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RaceToTheTop

Your Starters and Lineups

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Assuming health, I’d go Phinisee, Green, Durham, Smith and TJD. 
Brunk comes in for TJD
Hunter in for Smith
Anderson in for Durham
Franklin in for Green/Phinisee 
Thompson for a few to go big for a bit. 
We need to get quicker, faster and more skilled, and create more space. 

If Hunter and Anderson can’t contribute they don’t need to play unless needed. We should have an 8 man rotation at this point. The 11 man really doing anything. And Green just isn’t a starter. I’m not sure why everyone wants Green to start, but I think it’s clear as day he’s best off the bench and isn’t someone who should be trusted to lead anything or anyone.


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6 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


If Hunter and Anderson can’t contribute they don’t need to play unless needed. We should have an 8 man rotation at this point. The 11 man really doing anything. And Green just isn’t a starter. I’m not sure why everyone wants Green to start, but I think it’s clear as day he’s best off the bench and isn’t someone who should be trusted to lead anything or anyone.


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Becaise Green needs to be playing alongside a healthy Phinisee, so he can focus on what he does best, as he did at the end of last season. In that role he can excel. We also need to get at least one of, preferably both of, Hunter or Anderson going offensively. 

One thing Hunter has shown, albeit it limited, is a good touch from the post. I think/hope he could excel and gain confidence playing closer to the basket spelling Smith as a 4. It’s pretty clear at this point that Smith needs to go to his natural 4 and the team needs to go smaller. 

Basically every team just packs the paint against our big lineup and it completely halts the offense. 

I agree on shorter lineup. In my scenario I’d have Brunk and Franklin playing the bigger minutes off the bench, Anderson and Hunter fewer unless they begin to excel, and Thompson on an as-needed basis. 

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Becaise Green needs to be playing alongside a healthy Phinisee, so he can focus on what he does best, as he did at the end of last season. In that role he can excel. We also need to get at least one of, preferably both of, Hunter or Anderson going offensively. 
One thing Hunter has shown, albeit it limited, is a good touch from the post. I think/hope he could excel and gain confidence playing closer to the basket spelling Smith as a 4. It’s pretty clear at this point that Smith needs to go to his natural 4 and the team needs to go smaller. 
Basically every team just packs the paint against our big lineup and it completely halts the offense. 
I agree on shorter lineup. In my scenario I’d have Brunk and Franklin playing the bigger minutes off the bench, Anderson and Hunter fewer unless they begin to excel, and Thompson on an as-needed basis. 

Green has never proven to be a starter. If we are depending on him, we suck. Period. He’s a bench player because he can do one thing only and that’s chuck. He’s more than proven he should only be coming off the bench. That’s where he excels.

And Hunter has proven nothing. He takes 1.8 shots per game. He’s proven he can brick 3’s and swing the ball.

As for Smith, he has excelled at the 3 more than he ever has at the 4. In case you don’t remember his first two seasons? We just need a big off the bench. That’s Brunk. This team isn’t getting better on offense by going smaller. They are just going to suck. That’s who they are. That’s who the coach is. So they have to take advantage of what they are good at. Like defense and rebounding and just hope to hell they do something on offense and hit FT’s.


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After TJD the choices for starters aren't great. We're playing too many guys for too long. We can't go to a 3-guard lineup because our guards are the weakest link on the team. Three bad guards are not better than two bad guards. Stop with the mass substitutions--bring them in one at a time. Our 2nd team isn't good enough to bring in all at once.

Start TJD, Smith, Brunk, Phinisee, Durham.  

Bring Green off the bench as soon as either Durham or Phinisee start missing shots or turning it over. Franklin has had one very good game but generally is no more than an OK sub. His shooting has been reliably off except in the Notre Dame game and he really shouldn't be shooting 3s unless he is absolutely wide open. Brunk is inconsistent so against teams with size up front Archie is going to have to play D'Ron Davis more than he has. OK he is slow but DD has good interior moves if he can stop fouling.  Thompson can come in to give TJD a breather but don't leave him in the game any longer than necessary. More times than not he can't hit a layup and he has absolutely no business shooting 3s. Anderson and Hunter can take turns giving Smith a breather but unless they are showing something more than they have their minutes should be limited.

There is no reason why TJD gets only 3 touches in a half. If an opposing player is fronting him that means either one of our other front court players (Brunk or Smith) is open or the ball can be swung around so TJD  gets an easy basket. 

