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Class of '66 Old Fart

Coronavirus and Its Impact

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2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

It's not completely unproven.  That's false and patently inaccurate.   The medical community's protocol has never been set up to react to pandemics onset by a brand new virus.  The FDA (unless you've been under a rock, you know this) has allowed clearance of several things more quickly recently than in the past and you have car makers producing ventilators (I doubt their factories are sterile and OSHA approved for such things), which are a little tricky. 

So unless you're in favor of and idiotic enough to think shutting down our economy for two years so we can have a peer reviewed paper to tell you a 65 year old medication (which doctors are already prescribing and is being used successfully) is safe and generally effective for an off label use, you might have to dive into today's reality and drop your biases.   Your final comment is laughably elementary and completely transparent. 

Do you have any proof of these claims. Or just your opinions?

And if it’s so safe how come people have literally died?

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16 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I didn't say that's why it was pushed, implied sure; for the record after posting it I saw where his investment firm said he's donated to both parties.  I said the primary shareholder is a big time GOP donor, he is.  I didn't make anything up, you just didn't like the implication.

Do I think Republicans are an evil group?  Never said that.  I'll openly admit I have nothing good to say about the likes of McConnell and Graham though.

The implication was pretty obvious.   I don't have much good to say about any professional politician, but this country has ALWAYS been unprepared for cataclysmic events like this, and the reasons are myraid.  To politicize THIS one is as dumb as politicizing 9/11, Pearl Harbor, or Hurricane Katrina.  Sh!t happens.  Sometimes bad sh!t.   You battle when it does, but blaming serves no purpose.

For the record :  https://kerrypicket.com/dr-fauci-we-acted-against-coronavirus-very-very-early/?utm_source=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR1RFE6W0T3g54ZvmdViX-ZrZDpJ5QgXp5A12sHu3I8Hh49tMnBvP4RWFVQ

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I honestly am not sure what you are asserting here. But the drug may or may not work. Doctors are unconvinced. They require stuff like evidence. 

Actually, doctors are prescribing it left and right, as it's the only weapon they really have.  It's the "experts" that need studies and "evidence."  

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3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Do you have any proof of these claims. Or just your opinions?

And if it’s so safe how come people have literally died?

Look them up yourself.

Who has literally died using HCQ as a mono-pharmaceutical, or who didn't have a significant underlying condition?    I love how you contradicted your question with your statement.  That's not easy to do.

Edit :  Here's the rep from Michigan.  You and I both know you won't look anything up, and if you did you'd probably Google Big Bird and tell me you found nothing. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/michigan-democrat-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-her-life/

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10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Do you have any proof of these claims. Or just your opinions?

And if it’s so safe how come people have literally died?

Go do some research.  The only publicized death is some idiot who took fish tank cleaner.  It's side effects are relatively nil as compared to half the crap they tout in tv commercials to make your pp hard.  

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7 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Look them up yourself.

Who has literally died using HCQ as a mono-pharmaceutical, or who didn't have a significant underlying condition?    I love how you contradicted your question with your statement.  That's not easy to do.

Edit :  Here's the rep from Michigan.  You and I both know you won't look anything up, and if you did you'd probably Google Big Bird and tell me you found nothing. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/michigan-democrat-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-her-life/

He's probably talking about the person who died after he ingested fish tank cleaner that the media tried blaming on Trump

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33 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So yeah if this causes an existing condition to kill you it still counts.  What are you opposed to in that lol. 
 

Out of curiosity were you the one saying we would never see Italy like numbers here. Keep trying to move those goalposts. 

Because there is a difference between dying "from" and dying "with."    Guy with pancreatic cancer dies in a car crash.  You'd count that as a death from cancer if you're not opposed to how deaths are being counted.   

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Some lessons to learn :

1)  Dying because you ingest fish tank cleaner because it has a similar singular ingredient to what you heard on TV is not a side effect of the real drug

2)  Sources exist other than the ones we listen to.   That doesn't make the ones we listen to automatically right and others automatically wrong.  Implying as much takes away 100% of your credibilty.

3)  Disliking a president or a boss or any other authority figure is not grounds for dismissing everything they say or do as wrong or stupid.  All that does is make you sound like Donnie Baker.  I swear to God.

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California and Oregon are both returning ventilators to the federal stockpile because they don't need them. Cuomo said today that ny has plenty of beds and enough ventilators. Most hospitals across the country are empty because they cancelled almost everything a month ago to prepare for the onslaught that they were told was coming in "two weeks." It's almost time for America to get back to work. 

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26 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

California and Oregon are both returning ventilators to the federal stockpile because they don't need them. Cuomo said today that ny has plenty of beds and enough ventilators. Most hospitals across the country are empty because they cancelled almost everything a month ago to prepare for the onslaught that they were told was coming in "two weeks." It's almost time for America to get back to work. 

Screw that, I've been working!  I need a vacation

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39 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

2)  Sources exist other than the ones we listen to.   That doesn't make the ones we listen to automatically right and others automatically wrong.  Implying as much takes away 100% of your credibilty.

3)  Disliking a president or a boss or any other authority figure is not grounds for dismissing everything they say or do as wrong or stupid.  All that does is make you sound like Donnie Baker.  I swear to God.

On #2:  avoid op ed pieces disguised as fact.  It's really that simple.

