Fire or ‘Way to Go!’ Tom Allen?

[jk34 1,105]

I don't know if he is the right coach or not, but damn let's just give him a couple more years to coach Penix and the young group of talented players he recruited. Got a talented play caller on offense,  maybe get a guy on defense that can get a inexperienced group to be competitive.I'm giving Allen a chance to coach some of the best talent IU football has ever fielded. What do we have to lose! 

Plus, I believe Penix will be our best recruiter the next couple of years. IT factor is huge !

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Can we stop with the B1G East bit since we can't even beat B1G West teams?  We suck against B1G teams, period.
We had a chance against MSU, but it's a real stretch to say we had them beat since we only had a small lead with nearly a full quarter to go.

No, because playing MSU OSU UM and PSU as part of our yearly schedule is a massive barrier.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

That literally isn't even true. I don't think you even believe Allen is a good coach, but you're dug into your narrative because you don't want to admit your buddy Fred Glass made a bad hire.

What isn't true?   Do you have any idea what you're talking about or is all you have "fire ______!"?    I'm starting to believe you've never set foot in a locker room and don't know what you're watching....or you're so buried in "fire _____," you can't be objective.   Speaking of narratives....

And it's not a narrative on my end.  It's simple reality you refuse to accept because of your.....um....narrative.    It's a hell of a lot more reasonable than "fire _____" with absolutely zero reasonable rationale for doing so.   I'm not all in on Allen, but I'm also not convinced it was a bad hire.   How many times do you need to be asked the question "who can we go get?" before you'll answer it?   If I'm dug into a narrative, that should be a pretty easy question to answer.   You'd be great at dodgeball.   And for the last time....Glass isn't my buddy.   I just think it's idiotic to say "Fire ______" because you don't care for one small part of his job you don't think he did well.

The state of IU athletics and IU football is far better than you think, and I've never seen anyone so "all in" on failure so he can be "right" in his own mind with a bunch of people he doesn't know.   

[JSHoosier 19,550]

1 hour ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

No, because playing MSU OSU UM and PSU as part of our yearly schedule is a massive barrier.


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Our record sucks against the Big Ten West too, so I don't buy for a second it'd make much (if any) difference.  Our barrier is Big Ten in general.

No denying the East is the tougher of the two, but we seldom beat teams in the weaker division.  Maybe we should actually beat West teams before complaining about being in the East, radical thought I know.

[HoosierAloha 29,886]

I get that we haven’t beaten many west teams but with more opportunities I believe we have a better record no..?


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,879]

8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

What isn't true?   Do you have any idea what you're talking about or is all you have "fire ______!"?    I'm starting to believe you've never set foot in a locker room and don't know what you're watching....or you're so buried in "fire _____," you can't be objective.   Speaking of narratives....

And it's not a narrative on my end.  It's simple reality you refuse to accept because of your.....um....narrative.    It's a hell of a lot more reasonable than "fire _____" with absolutely zero reasonable rationale for doing so.   I'm not all in on Allen, but I'm also not convinced it was a bad hire.   How many times do you need to be asked the question "who can we go get?" before you'll answer it?   If I'm dug into a narrative, that should be a pretty easy question to answer.   You'd be great at dodgeball.   And for the last time....Glass isn't my buddy.   I just think it's idiotic to say "Fire ______" because you don't care for one small part of his job you don't think he did well.

The state of IU athletics and IU football is far better than you think, and I've never seen anyone so "all in" on failure so he can be "right" in his own mind with a bunch of people he doesn't know.   

Someone earlier in the thread posted a long list of candidates. You've said multiple times now that basketball drives things at IU. IU basketball has missed the tournament in 7 of 11 years. Yet you also say "the state of IU athletics is far better than you think".

IU basketball is IU athletics, and we've sucked for over a decade. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I get that we haven’t beaten many west teams but with more opportunities I believe we have a better record no..?


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Thank you - what is our record against the west? We get maybe two games a year against B1G West teams.

I’m not going to go do the research since a quick Google search didn’t provide answers, but I’d like to see our record against B1G West before we say we can’t beat those teams.


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[Hovadipo 52,891]

7 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Our record sucks against the Big Ten West too, so I don't buy for a second it'd make much (if any) difference.  Our barrier is Big Ten in general.

No denying the East is the tougher of the two, but we seldom beat teams in the weaker division.  Maybe we should actually beat West teams before complaining about being in the East, radical thought I know.

We have an all-time .164 winning % against schools in the East. I think that’s worthy of complaining about. I’d much rather Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska be the teams we’re shooting for rather than Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State and Michigan. If you disagree, I don’t really know what to tell you because the difference is obvious. If it isn’t, we’ve won 33 games EVER (winning % of 14) against the top 4 teams in the East. You wouldn’t rather have more than 3 shots per year against the West as opposed to what we currently face? Ok. 