There is actually enough talent on this team to win games but the discipline has to be much better and so does the coaching. Archie needs to be more creative and make adjustments when things aren't working. He comes in with a game plan and never seems to deviate no matter what is happening on the floor.

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14 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


Green has never proven to be a starter. If we are depending on him, we suck. Period. He’s a bench player because he can do one thing only and that’s chuck. He’s more than proven he should only be coming off the bench. That’s where he excels.

And Hunter has proven nothing. He takes 1.8 shots per game. He’s proven he can brick 3’s and swing the ball.

As for Smith, he has excelled at the 3 more than he ever has at the 4. In case you don’t remember his first two seasons? We just need a big off the bench. That’s Brunk. This team isn’t getting better on offense by going smaller. They are just going to suck. That’s who they are. That’s who the coach is. So they have to take advantage of what they are good at. Like defense and rebounding and just hope to hell they do something on offense and hit FT’s.


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Yeah, because it works really well in basketball in this era when 3/5 of your starting lineup can't shoot or penetrate. You have seen teams basically just standing in the paint for entire second halves and our offense completely grinding to a halt? 

Smith is better this year because he's older, more mature and experienced, and playing within himself, not because he's playing on the wing. Once an opposing coach figures out we can't shoot, they completely lay off of Smith, Brunk and TJD, meaning none of them have any room to operate in the paint. It completely neuters our offense. 

Smith and TJD are best in the paint, but neither can get there in the big lineup once a coach adjusts (which will be much quicker in Big Ten play, as evidenced by Wisconsin and Nebraska).  

Smith's production has dropped a lot as the competition has risen, the talent has gotten better, etc. Against Power 5 schools he's averaging just 9.6 ppg on 44% from the field and 14% from 3. Against the softer part of the schedule he averaged 14.2 ppg on 57.3% from the field and 36.3% from 3.

Teams simply don't defend him, TJD, Race or Brunk on the perimeter. Against the softer schedule he could get by, but against good competition he doesn't shoot well enough and his handles aren't good enough to penetrate from the wing, especially with TJD and Brunk's defenders waiting there.  

We need to go smaller. 

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Yeah, because it works really well in basketball in this era when 3/5 of your starting lineup can't shoot or penetrate. You have seen teams basically just standing in the paint for entire second halves and our offense completely grinding to a halt? 
Smith is better this year because he's older, more mature and experienced, and playing within himself, not because he's playing on the wing. Once an opposing coach figures out we can't shoot, they completely lay off of Smith, Brunk and TJD, meaning none of them have any room to operate in the paint. It completely neuters our offense. 
Smith and TJD are best in the paint, but neither can get there in the big lineup once a coach adjusts (which will be much quicker in Big Ten play, as evidenced by Wisconsin and Nebraska).  
Smith's production has dropped a lot as the competition has risen, the talent has gotten better, etc. Against Power 5 schools he's averaging just 9.6 ppg on 44% from the field and 14% from 3. Against the softer part of the schedule he averaged 14.2 ppg on 57.3% from the field and 36.3% from 3.
Teams simply don't defend him, TJD, Race or Brunk on the perimeter. Against the softer schedule he could get by, but against good competition he doesn't shoot well enough and his handles aren't good enough to penetrate from the wing, especially with TJD and Brunk's defenders waiting there.  
We need to go smaller. 

What is going smaller going to do? Is that magically going to makes us better at shooting? Nope. Because our guys are terrible at that. No reason to get away from any strength we do have. Doesn’t matter what lineup we throw on the floor, teams will pack the paint and make us shoot. Going small just makes us a worse rebounding and defensive teams.


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13 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


What is going smaller going to do? Is that magically going to makes us better at shooting? Nope. Because our guys are terrible at that. No reason to get away from any strength we do have. Doesn’t matter what lineup we throw on the floor, teams will pack the paint and make us shoot. Going small just makes us a worse rebounding and defensive teams.


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Yeah, no. Just doing what we’ve been doing isn’t the answer. Going smaller makes us a quicker, more athletic team. It will allow us to play faster. It will open driving lanes for our guards/wings to get to the basket, which not only helps the offense and opens things up for TJD and Smith in the paint, and Brunk when he comes in, but also can help our guards and wings gain confidence of they can get some easy buckets in transition and the half court. 

It also can help us defensively, and preventing penetration has been a huge issue. We’d be quicker and faster defensively. 

