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RaceToTheTop

Starting lineup

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This. The core of this team will be back next year barring the unforeseen. And there is a strong possibility they will be back for the next two years. Add in Thompson and you have a really good six man rotation that will have played multiple years together. 
This year was always a bridge year and all predictions were that this team would be a bubble team. Well guess what? that is where they are because that is in accordance with the talent on the roster. Next year and the year after are where Indiana really makes its jump. If that doesn't happen, then yes something serious went wrong and Archie will have questions to answer. 
Call me a slow learner. Call me stupid, I don't care. I don't have the mob mentality. 

Actually IU isn’t on the bubble yet. Still solidly in the field. Lose the next 2 home games and they will be on the bubble but as of today nowhere near the cut line


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1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You actually do have mob mentality... more people want to sit on their hands and wait and tell everyone who doesn’t think Archie is a good coach that they aren’t real fans and to go root for Purdue. While those of us ready for a change just say we aren’t playing good basketball and haven’t under Archie. So one minority may want change but the blind followers just try to beat the optimism into them. Fact is, if Archie doesn’t change his offense, he’s going to be fired.

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You should go to Facebook and Twitter. Very few say there needs to be a change and that Archie isn’t good enough. Most are sunshine pumpers and will try to beat it into you.

1 hour ago, IUc2016 said:

We must have different Facebook's and Twitters if that is what you find on there. 

59 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

It’s the majority. But many are starting to see the light. Just not enough yet.

9 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

Fact is...it won't be this year.

7 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

It won’t be this year. No one at IU has what it takes to pull that trigger. After next season? Yea. If things don’t start improving and he is missing out on 2021 prospects.. he’s done.

 

**OFF TOPIC**

**THERE IS A SPECIFIC THREAD FOR THIS CRAP, LOADED** (I have moved these posts to that thread.)

This thread is about IUBB's starting lineup.

 

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Can’t create what isn’t there. We don’t have a starting 5.

I don’t want any of our guards starting. None of them are very good. Smith isn’t very good. Hunter shows spurts when he hits shots. Brunk hustles and is a smart player. Not athletic enough.

Our starting 5?

TJD and 4 dudes. We don’t have 1 other player that deserves starter minutes.


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Can’t create what isn’t there. We don’t have a starting 5.

I don’t want any of our guards starting. None of them are very good. Smith isn’t very good. Hunter shows spurts when he hits shots. Brunk hustles and is a smart player. Not athletic enough.

Our starting 5?

TJD and 4 dudes. We don’t have 1 other player that deserves starter minutes.


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Honestly TJD is the only guy that could would have gotten major minutes on either of our last two B1G title teams. He would have likely started next to Bryant in 15-16 but he would have been Zellers backup in 12-13. Everyone was would be backups or random minutes. Though I honestly believe Crean would have found a way to make Smith work.


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3 hours ago, Aaron said:

You hope Archie makes it to the end of his contract but there is zero chance he gets seven years if he does not make tournament before that. Most he gets is 4 or 5 if  he still has not made tourney by then. 

He's not going anywhere for at least another season or two.   That's not hope.

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5 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


Archie will either be fired before his contract is up or he will figure out how to coach basketball and get an extension. Durham and Smith are his. As bad as you want to convince yourself, Archie has been their only coach. Injuries aren’t an excuse anymore. This team and coach have serious issues and need to make massive changes. But guess what? Archie is all talk. He will say changes need to be made but guess what will happen? Nothing. The same will continue to be done because he doesn’t have a clue and he is on pace to not seeing a year 5 at IU. He may not see a year 4 if things take a turn for the worst and he’s back in the NIT.


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No..they're not.  They were recruited by Crean.  Their skills are what their skills are, and I promise I've coached longer than you have.  It's all but impossible to teach a kid different skills than he has or raise his basketball IQ unless he works hard at that.  He can improve. He can develop.  But neither Durham nor Smith came in here as high basketball IQ guys (same w Green), defenders first who could play well in Archie's offense.  (If you want to say Archie should/could have adjusted some things, that's fair) And they both show flashes, but neither is consistent.   You can spin it however you want to convince yourself, but neither were recruited by Archie.  That's a fact.

Archie took Green out of the starting lineup.  He has benched him twice,   Spin THAT however you want as well; but that's something different than "nothing."    You and so many others can only see what's in front of your face and have no ability or maybe interest in looking beyond what you see and actually think through a problem and use your brain.  You'd rather be negative, critical, call for jobs, etc...  Nobody's happy with the results so far.  Nobody.   

