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Class of '66 Old Fart

Coronavirus and Its Impact

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25 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The primary shareholder of the company that makes it is a big time GOP donor though.

Why is this important at all?    Even a little bit?    This is agenda driven crap.  Lots of companies make it.  It's been around since 1955 and has been generic for longer than I've been alive.   Everybody says "trust the experts!"   Well, in this case, those experts are doctors.  Doctors are starting to see results, publish papers, and tout its efficacy.   So now it becomes about money and donors?   Do you truly believe repubicans are just an evil group of people?   Like I said before, Donald Trump can do no right in the eyes of some, and people create this fake stuff every time there's good news.  It's exhausting.   But this is what "fake news" looks like.

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9 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

 

Yeah, I made a mistake there.   Thought one thing and sourced another.  Brain cramp.

The affects of this remain to be seen, and I'm not for any kind of corruption.    I don't know the reason, but so far, I really don't think precedent exists to assume the worst of Trump.   Especially on something that would be so blatantly obvious.

Appreciate that.

Opinions are free, but facts need to be sourced, and you are reliably true to that standard.
 

For instance:

Opinion: Matt Haarms is annoying as hell and has a punchable face.

Fact: Matt Haarms and his annoying punchable face blindsided  Purdue and left them!  ;)

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

I honestly am not sure what you are asserting here. But the drug may or may not work. Doctors are unconvinced. They require stuff like evidence. 

Depends on where you get your information and what doctors you're talking about.   The ones that are old school and need an 18 month peer reviewed clinical trial?   Some of them may doubt and call the evidence anecdotal, and in their world?  They're right.   But...   Many more do not.  New study from France (Paper published next week) with 1,000 patients studied for COVID-19, almost unanimous positive results and shortening of symptoms.  No adverse reactions worse than a rash.  Head  (Dr. Wallace) of Cedars Sinai Rheumatology program (2,000+ patients on HCQ for Lupus) show zero cases of COVID-19 among that group, and zero adverse reactions.   As I mentioned above, Michigan state rep took it and credits it for saving her life.  Governor of Michigan had your thoughts 2 weeks ago, now asking for more and more of the medication and asking her doctors to prescribe it.    Successfully used in almost every country with COVID cases.

There is more positive news on it every day and the reason it's anecdotal is the drug has really only been tried in this capacity for 3 weeks or so.  However, the evidence "for" is mounting very day.  So like I said, it depends on what information you use.  It's been around for 65 years.  It's a known from an adverse reactions perspective and it's extremely safe in the doses being utilized.   It's not a cure, but it significantly reduces the symptoms and no patient who has taken it in early onset has so far needed a ventilator.  

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1 minute ago, Old Friend said:

Depends on where you get your information and what doctors you're talking about.   The ones that are old school and need an 18 month peer reviewed clinical trial?   Some of them may doubt and call the evidence anecdotal, and in their world?  They're right.   But...   Many more do not.  New study from France (Paper published next week) with 1,000 patients studied for COVID-19, almost unanimous positive results and shortening of symptoms.  No adverse reactions worse than a rash.  Head  (Dr. Wallace) of Cedars Sinai Rheumatology program (2,000+ patients on HCQ for Lupus) show zero cases of COVID-19 among that group, and zero adverse reactions.   As I mentioned above, Michigan state rep took it and credits it for saving her life.  Governor of Michigan had your thoughts 2 weeks ago, now asking for more and more of the medication and asking her doctors to prescribe it.    Successfully used in almost every country with COVID cases.

There is more positive news on it every day and the reason it's anecdotal is the drug has really only been tried in this capacity for 3 weeks or so.  However, the evidence "for" is mounting very day.  So like I said, it depends on what information you use.  It's been around for 65 years.  It's a known from an adverse reactions perspective and it's extremely safe in the doses being utilized.   It's not a cure, but it significantly reduces the symptoms and no patient who has taken it in early onset has so far needed a ventilator.  

Okay so yes if you get your evidence from peer reviewed journals. IE the way the medical community and scientific community is set up in general. The drug is completely unproven.  
 

On a related note I have a rock that keeps tigers away. My evidence is that no tiger has ever been observed near it.  

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47 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The primary shareholder of the company that makes it is a big time GOP donor though.

The drug is off patent and made in generic form by many other companies. No one is going to make a fortune off this. 

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7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Dr. Birx confirmed tonight that if you die with covid-19 they count you as a covid-19 death. She admitted it was a very liberal approach to counting deaths. Seems quite possible that the numbers they're repeating are overestimates. 