It’s also 100%, crystal clear that Justin Smith is not a wing. He doesn’t have the skill or shooting. He needs to be in the paint. 

Does all of this work? Maybe, maybe not. But we do know what we’re currently doing isn’t working.  

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40 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, no. Just doing what we’ve been doing isn’t the answer. Going smaller makes us a quicker, more athletic team. It will allow us to play faster. It will open driving lanes for our guards/wings to get to the basket, which not only helps the offense and opens things up for TJD and Smith in the paint, and Brunk when he comes in, but also can help our guards and wings gain confidence of they can get some easy buckets in transition and the half court. 

It also can help us defensively, and preventing penetration has been a huge issue. We’d be quicker and faster defensively. 

It’s also 100%, crystal clear that Justin Smith is not a wing. He doesn’t have the skill or shooting. He needs to be in the paint. 

Does all of this work? Maybe, maybe not. But we do know what we’re currently doing isn’t working.  

Only problem is by going smaller theoretically you space the floor for TJD because smaller means more shooters, we have none so the lane is still packed and no driving lanes either 

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38 minutes ago, BtownBanner6 said:

Only problem is by going smaller theoretically you space the floor for TJD because smaller means more shooters, we have none so the lane is still packed and no driving lanes either 

You space the floor by being able to attack the basket with quickness. You cause the defense to scramble with quick ball and people movement to create mismatches, etc. You also play at a faster pace. And maybe, with quicker offense that produces easier shots, your guards and wings gain some confidence and start hitting a few more open jumpers. 

Will it definitely work? I don’t know. But I do know playing Smith at the wing along with TJD and Brunk (3 guys together that don’t even attempt jumpers and none of them can dribble drive either) completely stalls out the offense. TJD, Brunk and Smith don’t have room to operate and none of our guards and wings have any room to attack the basket. 

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5 hours ago, BGleas said:

You space the floor by being able to attack the basket with quickness. You cause the defense to scramble with quick ball and people movement to create mismatches, etc. You also play at a faster pace. And maybe, with quicker offense that produces easier shots, your guards and wings gain some confidence and start hitting a few more open jumpers. 

Will it definitely work? I don’t know. But I do know playing Smith at the wing along with TJD and Brunk (3 guys together that don’t even attempt jumpers and none of them can dribble drive either) completely stalls out the offense. TJD, Brunk and Smith don’t have room to operate and none of our guards and wings have any room to attack the basket. 

I agree the smaller lineup is our best for defensive purposes and good defense is our best offense. But with no shooters teams aren’t worried about mismatches and quick attacks to the basket because they can have 4 people in the paint at all times and maybe one guy to chase Green 

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I agree the smaller lineup is our best for defensive purposes and good defense is our best offense. But with no shooters teams aren’t worried about mismatches and quick attacks to the basket because they can have 4 people in the paint at all times and maybe one guy to chase Green 

Exactly. Going smaller for this team literally does nothing. Still no outside threats anywhere. And we won’t play at a quicker pace with more ball movement and player movement. That’s just not an Archie Miller offense.


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Putting Brunk on the bench? Brunk was IU's best player Saturday. And, Brunk is the only one playing with any heart. The problem isn't just that TJD, Smith and Brunk can't shoot. It is that no one on the team, except for Green, can shoot. And, Green is streaky. It was interesting that Archie employed a full court press once IU was down by 30 points. That's when the offense clicked because we forced turnovers. Why didn't we use the full court earlier when it could have made a difference?  Everyone is playing tight. So how about employing a more aggressive defense and a less robotic offense?

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13 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Agreed he needs to play 30+ minutes

Definitely, but can he?  This is not the same kid in any way, shape or form that I watched multiple times in high school.  He's a shadow of himself and there seems to be no rational explanation for what the problem is.  

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4 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Definitely, but can he?  This is not the same kid in any way, shape or form that I watched multiple times in high school.  He's a shadow of himself and there seems to be no rational explanation for what the problem is.  

I don't know but we have to see if he can. I also would shorten the rotation, Anderson and Thompson might not be in it. Either use Thompson or Davis but not both ever in the same game. 

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Feels to me like Durham should be the primary backup at both guard positions; maybe even at the three.
There was a version of DeRon Davis last February in which he was diving for loose balls, fouling hard, and squawking loud. We need that version mucho pronto.
 

Yep, it’s time like these where you lean on your veterans.


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