But....when Crean got here, the cupboard was bare.  Nobody here.  And people gave him 3 years before they whined.about results.  In year 3, his record was 12-20; 11th in the Big Ten.  Archie came here and lost Deron Davis and Colin Hartman his first year.   He counted on Zach McRoberts heavily....that kid played more minutes than all but 3 or 4 players that season.   Curtis Jones transferred.  Freddie McSwain played a lot.  Josh Newkirk played a lot.  DeVonte Green played big minutes.  So did Durham and Smith as freshmen.  Stop me when you think that team should do much?

Last season, they lost Phinisee for a long time, and he wasn't right for weeks after his concussion, on the floor or not.  Hunter (who Miller was counting on) never played due to injury.  Race Thompson was out most of the year.   Deron Davis was awful, slow, and couldn't do much.  Morgan got doubled every time he touched it.  Romeo was hurt a lot and exposed for not having a left hand.

THIS season, Indiana's results, while not up to past standards, are STILL a lock right now for the NCAA Tournament, have several quality wins, and they'd have at least one more (Maryland) without incredibly stupid decisions by.....Green and Durham.  See above.

Those things are real.  They're not fabricated and they're not spin.  Archie is in year 2 of his players.  Fact.  The results aren't there yet...I acknowledge.  But that doesn't automatically extrapolate into "fire him....he sucks."  Unless of course you can't use logic.

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38 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

He's not going anywhere for at least another season or two.   That's not hope.

I agree with that which is right at year or 4 or 5 which is what I said.

His contract runs seven years though and he is not making to the end of that as you said without a tournament appearance at some point in that time frame.  

I hope Archie succeeds as well and he makes it to end of contract but that is not guarantee as you stated before unless he picks it up in next year or 2.

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No..they're not.  They were recruited by Crean.  Their skills are what their skills are, and I promise I've coached longer than you have.  It's all but impossible to teach a kid different skills than he has or raise his basketball IQ unless he works hard at that.  He can improve. He can develop.  But neither Durham nor Smith came in here as high basketball IQ guys (same w Green), defenders first who could play well in Archie's offense.  (If you want to say Archie should/could have adjusted some things, that's fair) And they both show flashes, but neither is consistent.   You can spin it however you want to convince yourself, but neither were recruited by Archie.  That's a fact.
Archie took Green out of the starting lineup.  He has benched him twice,   Spin THAT however you want as well; but that's something different than "nothing."    You and so many others can only see what's in front of your face and have no ability or maybe interest in looking beyond what you see and actually think through a problem and use your brain.  You'd rather be negative, critical, call for jobs, etc...  Nobody's happy with the results so far.  Nobody.   
But....when Crean got here, the cupboard was bare.  Nobody here.  And people gave him 3 years before they whined.about results.  In year 3, his record was 12-20; 11th in the Big Ten.  Archie came here and lost Deron Davis and Colin Hartman his first year.   He counted on Zach McRoberts heavily....that kid played more minutes than all but 3 or 4 players that season.   Curtis Jones transferred.  Freddie McSwain played a lot.  Josh Newkirk played a lot.  DeVonte Green played big minutes.  So did Durham and Smith as freshmen.  Stop me when you think that team should do much?
Last season, they lost Phinisee for a long time, and he wasn't right for weeks after his concussion, on the floor or not.  Hunter (who Miller was counting on) never played due to injury.  Race Thompson was out most of the year.   Deron Davis was awful, slow, and couldn't do much.  Morgan got doubled every time he touched it.  Romeo was hurt a lot and exposed for not having a left hand.
THIS season, Indiana's results, while not up to past standards, are STILL a lock right now for the NCAA Tournament, have several quality wins, and they'd have at least one more (Maryland) without incredibly stupid decisions by.....Green and Durham.  See above.
Those things are real.  They're not fabricated and they're not spin.  Archie is in year 2 of his players.  Fact.  The results aren't there yet...I acknowledge.  But that doesn't automatically extrapolate into "fire him....he sucks."  Unless of course you can't use logic.

Who cares who recruited him? Is Archie not a good enough coach to coach them? If he can’t coach up a couple kids who have never been under another coach, then he doesn’t need to be at Indiana. Smith is a high IQ player yet put in a bad position by Archie. In fact, everyone is put in a bad position by Archie and that’s why our offense sucks. The results aren’t there and won’t be there because Archie doesn’t have what it takes and that’s become more clear than ever this season. He belongs in the mid majors. That just his coaching talent.


