Negativity Thread

[lillurk 3,666]

9 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

Frankly, I think an average high major new coach should get IU to the tournament in year 1 or 2 (unless they inherit a post-Sampson mess). Maybe the climb to the level of success and consistency has some ups and downs but programs change quickly in basketball.

[lillurk 3,666]

You can complain about administrative support all you want but the budget is there and the cupboard wasn’t bare (and at this point the cupboard is definitely the new coach’s responsibility).

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

Yes, that wouldn’t be a barrier or even an issue. Any coach we would go after would look at 0-3 in making the tourney at IU and think it’s only up from here.

 

There are very few coaches that would see that as acceptable to go 0-3.

 

 

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[Chris007 42,024]

19 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 

We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

I've been saying this forever. No coach who is successful at a Power 5 conference making a couple of million dollars is going to want to uproot his family, leave that money to come to IU knowing he has 3 years to make the tourney or be fired. He could stay at his school for the next 20 years and be fine. I just think as fans we look at Indiana differently than what other people do. 

[coonhounds 8,690]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 
We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

I think firing a coach after year three is to early but archie has pretty much given every reason besides off court issues to be fired. He also beat msu a few times but that is all

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

Our starters stats in our 4 game losing streak:

TJD: 12.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 2 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 50% FG, 84.2% FT, 29.3 minutes.

Smith: 8.8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.8 turnovers, 50% FG, 50% 3FG, 100% FT, 29.3 minutes

Rob: 6.5 points, 1.8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.8 turnovers, 43.5% FG, 62.5% 3FG, 33.3% FT, 26.3 minutes

Brunk: 6 points, 3.5 rebounds, 1 turnover, 55% FG, 50% FT, 20.3 minutes

Durham: 5.5 points, 1.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.5 turnovers, 36.8% FG, 30% 3FG, 83.3% FT, 25.3 minutes




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[Chris007 42,024]

9 minutes ago, lillurk said:

You can complain about administrative support all you want but the budget is there and the cupboard wasn’t bare (and at this point the cupboard is definitely the new coach’s responsibility).

I disagree with this. There wasn't anything in that cupboard I would have wanted as a coach. But to each their own. 

[bigrod 2,784]

Just now, Chris007 said:

I disagree with this. There wasn't anything in that cupboard I would have wanted as a coach. But to each their own. 

Yeah, there's always been a very small part of me that wanted Crean to have to stick around one more year to deal with that mess he left.

[IUc2016 6,915]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Our starters stats in our 4 game losing streak:

TJD: 12.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 2 blocks, 1.8 turnovers, 50% FG, 84.2% FT, 29.3 minutes.

Smith: 8.8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.8 turnovers, 50% FG, 50% 3FG, 100% FT, 29.3 minutes

Rob: 6.5 points, 1.8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.8 turnovers, 43.5% FG, 62.5% 3FG, 33.3% FT, 26.3 minutes

Brunk: 6 points, 3.5 rebounds, 1 turnover, 55% FG, 50% FT, 20.3 minutes

Durham: 5.5 points, 1.3 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.5 turnovers, 36.8% FG, 30% 3FG, 83.3% FT, 25.3 minutes




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Starting guards cannot combine for 12 points/game. The Rutgers and Penn State games this year was some of the worst guard play I have ever seen. 

[coonhounds 8,690]

I've been saying this forever. No coach who is successful at a Power 5 conference making a couple of million dollars is going to want to uproot his family, leave that money to come to IU knowing he has 3 years to make the tourney or be fired. He could stay at his school for the next 20 years and be fine. I just think as fans we look at Indiana differently than what other people do. 

Well if everyone else looks at us as losers and undeserving of a coach who can make NCAA tournaments or beat purdue sometimes then that is a problem. This is a school that had 5 national championships. This is not a normal college basketball job that is why you get paid big money. Yes you also have lots of fans who have passion that comes with it. If that isn't the case then take a job at some school who accepts losing but I don't want that to be iu. Who the heck wants to keep losing?

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[Chris007 42,024]

Just now, bigrod said:

Yeah, there's always been a very small part of me that wanted Crean to have to stick around one more year to deal with that mess he left.

Exactly let him and his wife go around town, university and everywhere else answering questions about where the program was. 

[8bucks 6,116]

I know this is a venting thread, and trust me, I'm just as frustrated as everyone else regarding level of play, lack of progress, etc.  But if Archie is run off after 3 years (which I highly doubt will happen), what "homerun" hire would realistically want to come here??  Even if he's let go after year four, the message to a new prospective coach is you have 3-4 years to figure it out, then we're hitting the reset button. 
We're on our 4th coach (technically 5th if you count Dakich) since Knight (2000).   Going off of past experience, it seems to me we'd end up settling on option 2, 3, or 4 again after hitting the reset button and back in the same rut.  Do we really believe a Stevens, Beard, Few, Bennett, Pearl, etc would come here after that precedent?

I think this is a fair question to ask so let’s look at the details.

Mike Davis - 6 years. Team improved early in tenure and got us to championship game. Wheels fell off in later years and could not sustain with his own recruits.

