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I wasn’t speaking in terms of how some people on this board perceived them, I was speaking in terms of how the coaching staff seems to have perceive them based on how they were recruited.


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Just now, RatpigHoosier said:

I wasn’t speaking in terms of how some people on this board perceived them, I was speaking in terms of how the coaching staff seems to have perceive them based on how they were recruited.


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That’s fine. But disagreeing about the coaching staffs assessment isnt being negative either. 

Otherwise everybody who raised eyebrows at Priller or Gelon was being negative.  

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That’s fine. But disagreeing about the coaching staffs assessment isnt being negative either. 
Otherwise everybody who raised eyebrows at Priller or Gelon was being negative.  

Well, they were according to several posters. They then but their tongues in the years to follow


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I've paid less attention to IU basketball news this offseason than any year I can ever remember, if that tells you anything about the state of the program.

 

I'm just not sure how to feel about Archie Miller. I know he had success at Dayton, but the people who keep saying he got them to an Elite 8 are starting to remind me of everyone who kept harping that Crean got Marquette to a Final Four. I'm not a big fan of "system" coaches who suck their first few years because they don't have the players they need to win. I know we had a lot of talent walk out the door after Crean got fired, but I'm sure there are coaches who could have gotten that team to the NIT and not been embarrassed at home by ISU and IPFW.

 

Even worse, I don't think this administration cares about returning to national prominence, and even if they do, they're likely too stupid to do it anyway.

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The administration is going to have to care because as tolerant and patient as the IU fanbase is, another bad season will finally generate some outrage and pressure. Glass won’t be able to preach patience and the rebuild excuse anymore. He’s going to have to give honest answers. It’s an abomination that he has lasted as long as he has.

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The administration is going to have to care because as tolerant and patient as the IU fanbase is, another bad season will finally generate some outrage and pressure. Glass won’t be able to preach patience and the rebuild excuse anymore. He’s going to have to give honest answers. It’s an abomination that he has lasted as long as he has.

You keep saying that. Where is any level of proof this will occur? You can’t just speak something into existence. Plus you said that every year for the last ten if that helps.

 

 

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Couldn’t disagree more that the state of the program was sky high after the Romeo signing. That was a nice sign of a functioning recruiting strategy (which is literally still working) to lock down the borders and sign the state’s top talent.

If you think that did anything to fix the roster issues, you’re fooling yourself.


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This board after a win or a commit from a recruit.
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This board 1 hour later because they haven't gotten any positive news.
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Might be true for some. Not For me. I really always try to look at the big picture. I’m not throwing in the towel. This year is huge to me.

Two train of thoughts. 3/4 of our leaders minutes leaders are still from the previous regime (Green, Davis, Smith, Durham). Archie doesn’t have his guys as leaders yet. Part of me buys this thinking but then again, in this day and age, you can recruit impact freshman and could have recruited to replace the core long ago if Archie didn’t trust the guys he had.

This is the thought that goes through my mind about this train of thought.

I’ll admit the Romeo signing and that recruiting class had me jumping on the bandwagon though. I thought that was the beginning of something special. But recruiting didn’t keep up with those results. So I (many people) went from the extreme high of the “state of the program” after the Romeo signing to an underwhelming season and then an underwhelming recruiting class (by blue blood standards). 2020 recruiting appears to be following suit. That is where the “recruiting momentum” comments are coming from. Went from #7 class, to 50ish, to ??? ( but lower than 10).


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I still think Gelon, in Crean's transition could have been okay as an upper classman.  We'll never know, but I don't think it's fair to judge what he might have been in a 5 year career parked in the corner or on the wing in a transition system.   Priller didn't fit Crean at all.  I will never understand that.

Okay, state of the program :

1)  I saw Archie learning and progressing last year.  I saw the defense improve.   I saw the team run more.  I saw better shots later in the season than early.  I saw more consistent effort.  And I saw better offensive sets and better movement.    I saw players improve (Green in particular).  Archie, unlike Crean, does not seem to be a finished product, and I don't equate his Dayton results with anything he'll do at Indiana.  I think he's a different coach and has figured out he needs different players.  He can't win at Indiana with Jake Forrester and Clifton Moore.   He could at Dayton if he had pieces to go with them, but here?  He needs a significant upgrade, and I think he had to learn that.   To me, he seems adaptable and like HE can learn as well.   It's only year 2 for his players, and this season and next will tell us a lot.  I am a "soft buy" on him right now...with optimism.  But...he will not be given 9 seasons as Crean was.  One sign to me the administration DOES care is Crean won two Big Ten titles, but had no consistency.  And he was terminated.  Consistent success is the expectation, I believe and I also believe Miller was given a period of transition that has either closed or is closing.

2)  The one person nobody talks about who I promise you has some clout is Cindy Simon-Skjodt.  There is no way she or her family want their name on a building with a mediocre product inside.  And I promise you, their ongoing funding of things is in some way tied to the on-court product or at least progress.  Fred Glass and Micheal McRobbie answer to her/the Simon's on some level.   They HAVE to care.  Michael McRobbie could not be a worse president for high level college athletics.  He sees athletics as nothing more than either a cash cow, a money drain, or school pride; which he seemingly applies equally to all sports.  IU wins in field hockey?  To him, that's just as good as a win in men's basketball; and of course, that's a fool's mindset.  But....he is who he is.  A research-oriented, east coast focused, .edu fundraiser academe who doesn't truly understand the culture of the school he runs.

