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They had one burger boy recruited by Jay Wright out of high school both years (Jaylen Brunson) they won a title. They had one in 2018 that didn’t work out and he doesn’t go there if the FBI thing doesn’t happen. They recruit talented kids, but they are talented kids that fit their system. Much like Virginia imo. So the recruiting jumping forward did not really happen until they won two titles. They recruited more burger boys during 2000-2010. From 2000-2009 they had 6 burger boys. They had 5 from 2010-2019 and 3 have been since they won their two titles.  
 
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I'm pretty sure Spellman was a burger boy too. Either way he was a 5*. The other guys were all top 80. Their recruiting before may have been just as good, but either way, they're recruiting elite talents. I guess they're recruiting guys that fit their system, but their system is built on top recruits. It's a lot easier to build a system when it's filled with good players


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7 hours ago, mdn82 said:

Let’s be honest. Our administration and compliance department makes it too difficult to jump into murky water. We have to go after specific types of kids. After Sampson I don’t see us going down the road that leads to players getting paid, not graduating, or doing what they want when they want. With that in mind, and one arm already tied behind our back I want BPA.

 

Edit: I truly wonder if there is specific language in Archie’s contract related to relationships with shoe executives or runners differing from the average coach’s contract. Or language pertaining to many of the things that would hamper most coaches.

 

 

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"one arm tied behind our back" might be the best description Ive heard of the IU basketball program.

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I'm pretty sure Spellman was a burger boy too. Either way he was a 5*. The other guys were all top 80. Their recruiting before may have been just as good, but either way, they're recruiting elite talents. I guess they're recruiting guys that fit their system, but their system is built on top recruits. It's a lot easier to build a system when it's filled with good players


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Spellman wasn’t a burger boy. But he should have been.


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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I think everybody just wants us to stop whiffing on our top targets

99% of schools don't always get their top targets. Every year a bunch of schools are recruiting all of the top 5 players very hard. Kansas, UNC, Arizona, pretty much everyone outside of Duke and Kentucky swing and miss on those guys all the time. When you recruit good players, it's going to be competitive. If we got our top target every year, we aren't recruiting a high enough caliber of player.

We could recruit 3-star guys and land our top target every single year probably, but Archie is fighting for recruits that we're competitive for because that's the way to get the best players. And the nature of real competition is that you don't always win. It's the nature of sport itself.

Edited by Aeggie

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5 hours ago, Aeggie said:

99% of schools don't always get their top targets. Every year a bunch of schools are recruiting all of the top 5 players very hard. Kansas, UNC, Arizona, pretty much everyone outside of Duke and Kentucky swing and miss on those guys all the time. When you recruit good players, it's going to be competitive. If we got our top target every year, we aren't recruiting a high enough caliber of player.

We could recruit 3-star guys and land our top target every single year probably, but Archie is fighting for recruits that we're competitive for because that's the way to get the best players. And the nature of real competition is that you don't always win. It's the nature of sport itself.

Yeah but the top schools when they miss on their top targets almost always get their second choice. 

We are on option G and about to whiff on that. And we about to lose a 2020 guard to Purdue for gods sake

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52 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yeah but the top schools when they miss on their top targets almost always get their second choice. 

We are on option G and about to whiff on that. And we about to lose a 2020 guard to Purdue for gods sake

Lol there's a top 20 recruit in our class and that's option G?

This board is hooked on histrionics 

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1 minute ago, Aeggie said:

Lol there's a top 20 recruit in our class and that's option G?

This board is hooked on histrionics 

A) He’s not top 20

B) Last time I checked basketball was a team game 

C) one success doesn’t make up for tons of failure. Otherwise Crean was our guy. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yeah but the top schools when they miss on their top targets almost always get their second choice. 

We are on option G and about to whiff on that. And we about to lose a 2020 guard to Purdue for gods sake

Coming into the season, it seemed like Archie's focus was on TJD, Brooks, and Franklin/Newman. He hit on 2 out of 3. So he had 1 pretty important failure this year, but that's not out of the ordinary. The previous class was pretty much all success.

