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Dating back to the losing streak and even before, Indiana has had very little good news.

 

-Miss DJ Carton as our primary guard target to OSU

-Miss NCAA, 3 straight years

-Keion Brooks picks Kentucky

-Anthony Harris picks UNC

-Lester Quinones picks Memphis

-2 unused scholarships sail into a make or break year for the coach and program.

-2020 recruiting targets mostly unheralded. And even at that, no commits yet (still way early, I get that)

-Coach Schilling resigns/fired/let go abruptly. Timing highly questionable.

-projected 10th in conference. Yes in conference.

-2021 recruiting target(s) looking to see if Indiana can have on court success.

 

Good news-

 

Brunk-good attitude, big kid. Wasn’t very successful at Butler, fair to wonder if he will have success at Indiana.

 

TJD-Love everything about him. To me, the lone shining bright spot. Tried hard to recruit help unsuccessfully.

 

Franklin-appears to be underrated, also unheralded. Doubt he’s better than Newman. Great attitude. Going to have to prove himself.

 

Any other good news?

 

I really thought Archie was going to do big things at Indiana, and I still hope he will. The state of the program after signing Romeo was sky high. The state of the program has been in free fall since. IMO, we really need something splashy to regain momentum. I don’t know what that is, it appears we just need to win basketball games. I am not confident that will happen.

 

PS- I’m sure I’m missing stuff on my timeline. All this is straight from memory.

 

 

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Attack dogs in 3, 2, 1


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Truth. I don’t care, though. I posted what I know to be a timeline of events from memory.

I know any “realistic/pessimistic” take gets bombarded as “cliff jumping” or some other token phrase.

I call em like I see em.

FWIW, I’m not “cliff jumping”, but we are against the odds. I hate that recruiting is impacted already. Archie needs to be able to sell his vision despite the results.


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Dating back to the losing streak and even before, Indiana has had very little good news.
 
-Miss DJ Carton as our primary guard target to OSU
-Miss NCAA, 3 straight years
-Keion Brooks picks Kentucky
-Anthony Harris picks UNC
-Lester Quinones picks Memphis
-2 unused scholarships sail into a make or break year for the coach and program.
-2020 recruiting targets mostly unheralded. And even at that, no commits yet (still way early, I get that)
-Coach Schilling resigns/fired/let go abruptly. Timing highly questionable.
-projected 10th in conference. Yes in conference.
-2021 recruiting target(s) looking to see if Indiana can have on court success.
 
Good news-
 
Brunk-good attitude, big kid. Wasn’t very successful at Butler, fair to wonder if he will have success at Indiana.
 
TJD-Love everything about him. To me, the lone shining bright spot. Tried hard to recruit help unsuccessfully.
 
Franklin-appears to be underrated, also unheralded. Doubt he’s better than Newman. Great attitude. Going to have to prove himself.
 
Any other good news?
 
I really thought Archie was going to do big things at Indiana, and I still hope he will. The state of the program after signing Romeo was sky high. The state of the program has been in free fall since. IMO, we really need something splashy to regain momentum. I don’t know what that is, it appears we just need to win basketball games. I am not confident that will happen.
 
PS- I’m sure I’m missing stuff on my timeline. All this is straight from memory.
 
 
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This is exactly how I feel we're going to have to win on the court this year plain and simple. if we have another off year the program is in serious trouble. Recruiting has already stalled. It's been going on like 275 days since we've had a high school kid commit.

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4 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:


Truth. I don’t care, though. I posted what I know to be a timeline of events from memory.

I know any “realistic/pessimistic” take gets bombarded as “cliff jumping” or some other token phrase.

I call em like I see em.

FWIW, I’m not “cliff jumping”, but we are against the odds. I hate that recruiting is impacted already. Archie needs to be able to sell his vision despite the results.


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As recruits and parents read the boards, what purpose does the negativity serve? If you’ve given up on the coaching staff, then I get it. Fans can create a toxic environment around programs that can take a decade to dig out of. Look at Michigan football posts Lloyd Carr. Fans/boosters/alumns didn’t give Rich Rod a chance to succeed. They cut his legs out from the get go and they sucked through Brady Hoke until Harbaugh arrived.

Also, one persons realistic take isn’t the same as another’s  

For IU basketball I said 2 seasons ago that it would be a 3 year process for any coach. Archie wasn’t my first, second, or third choice, but he was on everyone’s list. I’ll give him the same fair shake as i would have any new coach. 3 years to make the dance and if not, that seat will be red hot in year 4. 

The problem I have with my own reasoning is he is building for long term success with 3-4 year players. That does take time. It took Bennett 5 years at UVA. Archie himself said he wouldn’t fill all scholarships every year when he first arrived to campus. He also said it would take 3 years for his defense to get to its peak. Offensively we miss too many open looks, but we get open looks. So yes year 3 is important, and I along with other actually think IU will be better next year than the last 2 years. We have a NCAA tournament roster and should be there. Hopefully that will make the restless happy. 

I know people will chime in with look at Chris Beard. I get it, he went the transfer route and it paid off. He is an exceptional coach who will be the next head coach of probably the San Antonio Spurs. So he has a short shelf life as a college coach. 