[Hovadipo 52,891]

1 minute ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Thank you - what is our record against the west? We get maybe two games a year against B1G West teams.

I’m not going to go do the research since a quick Google search didn’t provide answers, but I’d like to see our record against B1G West before we say we can’t beat those teams.


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All-time .381 winning % vs. West teams as opposed to .164 against the East. 

[LamarCheeks 16,805]

There is some good news on the Tom Allen/IU football front: There's no way we lose today! 

[RaceToTheTop 23,547]

11 hours ago, MoyeNeeded said:

You don't win games against ranked teams with talented Fr and Soph when those ranked teams are fielding talented upper classmen. 

The cupboard wasn’t bare when Wilson left.  I’m not advocating for an abusive coach being around, just that Allen is winning less with more talent.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

All-time .381 winning % vs. West teams as opposed to .164 against the East. 

That was quick. Thank you!

Historically, we were more than 2x more likely to win against the West than the East. I’ll take those odds, Cotton.


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[RaceToTheTop 23,547]

18 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

We have an all-time .164 winning % against schools in the East. I think that’s worthy of complaining about. I’d much rather Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska be the teams we’re shooting for rather than Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State and Michigan. If you disagree, I don’t really know what to tell you because the difference is obvious. If it isn’t, we’ve won 33 games EVER (winning % of 14) against the top 4 teams in the East. You wouldn’t rather have more than 3 shots per year against the West as opposed to what we currently face? Ok. 

I agree the way the Big Ten is split is incredibly uneven.  But year after year we schedule three non conference games that  we should win.  I don’t think that expecting to win 3 out of 8 conference games is asking too much.

[Hovadipo 52,891]

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

I agree the way the Big Ten is split is incredibly uneven.  But year after year we schedule three non conference games that  we should win.  I don’t think that expecting to win 3 out of 8 conference games is asking too much.

I don’t disagree at all, just saying I really believe winning at least 3 would be more realistic if the B1G was either undivided or divided in a different way (in hindsight, Leaders and Legends was split very evenly, but I get that power shifts happen) and we played a better mix of East and West teams, based on historical data. If it stays divided how it is (and I don’t think it will, FWIW) we have very little margin for error and in an already tough conference like the B1G, that’s not ideal for a perennial bottom dweller trying to move up. 

[LamarCheeks 16,805]

Not that we have any success against B1G teams in general, but the previous conference split was much more equitable (though I hated the Legends and Leaders titles). This was pre-Maryland and Rutgers. Since we went to East and West, the East is 5-0 in B1G title games. 

Legends: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern
Leaders: Illinois, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin 

 

 

[HoosierAloha 29,886]

South: Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Nebraska

North: Rutgers, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota


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[Alford Bailey 12,239]

10 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

Our record sucks against the Big Ten West too, so I don't buy for a second it'd make much (if any) difference.  Our barrier is Big Ten in general.

No denying the East is the tougher of the two, but we seldom beat teams in the weaker division.  Maybe we should actually beat West teams before complaining about being in the East, radical thought I know.

Exactly what ive been saying for a while.We would suck in the west as well.

[Alford Bailey 12,239]

3 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

We have an all-time .164 winning % against schools in the East. I think that’s worthy of complaining about. I’d much rather Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska be the teams we’re shooting for rather than Ohio State, Michigan State, Penn State and Michigan. If you disagree, I don’t really know what to tell you because the difference is obvious. If it isn’t, we’ve won 33 games EVER (winning % of 14) against the top 4 teams in the East. You wouldn’t rather have more than 3 shots per year against the West as opposed to what we currently face? Ok. 

Michigan and Penn St. arent the programs they once were. I wouldnt expect to beat Ohio St. Michigan, Penn St and Michigan St are beatable if we up our game.

[Hoosierfan2017 19,879]

Historically we are better against those teams, but recently we haven't been. Last year we were 0-3 against the West, and the year before that we were 1-2. The East has Rutgers (almost an automatic win) and Maryland (a very winnable game) in it. But, those teams just joined the Big 10 a few years ago, so we've hardly ever played those two schools. That skews the winning percentage quite a bit because it's basically just our winning percentage against Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,879]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Historically we are better against those teams, but recently we haven't been. Last year we were 0-3 against the West, and the year before that we were 1-2. The East has Rutgers (almost an automatic win) and Maryland (a very winnable game) in it. But, those teams just joined the Big 10 a few years ago, so we've hardly ever played those two schools. That skews the winning percentage quite a bit because it's basically just our winning percentage against Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Michigan State. 

To elaborate on this, we are 6-4 against Maryland and Rutgers since they joined the Big 10. If we had played them as often as the other four teams, our all-time record against the East would likely be more similar to our record against the West.