Kelvin Sampson - 2 years. He really started to build a competitive team quickly but he came in under probation and quickly violated those restrictions.

Dakich - was only an interim coach.

Tom Crean - 9 years. We were very patient with him but his teams were inconsistent from year to year. Too many down years after the rebuild to justify keeping him when his peak seemed to be a sweet 16.

Archie Miller - 3 years. Still early but so far we have not seen much improvement from year 1 to now.

Considering this, you could argue that IU is generally very patient. You could argue that Kelvin Sampson, who was a dumb cheater, shows that IU can be turned around quickly.

So you certainly have to control the narrative but I think it is pretty easy to show we are a patient group.


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[Chris007 42,024]

Just now, coonhounds said:

Well if everyone else looks at us as losers and undeserving of a coach who can make NCAA tournaments or beat purdue sometimes then that is a problem. This is a school that had 5 national championships. This is not a normal college basketball job that is why you get paid big money. Yes you also have lots of fans who have passion that comes with it. If that isn't the case then take a job at some school who accepts losing but I don't want that to be iu. Who the heck wants to keep losing?

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I agree with much of what you say but we haven't been relevant in over 25 years. We might have a good year here and there but were just another program. Do you think people still hold UCLA to the degree they did when they had Wooden? They had to hire Alford, then Cronin. No one wanted that job either. 

[bigrod 2,784]

Just now, IUc2016 said:

Starting guards cannot combine for 12 points/game. The Rutgers and Penn State games this year was some of the worst guard play I have ever seen. 

I commented earlier this year that Hunter wanted to come to IU but we didn't offer him. I was told he wasn't any good. But, he almost outscored all of our guards combined.

[lillurk 3,666]

5 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

I think this is a fair question to ask so let’s look at the details.

Mike Davis - 6 years. Team improved early in tenure and got us to championship game. Wheels fell off in later years and could not sustain with his own recruits.

Kelvin Sampson - 2 years. He really started to build a competitive team quickly but he came in under probation and quickly violated those restrictions.

Dakich - was only an interim coach.

Tom Crean - 9 years. We were very patient with him but his teams were inconsistent from year to year. Too many down years after the rebuild to justify keeping him when his peak seemed to be a sweet 16.

Archie Miller - 3 years. Still early but so far we have not seen much improvement from year 1 to now.

Considering this, you could argue that IU is generally very patient. You could argue that Kelvin Sampson, who was a dumb cheater, shows that IU can be turned around quickly.

So you certainly have to control the narrative but I think it is pretty easy to show we are a patient group.


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Yep, was hoping someone would do this. 

[IUc2016 6,915]

2 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I commented earlier this year that Hunter wanted to come to IU but we didn't offer him. I was told he wasn't any good. But, he almost outscored all of our guards combined.

It has been said that Rob will need surgery after this year and so I give him somewhat of a pass. He is still shooting really well from 3 but he has no ability to break a defender down and get to the rim. I think next year and his senior year he will be fine and a good point guard in the Big Ten. 

However, since Rob isn't dynamic and won't put up 15/game it puts more pressure on the other guard to be a scorer. And that just isn't possible right now. Al durham will never be that. Next year and the year after depends on this team finding a consistent scorer at the off guard spot. 

Maybe it will be Franklin. Hopefully. 

[lillurk 3,666]

4 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I commented earlier this year that Hunter wanted to come to IU but we didn't offer him. I was told he wasn't any good. But, he almost outscored all of our guards combined.

Could we have had him instead of Jake Forrester? Could we have had McKinley Wright instead of Clifton Moore if Arch had sort of soft-played re-recruiting him?

[Josh 12,360]

43 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I've been saying this forever. No coach who is successful at a Power 5 conference making a couple of million dollars is going to want to uproot his family, leave that money to come to IU knowing he has 3 years to make the tourney or be fired. He could stay at his school for the next 20 years and be fine. I just think as fans we look at Indiana differently than what other people do. 

Disagree.  But you're entitled to this negative thinking in this thread I guess lol

[coonhounds 8,690]

I agree with much of what you say but we haven't been relevant in over 25 years. We might have a good year here and there but were just another program. Do you think people still hold UCLA to the degree they did when they had Wooden? They had to hire Alford, then Cronin. No one wanted that job either. 

UCLA is still a big time job though. They didn't hire Alford to lose and had big time recruits it just didn't work. UCLA I agree is down but they are not your normal ncaa program imo. Name another 3 plus championship team who just accepts mediocrity and is ok with staying there. When glass went to hire a new coach he said all the right things and at the time I felt hired a good coach. It just hasn't panned out but we still got 5 star recruits we just suck. I think it is coaching but who knows

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[coonhounds 8,690]

It needs to be pointed out that people on here think iu fans have unrealistic expectations and are not patient. This season and the last 2 are not even close to where we need to be. We fired crean cause big ten championship and sweet 16 every few years was not enough. This is by far taking a step back from that it would appear. Also not even being competitive in alot of games is highly alarming. Creans first few years we stunk but they fought hard we are seeing none of that from more talented kids. The other major problem is the basketball is boring. We can't shoot or make free throws and still turn the ball over way too much. Defense is at time non existent. I don't understand why but it is the reality

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