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As recruits and parents read the boards, what purpose does the negativity serve? If you’ve given up on the coaching staff, then I get it. Fans can create a toxic environment around programs that can take a decade to dig out of. Look at Michigan football posts Lloyd Carr. Fans/boosters/alumns didn’t give Rich Rod a chance to succeed. They cut his legs out from the get go and they sucked through Brady Hoke until Harbaugh arrived.
Also, one persons realistic take isn’t the same as another’s  
For IU basketball I said 2 seasons ago that it would be a 3 year process for any coach. Archie wasn’t my first, second, or third choice, but he was on everyone’s list. I’ll give him the same fair shake as i would have any new coach. 3 years to make the dance and if not, that seat will be red hot in year 4. 
The problem I have with my own reasoning is he is building for long term success with 3-4 year players. That does take time. It took Bennett 5 years at UVA. Archie himself said he wouldn’t fill all scholarships every year when he first arrived to campus. He also said it would take 3 years for his defense to get to its peak. Offensively we miss too many open looks, but we get open looks. So yes year 3 is important, and I along with other actually think IU will be better next year than the last 2 years. We have a NCAA tournament roster and should be there. Hopefully that will make the restless happy. 
I know people will chime in with look at Chris Beard. I get it, he went the transfer route and it paid off. He is an exceptional coach who will be the next head coach of probably the San Antonio Spurs. So he has a short shelf life as a college coach. 

This is a good answer.

As for recruit families, these boards shouldn’t impact them. The recruits and their families know the program and the staff on a much deeper level. They are developing relationships and talking about plans and such. This message board stuff is just fan talk and all the real players know fans are fanatic and often act accordingly.

I don’t believe these type of posts on this message board has an impact on recruits or families. I DO believe fans calling out players directly on TWITTER does have an impact on perception. Something I will never do, no matter how disappointed i am in IUBB. I will step away from the hobby if I ever felt inclined to do that.




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As far as why post it? I guess the simple answer is I want IUBB to be great. I thought/think Archie would do it. I’m worried if he doesn’t, where we would even go.

I don’t want Archie fired or on the hot seat, I want him to succeed on and off the court.

Ultimately, I’m ready for good news and positive momentum.


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As recruits and parents read the boards, what purpose does the negativity serve? If you’ve given up on the coaching staff, then I get it. Fans can create a toxic environment around programs that can take a decade to dig out of. Look at Michigan football posts Lloyd Carr. Fans/boosters/alumns didn’t give Rich Rod a chance to succeed. They cut his legs out from the get go and they sucked through Brady Hoke until Harbaugh arrived.
Also, one persons realistic take isn’t the same as another’s  
For IU basketball I said 2 seasons ago that it would be a 3 year process for any coach. Archie wasn’t my first, second, or third choice, but he was on everyone’s list. I’ll give him the same fair shake as i would have any new coach. 3 years to make the dance and if not, that seat will be red hot in year 4. 
The problem I have with my own reasoning is he is building for long term success with 3-4 year players. That does take time. It took Bennett 5 years at UVA. Archie himself said he wouldn’t fill all scholarships every year when he first arrived to campus. He also said it would take 3 years for his defense to get to its peak. Offensively we miss too many open looks, but we get open looks. So yes year 3 is important, and I along with other actually think IU will be better next year than the last 2 years. We have a NCAA tournament roster and should be there. Hopefully that will make the restless happy. 
I know people will chime in with look at Chris Beard. I get it, he went the transfer route and it paid off. He is an exceptional coach who will be the next head coach of probably the San Antonio Spurs. So he has a short shelf life as a college coach. 
We are allowed to voice our opinions as fans. Parents and players must be mentally tough and have thick skin to be successful. Don't like criticism? Then do better. Personal attacks are not ok but personally I've been a fan for 32 years. I feel I've earned the right to air my grievances with the team.

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“Stalled Recruiting” seems to be an oft cited problem. Sincere question here: What does “Recruiting Momentum” look like this year? If Galloway and Leal commit soon are we no longer stalled or do we continue to be stalled because they aren’t 5* recruits or they don’t come from a “Heralded Class”? Or will it take a Duke ‘18 class to be rein”stalled”?


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Wayne, your original post was laid out well and made a compelling case for us to hate our program. It was mostly based on facts. I will say, however, that when you made the comment about Franklin that you doubt he’s better than Newman, that’s just being negative and discredited the rest of the post in my eyes, not that that should matter to you. Is that comment based on anything empirical or because you watched them both play in person? If so, I take it back, but it smacks of Negative Nellyism at face value.


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4 minutes ago, RatpigHoosier said:

Wayne, your original post was laid out well and made a compelling case for us to hate our program. It was mostly based on facts. I will say, however, that when you made the comment about Franklin that you doubt he’s better than Newman, that’s just being negative and discredited the rest of the post in my eyes, not that that should matter to you. Is that comment based on anything empirical or because you watched them both play in person? If so, I take it back, but it smacks of Negative Nellyism at face value.


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You think he’s being a negative Nelly to say Newman is better than Franklin?  Several scouting services see it that way. 

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My point is that when they were being recruited they were considered neck and neck. We offered both and pretty much said whoever accepts first gets the spot. It’s not like Newman was head and shoulders above Franklin coming out of HS.
It’s more a symptom of the disease, IMHO. In some folks minds because Franklin chose IU and Newman didn’t, he must not be the better player. That statement in the original post doesn’t seem to be based upon anything other than negativism. Just how I perceive it.


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12 minutes ago, RatpigHoosier said:

My point is that when they were being recruited they were considered neck and neck. We offered both and pretty much said whoever accepts first gets the spot. It’s not like Newman was head and shoulders above Franklin coming out of HS.
It’s more a symptom of the disease, IMHO. In some folks minds because Franklin chose IU and Newman didn’t, he must not be the better player. That statement in the original post doesn’t seem to be based upon anything other than negativism. Just how I perceive it.


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You think he’s a negative nelly because some people on this board considered it neck and neck. Seems a bias way to look at it

In regards I think Franklin is better overall but we needed Newman’s skills more 

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