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BlueDevil

College Bball Thread

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4 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 


It's been said in here before that Holtmann was on record as all but saying the Indiana job was too big for him. If true? Good. Go coach at a pretend basketball school one state over.

Who knows. Maybe Indiana inquired to Mack and he either said, "Thanks, but no thanks" or wasn't interested in a change at the time.

While either would have been a good hire theoretically, neither was a fit.

Moving on: No. Indiana is not the only program with good things not happening. There are also not bad things happening. It doesn't matter how hard "we" cry, no one will cry with us. So let's stop crying.


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People aren’t crying. They are stating their objective opinion. 

And even if they were sad and crying a guaranteed way to not cheer somebody up is to tell them to stop being sad 

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3 minutes ago, HinnyHoosier said:

 


Depends on the reason they're crying. Or (in most cases) moping. Or whatever you want to call the 'woe is me' outlook around here. Opinions most certainly can come across in a whining fashion. My opinion (a grumpy one, evidently): Too many people can't handle the long play. Also my opinion: Yes, this season had better show some promise. Let's just see what happens. More has been done with less, and less has been done with more.

I'm not normally so forward and snarky, sorry.

(But I'm not entirely sorry.)


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Oh please don’t try to pretend that people are stupid or aren’t able to recognize the long play because they don’t agree with your assessment. 

Archie had every opportunity to make the tourney in year 2. And now looks poised to miss it until at best year 4. He ignored and never addressed lack of effort an entire season. And something else before screw up selfish another thing that wasn’t dealt with  

In my years of leadership I have learned that people will endure a screw up for far longer than they will a slacker before morale goes into the crapper. 

Going into year 3, we are still incredibly young and are an injured PG away from being a chaotic mess.  And of effort was optional in year 2 I don’t see a lot of promise to it being required in year 3

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Oh please don’t try to pretend that people are stupid or aren’t able to recognize the long play because they don’t agree with your assessment. 
Archie had every opportunity to make the tourney in year 2. And now looks poised to miss it until at best year 4. He ignored and never addressed lack of effort an entire season. And something else before screw up selfish another thing that wasn’t dealt with  
In my years of leadership I have learned that people will endure a screw up for far longer than they will a slacker before morale goes into the crapper. 
Going into year 3, we are still incredibly young and are an injured PG away from being a chaotic mess.  And of effort was optional in year 2 I don’t see a lot of promise to it being required in year 3


I'll ask you to stop putting words in my mouth as your first instinct. Until you can do that, your opinion matters none to me.


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Oh please don’t try to pretend that people are stupid or aren’t able to recognize the long play because they don’t agree with your assessment. 
Archie had every opportunity to make the tourney in year 2. And now looks poised to miss it until at best year 4. He ignored and never addressed lack of effort an entire season. And something else before screw up selfish another thing that wasn’t dealt with  
In my years of leadership I have learned that people will endure a screw up for far longer than they will a slacker before morale goes into the crapper. 
Going into year 3, we are still incredibly young and are an injured PG away from being a chaotic mess.  And of effort was optional in year 2 I don’t see a lot of promise to it being required in year 3

I saw some benchings and no starts for second halves so let’s not act like there was zero consequences. Was there enough of it? I’d probably have done things differently but I’m also not a college coach for a reason.

I will say this though... if you can’t get fired up to play college ball you probably shouldn’t be playing college ball. If you can’t get fired up to play at Indiana University you should probably be playing elsewhere. Hopefully, those issues along with some maturity have been dealt with. Time will tell, as will Archie’s job security.


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Spent time looking at the "early top 25's". They have a little more substance now with the draft deadline. Some kids will still come back after going undrafted and some transfers remain. Some takeaways: 

1) The Big Ten is going to be the best conference by far. Michigan State is the consensus #1 team. Maryland and Ohio State will be final four contenders. Purdue and Michigan will be solid. Think Iowa and Minnesota are tournament teams. That seems to be bad news for IU but...

