Negativity Thread

[Chris007 42,072]

Just now, bigrod said:

But like you said, you don't have to play them. If you really want a player to leave, but the admin says no, you don't play him and he will most likely decide to leave on his own.

100%

[mdn82 25,456]

I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

I think my problem with them on this is they need to look at the National numbers first. Second they need to realize handicapping any coach or resource of the program only makes things more difficult for us to collectively get what we want. I have no doubt that’s the way they feel, but I think it’s **** for them to not get out of the way. Too many cooks in the kitchen.


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[rcbowla 6,733]

Are we really going to pin this disaster on a couple of players that play the bulk of the minutes.

This is ridiculous. Yes, these players aren’t very good. Yes, Smith drives me nuts with everything he does.

We have 11 or 10 other roster spots to deal with. I don’t care if he is a cancer or not. He probably wants to win and doesn’t like what Archie is doing.

What else can Archie do but blame the players? And how convenient is it he can blame a few he didn’t recruit.

This doesn’t build or inspire my hope one bit.


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My thoughts exactly only expressed better lol

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[Class of '66 Old Fart 80,954]

Was this all sprung on Archie after the fact?  Did he not expect the problem with the players to be as bad as it seemingly is?  Why would any coach go into a job with these conditions?  

[Chris007 42,072]

14 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Was this all sprung on Archie after the fact?  Did he not expect the problem with the players to be as bad as it seemingly is?  Why would any coach go into a job with these conditions?  

I know for sure the part of no transfers wasn't told until after he took the job. Fred held that till after he signed the contract and got to Bloomington. 

[JSHoosier 19,560]

12 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I know for sure the part of no transfers wasn't told until after he took the job. Fred held that till after he signed the contract and got to Bloomington. 

LOL of course.  Our genius AD, ladies and gentlemen......

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

I know for sure the part of no transfers wasn't told until after he took the job. Fred held that till after he signed the contract and got to Bloomington. 

He didn’t play Forrester and Moore at all, even when it was so obvious they should get some run and they left.

It was obvious to us to them, they were buried so far down the bench that their only option was to transfer.

He could have done this to Smith and hasn’t. In fact smith starts and plays as much as anyone. I actually don’t blame smith for being frustrated. He is our second most productive player in an offense that isn’t good for him.

If he wants to post up, he has TJD and Brunk clogging the lane. If he wants to drive, he has TJD and Brunk clogging the lane. If he wants to play on the perimeter he is limited to the shots he is allowed to take.

What is he supposed to do in this offense? I would be frustrated as hell too.


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[Brass Cannon 24,064]

4 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

LOL of course.  Our genius AD, ladies and gentlemen......

Does sound like a lawyer move 

[LamarCheeks 16,823]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I think that is the problem. Crean did it so often the current administration doesn't want the basketball staff to do it anymore. Now, why were still playing these guys is the real problem. 

One thing that puzzles me (OK. There are a lot of things that puzzle me). ... Does problem # 1 (I'm guessing we all know who that is by now -- or can guess) have such a hold or influence over the fellas that if Archie decides to bench him, he fears losing the team? Because from where I sit, he doesn't contribute that much anyway. What's the risk in benching him? That we lose? Hell, we've already lost nine times and are gonna lose more, especially if we have a couple guys giving a half-a$$ed effort. To me the risk vs. reward is too skewed toward risk if we keep playing him. Sit his a$$. 

[Chris007 42,072]

Just now, LamarCheeks said:

One thing that puzzles me (OK. There are a lot of things that puzzle me). ... Does problem # 1 (I'm guessing we all know who that is by now -- or can guess) have such a hold or influence over the fellas that if Archie decides to bench him, he fears losing the team? Because from where I sit, he doesn't contribute that much anyway. What's the risk in benching him? That we lose? Hell, we've already lost nine times and are gonna lose more, especially if we have a couple guys giving a half-a$$ed effort. To me the risk vs. reward is too skewed toward risk if we keep playing him. Sit his a$$. 

That is the question I can't get an answer for. It seems no one knows why he continues to play him let alone start him. 

[IUc2016 6,925]

18 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

He didn’t play Forrester and Moore at all, even when it was so obvious they should get some run and they left.

It was obvious to us to them, they were buried so far down the bench that their only option was to transfer.

He could have done this to Smith and hasn’t. In fact smith starts and plays as much as anyone. I actually don’t blame smith for being frustrated. He is our second most productive player in an offense that isn’t good for him.

If he wants to post up, he has TJD and Brunk clogging the lane. If he wants to drive, he has TJD and Brunk clogging the lane. If he wants to play on the perimeter he is limited to the shots he is allowed to take.

What is he supposed to do in this offense? I would be frustrated as hell too.


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I strongly disagree that Smith has reason to be frustrated about not being able to post up or drive or shoot.

