a playing experience that makes him question his decision about coming to IU vs going to the prep school.

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I agree that is probably the best explanation but when all we heard was how this kid would come in an IMMEDIATELY be able to contribute....seems like someones evaluation was a little off...that's all....I was excited to see this kid come in and wow us when we needed him and he never got off the bench...

I was looking for him to get at least 5 but troy and Stan played really well maybe crean decided to not take people out as soon as they made a good play and let them get momentum in their first game back

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I didn't get to see the game but must admit I was shocked by HMP's ZERO boards in 29 minutes. I don't see how that's even possible unless both teams are making all their shots. We can only hope this is an aberration. I don't care how many deflections he gets (that's a lie as I do care) we MUST get strong boarding out of him or we will be toast. We're just too small inside for him to take a night off against a good team with quality bigs.

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You seem to have a misconception on what the deflection stat is. Deflections aren't counted on tipped rebounds, they are tipping/deflecting the dribble away from the opposing offensive player, tipping/deflecting a pass away from an opposing offensive player. They don't contribute directly to a steal or block, but work to disturbing the offensive rhythm, which is one of the biggest goals of every defense in the history of defense. Deflections are generally considered a purely defensive stat, whereas rebounds are subjective towards what end of the court your on.

 

Since we're on the subject of stats that don't mean much of anything, the +/- stat is beyond meaningless yet it is kept track of. Steals are also a completely misleading stat, depending on who the book keeper is they can decide who to attribute a steal to. A lot of the time the player causing the turnover doesn't get anything in the stat column. Those are just two examples of stats that are kept track of that are meaningless or completely misleading. Ricky Rubio is consistently one of the top guys in the NBA for steals, yet he is horrible defensively. 

 

Rubio is not a great defender, but the steals stat isn't misleading if you are looking for guys who force a lot of turnovers.  He isn't lucking into those numbers because of the scorekeeper.  And the name of the stat doesn't imply he is a good defender, just that he is good at "stealing" the ball from the offensive player, which is true.

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