2) I think the rest of college basketball is going to be really really weak. Teams don't seem to be as talented as last year. (Example-Duke is the #2 preseason team in lots of polls..no way they are more talented than last years team. Same with UK-top 4 team) Lot of teams starting from scratch. That is good news for IU. They will play in the #1 conference. I have them as #8 in the Big Ten. That probably gets you an 8-10 seed in the tournament. No, banner six isn't coming in 2020 but making the tournament is a good step. 

3) As I said Michigan State is the clear cut #1. Doesn't mean anything but I don't see who else can take the top spot. Duke, Memphis, and UK will be talented. But I am adamant the one and done stuff doesn't work. Louisville is an intriguing team. Experience, grad transfers, top 10 class. 

I think this is a massive year for Archie Miller. They are relying on player development this year. I can see a scenario where if football really does bad that puts Fred Glass in a bad spot. If IU misses the tournament in this scenario I think the board fires Glass. Not sure what a new AD would do with Archie. I see IU as a 18-13 .500 Big Ten Team. We will see. 

Also unrelated but my Indiana college bold prediction is that the Evansville Aces will make the NCAA tournament this season. The Valley isn't what it used to be and McCarty has a ton of talent here. I think they have two top 150 kids. Think they had four total kids sitting out last year and all four could have started. 

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26 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Chris Mack went 20-14 last season. Holtmann went 20-15 and 8-12 in the conference last year. Archie went 19-16 and 8-12 in the conference last year. Archie/IU struggled but let's not act like Mack and Holtmann killed it last year either. If Holtmann went 20-15 here last year and 8-12 in conference, after going 25-9 and 15-3 in his first season, the people complaining about Archie would be complaining about how Holtmann can't get it done with his own players. 

We have three guys coming in who fill important needs and, more importantly, want to be Hoosiers. Let's wait and see what happens next year before declaring the program dead in the water. 

They made the tourney so let’s not just look at records. At the end of day Holtmann and Mack are getting the job done

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Spent time looking at the "early top 25's". They have a little more substance now with the draft deadline. Some kids will still come back after going undrafted and some transfers remain. Some takeaways: 
1) The Big Ten is going to be the best conference by far. Michigan State is the consensus #1 team. Maryland and Ohio State will be final four contenders. Purdue and Michigan will be solid. Think Iowa and Minnesota are tournament teams. That seems to be bad news for IU but...
2) I think the rest of college basketball is going to be really really weak. Teams don't seem to be as talented as last year. (Example-Duke is the #2 preseason team in lots of polls..no way they are more talented than last years team. Same with UK-top 4 team) Lot of teams starting from scratch. That is good news for IU. They will play in the #1 conference. I have them as #8 in the Big Ten. That probably gets you an 8-10 seed in the tournament. No, banner six isn't coming in 2020 but making the tournament is a good step. 
3) As I said Michigan State is the clear cut #1. Doesn't mean anything but I don't see who else can take the top spot. Duke, Memphis, and UK will be talented. But I am adamant the one and done stuff doesn't work. Louisville is an intriguing team. Experience, grad transfers, top 10 class. 
I think this is a massive year for Archie Miller. They are relying on player development this year. I can see a scenario where if football really does bad that puts Fred Glass in a bad spot. If IU misses the tournament in this scenario I think the board fires Glass. Not sure what a new AD would do with Archie. I see IU as a 18-13 .500 Big Ten Team. We will see. 
Also unrelated but my Indiana college bold prediction is that the Evansville Aces will make the NCAA tournament this season. The Valley isn't what it used to be and McCarty has a ton of talent here. I think they have two top 150 kids. Think they had four total kids sitting out last year and all four could have started. 


Mark Turgeon is never a threat for the Final 4.

Minnesota lost a lot.

Purdue will figure it out.

Michigan lost JB and Yaklich. Added a guy with little coaching experience. Lost some really good players.