Have you watched him try to post up? he does so 2-3 times a game and tries a turnaround hook shot which usually ends up a foot short. Or he gets blocked. He is the weakest finisher on the team.

Have you watched him try to drive the last three years? It usually ends in a charge, a travel, or a blocked shot. The clogged lane issue was not there last year or the year before. 

And he is limited on the shots he can take? You want Justin Smith to have the green light from the perimeter? No way. Pile on Archie all you want but what you described just isn't the Justin Smith I have watched the last few years. 

[ap2345 7,096]

And his roommate isn't much better from what I'm told. Just a failure as a class altogether. As I asked why play them? Only answer I got was the staff feels like they have too. I said do they realize they're going to be looking for a job if they continue. No answer. 

That sounds to me like they are feeling pressure to make the tournament and those players are there best option to win in their minds. Sounds to me like Archie is starting to feel the pressure which is something I’ve been wondering the last few weeks.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

I strongly disagree that Smith has reason to be frustrated about not being able to post up or drive or shoot.
Have you watched him try to post up? he does so 2-3 times a game and tries a turnaround hook shot which usually ends up a foot short. Or he gets blocked. He is the weakest finisher on the team.
Have you watched him try to drive the last three years? It usually ends in a charge, a travel, or a blocked shot. The clogged lane issue was not there last year or the year before. 
And he is limited on the shots he can take? You want Justin Smith to have the green light from the perimeter? No way. Pile on Archie all you want but what you described just isn't the Justin Smith I have watched the last few years. 

I agree with the Justin Smith take. All the things you described. But then, why play him? Sure he plays good defense when and only when he’s locked in. Offensively, he’s almost useless. He does try to offensive rebound more than others.

It’s an enigma to me why he starts and plays so many minutes. I think that tells us how bad the roster really is in terms of talent.




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[MikeRoberts 6,832]

I strongly disagree that Smith has reason to be frustrated about not being able to post up or drive or shoot.
Have you watched him try to post up? he does so 2-3 times a game and tries a turnaround hook shot which usually ends up a foot short. Or he gets blocked. He is the weakest finisher on the team.
Have you watched him try to drive the last three years? It usually ends in a charge, a travel, or a blocked shot. The clogged lane issue was not there last year or the year before. 
And he is limited on the shots he can take? You want Justin Smith to have the green light from the perimeter? No way. Pile on Archie all you want but what you described just isn't the Justin Smith I have watched the last few years. 

He is the second most productive player from a plus/minus standpoint behind TJD, so without going entirely negative on him, what would you say he is good at?


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[Chris007 42,072]

11 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I strongly disagree that Smith has reason to be frustrated about not being able to post up or drive or shoot.

Have you watched him try to post up? he does so 2-3 times a game and tries a turnaround hook shot which usually ends up a foot short. Or he gets blocked. He is the weakest finisher on the team.

Have you watched him try to drive the last three years? It usually ends in a charge, a travel, or a blocked shot. The clogged lane issue was not there last year or the year before. 

And he is limited on the shots he can take? You want Justin Smith to have the green light from the perimeter? No way. Pile on Archie all you want but what you described just isn't the Justin Smith I have watched the last few years. 

I wish we could have the stats on when he touches the ball how often do we get a basket and how often he turns it over. Seems like he turns it over a lot when he has the ball in his hands. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,188]

I wish we could have the stats on when he touches the ball how often do we get a basket and how often he turns it over. Seems like he turns it over a lot when he has the ball in his hands. 

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[IUc2016 6,925]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

He is the second most productive player from a plus/minus standpoint behind TJD, so without going entirely negative on him, what would you say he is good at?


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I think when locked in, Justin Smith is a great defender in this league. Last year he didn't let Lamar Stevens do anything at Penn State. He was a HUGE reason we won the Michigan State game on the road because of his defense and effort. Last week he shut down Joe Wieskamp and it was great. 

I don't think he should play nearly as much as he does because of his offensive issues, but if he has a great matchup where he can shut down someone on defense then he should play 30ish minutes. But again, that would require 2 things. First, Archie would have to be willing to make that change. Second, Justin would have to be willing to accept that role. Those are BIG ifs. 

As for production, I would actually argue that his production shows he has NO reason to be frustrated with this offense. It allows him to be the second most productive player DESPITE his flaws. 

[IUc2016 6,925]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I agree with the Justin Smith take. All the things you described. But then, why play him? Sure he plays good defense when and only when he’s locked in. Offensively, he’s almost useless. He does try to offensive rebound more than others.

It’s an enigma to me why he starts and plays so many minutes. I think that tells us how bad the roster really is in terms of talent.




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Again, my biggest gripe with Archie. Doesn't make sense to me. 

[IUc2016 6,925]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

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love that site. Thanks for sharing

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,188]

love that site. Thanks for sharing

His turnover percentage in conference play is a little worse while his usage has went down just a little.


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