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No..they're not.  They were recruited by Crean.  Their skills are what their skills are, and I promise I've coached longer than you have.  It's all but impossible to teach a kid different skills than he has or raise his basketball IQ unless he works hard at that.  He can improve. He can develop.  But neither Durham nor Smith came in here as high basketball IQ guys (same w Green), defenders first who could play well in Archie's offense.  (If you want to say Archie should/could have adjusted some things, that's fair) And they both show flashes, but neither is consistent.   You can spin it however you want to convince yourself, but neither were recruited by Archie.  That's a fact.
Archie took Green out of the starting lineup.  He has benched him twice,   Spin THAT however you want as well; but that's something different than "nothing."    You and so many others can only see what's in front of your face and have no ability or maybe interest in looking beyond what you see and actually think through a problem and use your brain.  You'd rather be negative, critical, call for jobs, etc...  Nobody's happy with the results so far.  Nobody.   
But....when Crean got here, the cupboard was bare.  Nobody here.  And people gave him 3 years before they whined.about results.  In year 3, his record was 12-20; 11th in the Big Ten.  Archie came here and lost Deron Davis and Colin Hartman his first year.   He counted on Zach McRoberts heavily....that kid played more minutes than all but 3 or 4 players that season.   Curtis Jones transferred.  Freddie McSwain played a lot.  Josh Newkirk played a lot.  DeVonte Green played big minutes.  So did Durham and Smith as freshmen.  Stop me when you think that team should do much?
Last season, they lost Phinisee for a long time, and he wasn't right for weeks after his concussion, on the floor or not.  Hunter (who Miller was counting on) never played due to injury.  Race Thompson was out most of the year.   Deron Davis was awful, slow, and couldn't do much.  Morgan got doubled every time he touched it.  Romeo was hurt a lot and exposed for not having a left hand.
THIS season, Indiana's results, while not up to past standards, are STILL a lock right now for the NCAA Tournament, have several quality wins, and they'd have at least one more (Maryland) without incredibly stupid decisions by.....Green and Durham.  See above.
Those things are real.  They're not fabricated and they're not spin.  Archie is in year 2 of his players.  Fact.  The results aren't there yet...I acknowledge.  But that doesn't automatically extrapolate into "fire him....he sucks."  Unless of course you can't use logic.

Whether you like Smith or Durham or not, they are here and need to be put in a position to succeed. Right now it seems like the best spot for both would be Smith starting at the 4 and Durham being the 6th man while running a 3 guard rotation. Hunter should get the biggest chunk of the minutes at the 3. Smith should only be playing the 3 if Race is in the game. TJD plays the 5 with Brunk and Davis backing him up. And between Brunk and Davis, you just play with who is playing better. But to hate on the 2nd best player and the intellectual on the team isn’t right. Going after the wrong people.


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If you are going between who is playing better in any particular game -- Brunk or Davis -- 95% of the time it's going to be Brunk.  For that reason, IMO, Davis is unplayable.  If we need a bulky big, Brunk is the guy.  If we don't, then TJD is the post getting spelled by Race.  I simply am not seeing what Davis adds other than fouls and missed layups.

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10 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


Honestly TJD is the only guy that could would have gotten major minutes on either of our last two B1G title teams. He would have likely started next to Bryant in 15-16 but he would have been Zellers backup in 12-13. Everyone was would be backups or random minutes. Though I honestly believe Crean would have found a way to make Smith work.


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What is funny is that the 2015-6 team was considered at the time to be an incredibly overachieving team.  Four years later, five players from that team have played in the NBA.

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If you are going between who is playing better in any particular game -- Brunk or Davis -- 95% of the time it's going to be Brunk.  For that reason, IMO, Davis is unplayable.  If we need a bulky big, Brunk is the guy.  If we don't, then TJD is the post getting spelled by Race.  I simply am not seeing what Davis adds other than fouls and missed layups.

There have been games where Brunk has been unplayable. And times where Davis has looked better. Against Maryland, both should be greatly limited in minutes as neither can keep up.


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I’m at the point where I want to see Franklin, Hunter and TJD starting no questions. Now the fill in around that is difficult. I think Smith works best at the 4. Brunk and TJD never need to be on the floor together. EVER. Really the only players I even want returning next season are Franklin, Hunter and TJD.


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I’m done with Phinisee.

I don’t like anyone too much.

Green
Durham
Hunter
TJD
DeRon

Illinois just won because they have 2 dudes. We don’t even have 2 dudes.

And maybe some of you are surprised, but those 2 dudes were and are their highest rated recruits. Unfathomable.


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I’m done with Phinisee.

I don’t like anyone too much.

Green
Durham
Hunter
TJD
DeRon

Illinois just won because they have 2 dudes. We don’t even have 2 dudes.

And maybe some of you are surprised, but those 2 dudes were and are their highest rated recruits. Unfathomable.


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And yet there were a lot who thought we’d be better than Illinois and that Ayo wasn’t any better than anyone we had and that Frazier wasn’t better than Phinisee. Those people were wrong.


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And yet there were a lot who thought we’d be better than Illinois and that Ayo wasn’t any better than anyone we had and that Frazier wasn’t better than Phinisee. Those people were wrong.


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Cockburn and Ayo. 2 dudes I was referring to. Wait until next year preseason and we say how great X,Y,Z will be after the off season. Fun times.


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