Secret Scrimmage Information

[lillurk 3,668]

I am glad IU landed Joey Brunk, and given De’Ron Davis’s injury history, they needed a solid alternative at the 5. I assumed Davis would start this year, health permitting, and even assumed Brunk starting yesterday was, as @Stuhoo said about other guys, part of working in new guys/getting an extended look. But @Chris007’s comment has me concerned that Brunk is going to start over Davis even though everything in their respective careers indicates Davis gives you more.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

56 minutes ago, lillurk said:

I am glad IU landed Joey Brunk, and given De’Ron Davis’s injury history, they needed a solid alternative at the 5. I assumed Davis would start this year, health permitting, and even assumed Brunk starting yesterday was, as @Stuhoo said about other guys, part of working in new guys/getting an extended look. But @Chris007’s comment has me concerned that Brunk is going to start over Davis even though everything in their respective careers indicates Davis gives you more.

IDK about everything. Looking at this most recent box score Brunk provides quite a bit. 
 

important to note. Brunk was playing in a system he wasn’t recruited for and now is. While Davis is now playing in a system he wasn’t recruited for. 

[lillurk 3,668]

7 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

IDK about everything. Looking at this most recent box score Brunk provides quite a bit. 
 

important to note. Brunk was playing in a system he wasn’t recruited for and now is. While Davis is now playing in a system he wasn’t recruited for. 

Sure, I won’t rule out Brunk having a better year; players improve and fit differently. But they’ve both been good offensively and only Davis has been good defensively.

I was concerned Davis wouldn’t be quick enough to handle the pick and roll defensive responsibility asked of him in the pack line but the numbers and the eye test have surprised me. Brunk seems more fleet of foot and this all could change.

[Stuhoo 75,561]

48 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Sure, I won’t rule out Brunk having a better year; players improve and fit differently. But they’ve both been good offensively and only Davis has been good defensively.

I was concerned Davis wouldn’t be quick enough to handle the pick and roll defensive responsibility asked of him in the pack line but the numbers and the eye test have surprised me. Brunk seems more fleet of foot and this all could change.

Davis has been good defensively?!?

[lillurk 3,668]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Davis has been good defensively?!?

Last year, and compared to Brunk? Yep. And actually, IU has been better defensively with him on the court than off his entire career, which surprised me, per comparing his defensive points per possession on court vs. IU’s as a team each of those three years.

He’s not Draymond Green or whatever, but he’s a plus on that side.

(A hot take I haven’t shared here is I think IU will spend some time in lineups with TJD at the 5, Phinisee and Green at the guards, and some combo of Durham, Hunter, Thompson, and Smith at the 3/4 and some version of it might be its best lineup on both ends, but maybe that’s a different can of worms.)

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

8 minutes ago, lillurk said:

Last year, and compared to Brunk? Yep. And actually, IU has been better defensively with him on the court than off his entire career, which surprised me, per comparing his defensive points per possession on court vs. IU’s as a team each of those three years.

He’s not Draymond Green or whatever, but he’s a plus on that side.

(A hot take I haven’t shared here is I think IU will spend some time in lineups with TJD at the 5, Phinisee and Green at the guards, and some combo of Durham, Hunter, Thompson, and Smith at the 3/4 and some version of it might be its best lineup on both ends, but maybe that’s a different can of worms.)

You have literally never seen Bunk in the pack line?  So how can you make a statement on defense 

[lillurk 3,668]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

You have literally never seen Bunk in the pack line?  So how can you make a statement on defense 

Well fair, although I said things could be different this year. Bruno’s foot speed and height could make him a good defender, but I’m saying that was demonstrably not true at Butler.

Butler plays man; pack line is a variant thereof but it’s about principles. It’s possible he’ll be better this year but we have two years of evidence he’s not great on D

This was my point all along, not that I know Davis will be better than Brunk this year, but that he has been every year so far.