Source?  
 

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34 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Actually it's not.  It's wide open for anyone to see.  He put's his freaking name on everything.  Compare that to things like the Clinton Foundation, kinda secret.  

I didn't say anything was secret.  I said the corruption is transparent, so yeah it's wide open for everyone to see.

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7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Ever heard of insulin

Nope, this is the first time.

Which seems more likely to you: (a) billionaire president is pushing chloroquine because a mutual fund he owns has anywhere from a $99 to $15,000 stake in one of the many companies that produces the drug; or (b) president is pushing chloroquine because it's showing promising results and an effective treatment for coronavirus greatly increases his reelection chances?

There isn't a conspiracy here.

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6 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Her mouth.

 

So yeah if this causes an existing condition to kill you it still counts.  What are you opposed to in that lol. 
 

Out of curiosity were you the one saying we would never see Italy like numbers here. Keep trying to move those goalposts. 

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56 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Why is this important at all?    Even a little bit?    This is agenda driven crap.  Lots of companies make it.  It's been around since 1955 and has been generic for longer than I've been alive.   Everybody says "trust the experts!"   Well, in this case, those experts are doctors.  Doctors are starting to see results, publish papers, and tout its efficacy.   So now it becomes about money and donors?   Do you truly believe repubicans are just an evil group of people?   Like I said before, Donald Trump can do no right in the eyes of some, and people create this fake stuff every time there's good news.  It's exhausting.   But this is what "fake news" looks like.

I didn't say that's why it was pushed, implied sure; for the record after posting it I saw where his investment firm said he's donated to both parties.  I said the primary shareholder is a big time GOP donor, he is.  I didn't make anything up, you just didn't like the implication.

Do I think Republicans are an evil group?  Never said that.  I'll openly admit I have nothing good to say about the likes of McConnell and Graham though.

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2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So yeah if this causes an existing condition to kill you it still counts.  What are you opposed to in that lol. 
 

Out of curiosity were you the one saying we would never see Italy like numbers here. Keep trying to move those goalposts. 

She said "if someone dies with covid-19, we are counting that as a covid-19 death." Heart attack? Covid-19. Suicide? Covid-19. If Kobe had tested positive for covid-19, they would've counted that as a covid-19 death. I think you can figure out why that'd lead to inaccurate numbers. But, I guess they have to cook the books as much as possible because their models continue to get it completely wrong. 

Thread:

 

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9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

She said "if someone dies with covid-19, we are counting that as a covid-19 death." Heart attack? Covid-19. Suicide? Covid-19. If Kobe had tested positive for covid-19, they would've counted that as a covid-19 death. I think you can figure out why that'd lead to inaccurate numbers. But, I guess they have to cook the books as much as possible because their models continue to get it completely wrong. 

Thread:

I would've been interested in hearing the rest of the line of questioning, the reporter followed up by asking something about coroner reports.

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35 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Okay so yes if you get your evidence from peer reviewed journals. IE the way the medical community and scientific community is set up in general. The drug is completely unproven.  
 

On a related note I have a rock that keeps tigers away. My evidence is that no tiger has ever been observed near it.  

It's not completely unproven.  That's false and patently inaccurate.   The medical community's protocol has never been set up to react to pandemics onset by a brand new virus.  The FDA (unless you've been under a rock, you know this) has allowed clearance of several things more quickly recently than in the past and you have car makers producing ventilators (I doubt their factories are sterile and OSHA approved for such things), which are a little tricky. 

So unless you're in favor of and idiotic enough to think shutting down our economy for two years so we can have a peer reviewed paper to tell you a 65 year old medication (which doctors are already prescribing and is being used successfully) is safe and generally effective for an off label use, you might have to dive into today's reality and drop your biases.   Your final comment is laughably elementary and completely transparent. 

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She said "if someone dies with covid-19, we are counting that as a covid-19 death." Heart attack? Covid-19. Suicide? Covid-19. If Kobe had tested positive for covid-19, they would've counted that as a covid-19 death. I think you can figure out why that'd lead to inaccurate numbers. But, I guess they have to cook the books as much as possible because their models continue to get it completely wrong. 
Thread:
[/url]  

This is true. All the numbers are misleading. Same for the flu too. Not everyone with it is confirmed because not everyone with it is tested. But that’s normal FG or misleading numbers to get out. Look at the “school shooting” statistics. It’s a media driven game at this point.

By the way, the virus needs to be taken seriously. Because it will impact the elderly, newborn, pregnant and those with pre-existing conditions the hardest. But the same should be said for the flu.


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