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Everybody is against creaning yet all for doing the things that make it necessary. Seems odd. 

To me it seems that the landscape has changed since the years people were calling it Creaning. Not sure the numbers back when Crean was coach but this year the average number of transfers out of 353 teams was 2.4 per team. Doesn’t seem a coach really needs to push anyone out the numbers say that more then 2 a year are leaving. I’m sure coaches are not heartbroken they are leaving but kids don’t want to wait around anymore.


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1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:


To me it seems that the landscape has changed since the years people were calling it Creaning. Not sure the numbers back when Crean was coach but this year the average number of transfers out of 353 teams was 2.4 per team. Doesn’t seem a coach really needs to push anyone out the numbers say that more then 2 a year are leaving. I’m sure coaches are not heartbroken they are leaving but kids don’t want to wait around anymore.


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Or is it more coaches are forcing kids out?  

How many of those 2.4 are grad transfers. I’d think a lot where as Crean had either none or close to it

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Or is it more coaches are forcing kids out?  
How many of those 2.4 are grad transfers. I’d think a lot where as Crean had either none or close to it

Transfer List NOW officially over 800. Remember, we don’t include walk-ons like others - and we have removed those who withdrew from the portal. Biggest difference over last few years? Grad transfers.

Total: 806
Grad transfers: 178
Mid-Year: 113

Jeff Goodman


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21 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:


Transfer List NOW officially over 800. Remember, we don’t include walk-ons like others - and we have removed those who withdrew from the portal. Biggest difference over last few years? Grad transfers.

Total: 806
Grad transfers: 178
Mid-Year: 113

Jeff Goodman


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Fair point. Still wonder if the increase in transfers is solely on the kids and not coaches forcing kids out. My guess is it’s 50/50 

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So we sign 3 people. No open scholarships left. 

Would leave us with what 2 going into 2021 for that stacked class

 

Edited. USPS said what I was going to say. I think ultimately we won’t come close to maxing our scholarships and it seems he likes his 3-4 person class as he said as much for balance. While leaving flexibility if something comes up that could help us.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

So something unlikely or likely creaning. So my point stands

And you wonder why people consider you negative.

Why do you consider anyone transferring to be "Creaning"?  Crean had a habit of always having more players committed than he had scholarship spaces.  That has 100% not happened since.

Fact:  there are 873 D1 transfers in 2019.  That's over two per team.  Yet that is something you call 'unlikely' or 'likely creaning'.  Come on.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2019

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Fair point. Still wonder if the increase in transfers is solely on the kids and not coaches forcing kids out. My guess is it’s 50/50 

Didn't read the previous post which had listed the transfers as over 800, but there are 800 transfers this year that's an average 2 per team....and if you are saying it's 50/50 coach and kid, that's an average of 1 non-coach related transfer per year.  

This number also does not include decommits since they never actually attended the school they committed to.

This is the bottom line to me:  the only player that you could even come close to saying was 'Creaned' by Miller was Grant Gelon, who was told he could keep his scholarship if he chose to stay but didn't have the ability to suit up for the team.  And the truth is that was a correct assessment of his ability....it wasn't that Gelon had D1 ability and was simply a low major kid that a high major coach missed on, this was a kid who since that time played one semester of JUCO ball and hasn't been on the court since.  After taking I believe a year and half off, and he's just now finally playing again....at an NAIA school.

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Just now, brumdog45 said:

Didn't read the previous post which had listed the transfers as over 800, but there are 800 transfers this year that's an average 2 per team....and if you are saying it's 50/50 coach and kid, that's an average of 1 non-coach related transfer per year.  

This number also does not include decommits since they never actually attended the school they committed to.

This is the bottom line to me:  the only player that you could even come close to saying was 'Creaned' by Miller was Grant Gelon, who was told he could keep his scholarship if he chose to stay but didn't have the ability to suit up for the team.  And the truth is that was a correct assessment of his ability....it wasn't that Gelon had D1 ability and was simply a low major kid that a high major coach missed on, this was a kid who since that time played one semester of JUCO ball and hasn't been on the court since.  After taking I believe a year and half off, and he's just now finally playing again....at an NAIA school.