3)  Recruiting will tell a lot.  I loved the Joey Brunk addition and I think he'll really help.  If Hunter can play at something close to full strength, he'll really help.  Jackson-Davis will really help.  And...I am very high on Franklin, having seen him play a few times.  In my mind, there's nothing Romeo did a year ago Franklin can't do, and I think Franklin is a more consistent shooter...and "longer."    But what's next?   Who commits for 2020?   Beyond?    Where does Indiana stand in the minds of recruits?   Can we get shooters to spread the floor?  Can we get a ball handler to back up Phinsee when Green graduates?   Bigs to replace Davis and eventually Brunk?  Who will be our scorers?  Our leaders?   

4)  I am disappointed Michael Lewis isn't on our bench.   I am disappointed Indiana hasn't spent more time developing the culture that expects to win and win big; and plays every game like we're getting other teams' best shot.

I'm in the camp that says this season will be telling, but I also think it'll be a success.   I think top 4 in the Big Ten, I think a NCAA appearance and perhaps a second weekend showing.  Much less than that is not acceptable in my opinion.   And if that isn't achieved, he gets one more season.   

I’ve noticed we agree on bigger picture and disagree on the little stuff.

 

 

My BIG question for everyone to answer:

 

Did Archie and the team demonstrate year over year improvement? If yes, why can’t improvements continue?

 

Please answer this with the assumption that NO ONE thinks either season is acceptable nor that missing the tournament is acceptable. Also assume that EVERYONE knows Archie’s first year was miserable from a on the court results perspective.

 

Discuss

 

 

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Might be true for some. Not For me. I really always try to look at the big picture. I’m not throwing in the towel. This year is huge to me.

Two train of thoughts. 3/4 of our leaders minutes leaders are still from the previous regime (Green, Davis, Smith, Durham). Archie doesn’t have his guys as leaders yet. Part of me buys this thinking but then again, in this day and age, you can recruit impact freshman and could have recruited to replace the core long ago if Archie didn’t trust the guys he had.

This is the thought that goes through my mind about this train of thought.

I’ll admit the Romeo signing and that recruiting class had me jumping on the bandwagon though. I thought that was the beginning of something special. But recruiting didn’t keep up with those results. So I (many people) went from the extreme high of the “state of the program” after the Romeo signing to an underwhelming season and then an underwhelming recruiting class (by blue blood standards). 2020 recruiting appears to be following suit. That is where the “recruiting momentum” comments are coming from. Went from #7 class, to 50ish, to ??? ( but lower than 10).


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I cannot believe you think that a recruiting class with two of the top in-state players, one of which is a McDAA and likely multi-year player, is underwhelming.

You already said it yourself that it’s too early to judge 2020 recruiting.


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I cannot believe you think that a recruiting class with two of the top in-state players, one of which is a McDAA and likely multi-year player, is underwhelming.

 

You already said it yourself that it’s too early to judge 2020 recruiting.

 

 

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We had 2 more spots and we were trying to fill at minimum, 1 of those. We failed to get someone good enough. Agree? So that 2 person class wasn’t by design. Had we got Brooks like many thought we might that class looks really good. So yes, by blue blood standards it’s an underwhelming class.

 

I love TJD. I like Franklin ok but he was supposed to DJ Carton if Archie had his way. Then we strikeout on the third guy, and maybe 4th. Yes, underwhelming.

 

2020 can’t be judged, but solely based on targets, (say we get Galloway, Leal, Cross). That’s an ok class. If Purdue or any other Big ten team had that class, no one bats an eye.

 

Maybe those guys are the type of guys that finally win. That’s what I’m hanging my hat on. But Archie is recruiting higher rates kids but just isn’t seen as a leader for any of them.

 

 

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Makes me sad to say this... This is the most un-interested I've been in IU basketball in the last 25 years. I think it's the result of a lackluster recruiting class coming in for 2019 on top of the swings and misses for Miller and the staff. That's not to say the 2019 class is going to be bad, just saying that I have major questions about this team next season, even with the offseason additions. Shooting will probably be a problem and the staff didn't do much to address it. And all of this is on the heels of ALL of the under-achieving Crean teams that I got so pumped for every season.. Am I the only one who feels this way?... Disconnected is the word I would use. I'm sure things will change once we get closer to Hoosier Hysteria, but for now, I've turned into a passive reader of the board who really doesn't have much positive to say.

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56 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

We had 2 more spots and we were trying to fill at minimum, 1 of those. We failed to get someone good enough. Agree? So that 2 person class wasn’t by design. Had we got Brooks like many thought we might that class looks really good. So yes, by blue blood standards it’s an underwhelming class.

 

I love TJD. I like Franklin ok but he was supposed to DJ Carton if Archie had his way. Then we strikeout on the third guy, and maybe 4th. Yes, underwhelming.

 

2020 can’t be judged, but solely based on targets, (say we get Galloway, Leal, Cross). That’s an ok class. If Purdue or any other Big ten team had that class, no one bats an eye.

 

Maybe those guys are the type of guys that finally win. That’s what I’m hanging my hat on. But Archie is recruiting higher rates kids but just isn’t seen as a leader for any of them.

 

 

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It was disappointing that we couldn't find anyone that wanted to fill at least one of those two spots.

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1 hour ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

I’ve noticed we agree on bigger picture and disagree on the little stuff.

 

 

My BIG question for everyone to answer:

 

Did Archie and the team demonstrate year over year improvement? If yes, why can’t improvements continue?

 

Please answer this with the assumption that NO ONE thinks either season is acceptable nor that missing the tournament is acceptable. Also assume that EVERYONE knows Archie’s first year was miserable from a on the court results perspective.

 

Discuss

 

 

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Improving from an F to a D doesn't get me excited.

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