Ohio State in the Final Four? Idk. They are good but not that good yet.


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13 minutes ago, Fkfootball1 said:

Ohio State in the Final Four? Idk. They are good but not that good yet.


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Also, if there is a knock against Holtmann, it's that he hasn't had much tournament success.

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15 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

 

The "Mack and Holtman are killing us" line looks completely ridiculous when it is put into context of ...

reality.

 

Mack maybe. He did after all make the tourney in year 1. 

Holtmann is 4-0 against Archie and is outrecruiting him in both overall talent and balance. Not to mention not missing the tourney 

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Mack maybe. He did after all make the tourney in year 1. 
Holtmann is 4-0 against Archie and is outrecruiting him in both overall talent and balance. Not to mention not missing the tourney 

This is the best summary. Mack and Holtmann collectively made the tourney 3-0. Collectively 4-1 against Archie. Collectively recruiting VERY well and filling important needs.

For those giving him a hard time, do you believe Archie is doing better or just challenging him for the sake of challenging him?


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8 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

They made the tourney so let’s not just look at records. At the end of day Holtmann and Mack are getting the job done

Are they though? Mack lost in the first round and Holtmann lost in the second round. Making the tournament is certainly better than not, but we were what, one win away from making the tournament? We're only talking about the difference of 1 win, 2 wins at the most. They both had more success than Archie last year, but not to the point where we should be kicking ourselves for hiring Archie instead of one of them. 

As for recruiting, Archie had a top 10 class last year. It hasn't panned out the way we've wanted, but that happens sometimes. For all we know, the same thing will happen with Holtmann/Mack's classes. This year, Archie has a solid class coming in. We've got Mr. Basketball/McDonald's All American TJD, former top 100 recruit Joey Brunk, and Armaan Franklin. By all accounts all three are hard working multi-year players who like each other. With the rumored team chemistry problems from last year, this is huge. The class doesn't look sexy on paper, but I expect people to be pleasantly surprised.

Last year was a disaster, no argument from me there. Despite that, the two guys people are wishing we went after didn't do much better. So, I understand some of the concern, but I don't understand those who are mad we didn't hire Holtmann or Mack.

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Are they though? Mack lost in the first round and Holtmann lost in the second round. Making the tournament is certainly better than not, but we were what, one win away from making the tournament? We're only talking about the difference of 1 win, 2 wins at the most. They both had more success than Archie last year, but not to the point where we should be kicking ourselves for hiring Archie instead of one of them. 
As for recruiting, Archie had a top 10 class last year. It hasn't panned out the way we've wanted, but that happens sometimes. For all we know, the same thing will happen with Holtmann/Mack's classes. This year, Archie has a solid class coming in. We've got Mr. Basketball/McDonald's All American TJD, former top 100 recruit Joey Brunk, and Armaan Franklin. By all accounts all three are hard working multi-year players who like each other. With the rumored team chemistry problems from last year, this is huge. The class doesn't look sexy on paper, but I expect people to be pleasantly surprised.
Last year was a disaster, no argument from me there. Despite that, the two guys people are wishing we went after didn't do much better. So, I understand some of the concern, but I don't understand those who are mad we didn't hire Holtmann or Mack.

See above. You said last year was a disaster. Enough said.

I’m cheering for Archie but I am not going to argue with anyone that says they wish we would have gotten one of the other two guys. Nobody in Columbus or Louisville are saying last year was a disaster but we are in Bloomington. And, when it really mattered and OSU and IU both needed wins it make the tourney, OSU wiped the floor with us to give Holtmann his 4th straight victory over Archie to get his team in to the tournament


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5 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

 

The "Mack and Holtman are killing us" line looks completely ridiculous when it is put into context of ...

reality.

 

Some early top 25 polls have Louisville as a top 5 team with one having them at number 2. They wasn't as loaded last season as some think but made it into the tournament. I would say that Mack is getting it done there.

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