[BGleas 7,880]

11 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Forwards play on the wing. Smith plays on the wing. That is what best fits him. Why? Because you can’t be Karl Malone and be considered a slasher. And remember, Malone was a forward. What’s so hard to understand about the role of a slasher? Was Shaq a slasher just because he caught some passes down low and dunked it? When did Shaq ever start at the 3 point line and backcut for a jam? Malone? Duncan? Ewing? Never. Does Justin Smith fit into the same role and category of player as any of them? Or does he fit into a role like Mo Harkless, Andre Roberson or evening Luc Mbah a Moute? All 3 are wing players on offense.


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Why are we talking about centers and forwards from 20-30 years ago? The game has evolved, it's a completely different game. 

Standing on the perimeter doesn't make you a wing in terms of your position. In basketball in 2019 you have guards, wings, and forwards, maybe a center too depending on your personnel. Last year IU didn't really have a center, this year we do with Brunk and Davis. 

Wings and guards are pretty interchangeable once you get into the halfcourt. The wings and the guards are the ones coming off ball screens, handling the ball, making decisions and creating offense. Answer this simple question. Do you want Justin Smith in that role?

The forwards are the ones reversing the ball (wow yes, on the perimeter) after an action and then following it to set the ball screens. The forwards then either slash to the basket or flare, etc. This is the role Justin Smith should be in and has been in his entire career. 

The simple act of standing behind the 3pt line does not make you a wing or a '3'. 

[NRT137 316]

Does anyone have the secret scrimmage stats from last year vs Loyola?


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[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Could Davis be the better option at the 5 based on individual comparisons but be more effective coming off the bench?

If Jackson-Davis is starting at the 4 and can defend the opposing 4 while having a mismatch on offense we might see more TJD-Brunk starting at the 4-5.

Davis was a load to handle last season at the 5 and could be that much more against backup 5s. I guess this depends on a lot with how well Brunk can defend opposing 5s, Jackson-Davis defending opposing 4s, and them working together on offense.

There is some versatility with those three, a healthy Hunter, and a focused Smith.


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[IUaic 90]

12 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Forwards play on the wing. Smith plays on the wing. That is what best fits him. Why? Because you can’t be Karl Malone and be considered a slasher. And remember, Malone was a forward. What’s so hard to understand about the role of a slasher? Was Shaq a slasher just because he caught some passes down low and dunked it? When did Shaq ever start at the 3 point line and backcut for a jam? Malone? Duncan? Ewing? Never. Does Justin Smith fit into the same role and category of player as any of them? Or does he fit into a role like Mo Harkless, Andre Roberson or evening Luc Mbah a Moute? All 3 are wing players on offense.


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You're losing this argument, and the more you talk, the more you lose. Sometimes it is best to just walk away.

[Brass Cannon 24,064]

While Brunk had his struggles in straight man to man I feel like the packline will help him.  He doesn’t have to follow his guy wherever he just has to protect his area. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,575]

10 hours ago, IUaic said:

You're losing this argument, and the more you talk, the more you lose. Sometimes it is best to just walk away.

Don't you want to discuss whether Justin Smith is more like Karl Malone or Luc Mbah a Moute? :)

Anyway, Justin Smith is a poor man's Troy Williams.  Problem is that a poor man's Troy Williams is a guy who slashes to the rim but missed.

[lillurk 3,668]

11 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Could Davis be the better option at the 5 based on individual comparisons but be more effective coming off the bench?

If Jackson-Davis is starting at the 4 and can defend the opposing 4 while having a mismatch on offense we might see more TJD-Brunk starting at the 4-5.

Davis was a load to handle last season at the 5 and could be that much more against backup 5s. I guess this depends on a lot with how well Brunk can defend opposing 5s, Jackson-Davis defending opposing 4s, and them working together on offense.

There is some versatility with those three, a healthy Hunter, and a focused Smith.


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I do like this idea, of Davis anchoring the bench office and bullying backups.