On #3:  You keep assuming that if someone disagrees with something that 'a president or a boss or any other authority figure is not grounds for dismissing everything they say or do as wrong' assumes that is what the person is doing when they disagree with them.  It's an old and tired non-defense deflection.  It's a total non-attempt at actually debating the point by attacking the messenger as biased.  Arguments stand or fall on their own merit regardless of who says them.

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1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

On #2:  avoid op ed pieces disguised as fact.  It's really that simple.

On #3:  You keep assuming that if someone disagrees with something that 'a president or a boss or any other authority figure is not grounds for dismissing everything they say or do as wrong' assumes that is what the person is doing when they disagree with them.  It's an old and tired non-defense deflection.  It's a total non-attempt at actually debating the point by attacking the messenger as biased.  Arguments stand or fall on their own merit regardless of who says them.

It’s all he can do. Let’s set aside the scientific methods because it doesn’t match what some blowhard is saying though.  

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1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

On #2:  avoid op ed pieces disguised as fact.  It's really that simple.

On #3:  You keep assuming that if someone disagrees with something that 'a president or a boss or any other authority figure is not grounds for dismissing everything they say or do as wrong' assumes that is what the person is doing when they disagree with them.  It's an old and tired non-defense deflection.  It's a total non-attempt at actually debating the point by attacking the messenger as biased.  Arguments stand or fall on their own merit regardless of who says them.

#2)  An easy thing to say, but I'd ask you to cite an example.   I don't recall disguising anything as fact; and have cited my sources.  Most of them quotes or printed headlines; not the opinion pages.   Hard to "op ed" things that actually happen.  The evidence on HCQ is out there and will be in print soon enough.   We've really only had a few weeks, but there's a reason physicians all over the world are prescribing it. Because it doesn't have 100% buy in from the millions pf physicians worldwide doesn't make the evidence YOU don't believe erroneous.

#3)  I'm not assuming when that's what a particular person has done for an entire discussion.  That's a lot of words to make no point at all.  What have I deflected?  Take a look at this thread and let me know objectively whether or not you think I've debated, cited true sources, etc or the person about whom I made that comment has done the same.  If you can objectively come to the conclusion that I'm the one who's dodged or deflected the debate,THEN you can go on a verbose rant which might have some merit.

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11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It’s all he can do. Let’s set aside the scientific methods because it doesn’t match what some blowhard is saying though.  

See above.   "It's all he can do?"  Read the thread.  You have zero comprehension that this situation is not "normal," and we don't have time for "normal."   Physicians prescribing it worldwide doesn't signify something to you because guys in lab coats haven't reviewed a paper and deemed it sound because they haven't seen 25,000 patients in true clinical trials and placebo trials.  Nobody's saying the old school way wouldn't be nice, but why don't you tell me how we can turn the economy off for 18 months so we can do it your way.  I'll wait.  Again....this ain't normal. The rules have changed a bit.  Why do you think the defense production act exists and why governors are begging to have it enacted?  So we can do things as "normal?"   Doctors are blowhards?  Really?  This is being used worldwide...literally.  And because YOU don't like the protocol, it's BS.   Got it.  I'll grant there's not a whole lot of data, but there's also zero negative data, plenty of positive data with more coming daily, and the drug has been in use for 65 years.  

You were eerily silent until someone agreed with part of what you said.  You remind me of Scut Farkas's little helper in "A Christmas Story"

If you think I'm deflecting or missing something, present YOUR case.  You asked for sources and I gave you one above.  Crickets.  Let's see what you're made of.

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1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

See above.   "It's all he can do?"  Read the thread.  You have zero comprehension that this situation is not "normal," and we don't have time for "normal."   Physicians prescribing it worldwide doesn't signify something to you because guys in lab coats haven't reviewed a paper and deemed it sound because they haven't seen 25,000 patients in true clinical trials and placebo trials.  Nobody's saying the old school way wouldn't be nice, but why don't you tell me how we can turn the economy off for 18 months so we can do it your way.  I'll wait.  Again....this ain't normal. The rules have changed a bit.  Why do you think the defense production act exists and why governors are begging to have it enacted?  So we can do things as "normal?"   Doctors are blowhards?  Really?  This is being used worldwide...literally.  And because YOU don't like the protocol, it's BS.   Got it.  I'll grant there's not a whole lot of data, but there's also zero negative data, plenty of positive data with more coming daily, and the drug has been in use for 65 years.  

You were eerily silent until someone agreed with part of what you said.  You remind me of Scut Farkas's little helper in "A Christmas Story"

If you think I'm deflecting or missing something, present YOUR case.  You asked for sources and I gave you one above.  Crickets.  Let's see what you're made of.

You and your partisan Hackery aren’t worth responding too. You are devoid of objectivity. I ignored you the same way I would ignore somebody else’s screaming toddler at a store.  
 

You have no facts to back up your claims. You are simply parroting the claims of somebody that has failed at just about everything he has ever done. 
 

You say there’s 0 data against this drug despite people having died from taking it. You are a partisan Who ignores everything that doesn’t fit within his tiny and limited worldview 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axios.com/chloroquine-coronavirus-death-09c91a91-4fe7-472c-9de9-79b890aa8fff.html

So dead people don’t count as negative data?  How little value can you possibly have for human life 

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