Which is a fair point but an average of 1 year per team does not guarantee it happening. 

You don’t put yourself in a position to going into a recruiting cycle stacked with local talent with only 2 scholarships. Even if somebody does transfer that’s still only 3 scholarships. Better to not take a flyer on a guy and keep that one open. Then you have 3 and if transfer happens you get 4. Much better situation. 

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Which is a fair point but an average of 1 year per team does not guarantee it happening. 
You don’t put yourself in a position to going into a recruiting cycle stacked with local talent with only 2 scholarships. Even if somebody does transfer that’s still only 3 scholarships. Better to not take a flyer on a guy and keep that one open. Then you have 3 and if transfer happens you get 4. Much better situation. 

At the least we will have 4-5 schollies going into 2021. Even at Dayton he was never one to overextend himself. Also it allows you as a coach to zero in on what you want. Whether you hit on that is up for debate. I don’t think we see too many classes where we go into it strapped. That’s where I think this kid could potentially be a solid pickup with his size. Him at the 1 even in short bursts makes us pretty big defensively. I like his form on his shot, but with those numbers it feels he needs reps. How it turns out if he came? I can’t pretend to say I would bet the house either way but I get why we are going after a bigger point.


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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

I would also say Moore, Jake and Curtis Jones were all possible creanings we obviously don’t know. 

Just checked the list of players in the transfer portal.  324 different teams had at least player enter the portal this year.  Six teams represented were D2 teams that had a player going to D1.  So 318 out of 353 D1 teams had at least one player enter the portal....or 90% of all teams with at least one team.

So a circumstance you called 'unlikely' is one that is pretty much the rule at this point in time.  Not having any players transfer is the exception.

I think your definition of what constitutes 'Creaning' is not what anybody else on this board would define it as.  

Talent, just like water, has a way of finding its level.  The days of a lot of players being satisfied with sitting the bench for four years instead of finding a level where they can play has been gone foe a while.  

In terms of Moore and Forrester being 'Creaned' which is the more likely scenario:  that

A.  Moore and Forrester were players who were capable of helping this team out in either the short or long term but Miller decided that he wanted to drive them out and sit them behind Fitzner and MacRoberts, neither of which provided much short term or any long term

or

B.  Neither showed the ability and/or desire to help the team in the long term or short term and they left?

 

Let's face facts:  from the outside, most fans believed that there were attitude issues on this team.  Attitude issues are not just things you have to worry about from guys seeing time on the court.....in a lot of cases, the worst cancers you can have are the guys that are tearing things apart from the bench, getting into guys heads.  It's no secret that on social media Jake's dad was ripping into players on the team....and it's also no secret that the jist of his statements was all about his son not playing.  So let's say that Jake was told straight up:  'your ability isn't there, you aren't learning the plays (which by every insider account I heard WAS the case, and this was well before any talk of transfer), your attitude stinks, and the posting by your family on social media is detrimental to the team'.....is that creaning?  Because from where I sit, those are statements of fact.  And from where I sit, I don't recall any extra offers being extended until AFTER Forrester and Moore had entered the transfer portal.  And since Brooks didn't pick IU, when still would have had an open scholarship even if they hadn't transferred.  Brunk signed a scholarship spot that was already open.

Let's look at another player:  Damezi Anderson.  A lot of people felt he was a transfer candidate.  But he didn't transfer.  And what did he do pretty much the moment the season ended?  Post about how the first year had been a tough learning process and how he was going to be going all out in the offseason to improve.  We never heard those kinds of things 

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we thought we would need/want more scholarships this year and now we didn't even use them all because most of our targets that we thought we had a good shot at went elsewhere.  Sometimes a bird in the hand is better..not that we even have a good shot at Austin.

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Never said it was this is the crap that leads to it though

Sigh.

I'm begin to feel you think that if any kid transfers, it was 'creaning'.  That much is clear when you bring up a midseason transfer of Curtis Jones as a 'possible creaning' as well as two guys transferring leaving us with three unused scholarships.

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10 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Some news, per a re-tweet by the young fella:

 

 

Interesting. Clearly not a desperation play then. Never thought it was, but it's definitely hard to know how good he actually is, so good to know other colleges agree that he's worth pursuing.

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