He's scuffling to try to find the Brooks replacement, but he's also not settling. He could easily fill that spot, but he's proving that he's not going to spend a 4 year scholarship on somebody that he doesn't think is going to be an impact player

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35 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

Coming into the season, it seemed like Archie's focus was on TJD, Brooks, and Franklin/Newman. He hit on 2 out of 3. So he had 1 pretty important failure this year, but that's not out of the ordinary. The previous class was pretty much all success.

He's scuffling to try to find the Brooks replacement, but he's also not settling. He could easily fill that spot, but he's proving that he's not going to spend a 4 year scholarship on somebody that he doesn't think is going to be an impact player

Oh so we are at the stage of defending Archie where we pretend like some of his misses, Carton, don’t exist. That one especially bad since he chose the guy taking Archie lunch money twice a year. 

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Oh so we are at the stage of defending Archie where we pretend like some of his misses, Carton, don’t exist. That one especially bad since he chose the guy taking Archie lunch money twice a year. 

DJ was a miss no doubt. Nothing more and nothing less. Honestly it hurt UM worse since day of they were expecting him. I am not sure you can say it hurt worse since he went to OSU. Again, maybe for Michigan. Personally, it doesn’t matter to me where a kid goes if it’s not IU unless the kid is from this state and we are recruiting him from the get go like Brooks. That one hurt. But dwelling on missed recruits isn’t my cup of tea. My personality is to support who we got. Now if Archie doesn’t start winning it doesn’t really matter. He will be gone. He won’t get fired for missing recruits with how he is recruiting. He will get fired for performance. Then in a couple of years we can have reactions and over reactions in both directions.

 

I keep seeing he has to prove something to keep people happy. It’s May 9th. What could he possibly prove now? Getting upset on May 9th won’t change anything. His bed is made. He goes with the team he has. If he wins, cool. If he doesn’t? Cool. We will all live and move on. I think people are getting upset from people’s lack of a strong opinion on this. It isn’t other people are smarter than others. It’s just not everybody gets so worked up over this stuff. Not everything is perfect and at some point he has to just win. Red flags for some isn’t something others honestly care about. It’s end results. Part of that is not every recruit pans out based on ranking or whatever. It’s May 9th. We should be more worried about the players improving in the gym. That is how we will improve. There is no player LQ included that will be making that big of a difference to get this worked up over. That possibility ended in April.

 

 

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Oh so we are at the stage of defending Archie where we pretend like some of his misses, Carton, don’t exist. That one especially bad since he chose the guy taking Archie lunch money twice a year. 

Maybe some are at that stage while others are at the stage where some recruiting adversity has them focusing on the all the misses and finding reason to down play a class that includes a McDonald’s All-American. TJD lost his top ranking because he didn’t improve on his 2 main weaknesses heading into his senior year. Shooting outside of 10 feet and using his right hand more. He chose not to shoot outside because he was a team player and knew it would be better for his team if he was down low. He said many times during the season when asked why he doesn’t shoot and his response was why shoot from outside when I can shoot it from close up. I have no problem with them dropping him because they look at recruits and want to see them improve on weaknesses which is why Franklin got a bump because he turned his shooting into a strength.
In my opinion Archie’s top 3 were TJD, brooks and Carton and he landed one of them. You want to call Mann, Harris, Lester etc main target misses that’s your choice but it’s also my choice to look at each situation and see where they were no where near serious options for B or C. From my point of view he got a recruit for Group A and one from group B. Is that good enough for some? Probably but for others including yourself you are expecting different results. Who’s right? Both. Different people view this program at different levels and stages of where Indiana is.




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7 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

DJ was a miss no doubt. Nothing more and nothing less. Honestly it hurt UM worse since day of they were expecting him. I am not sure you can say it hurt worse since he went to OSU. Again, maybe for Michigan. Personally, it doesn’t matter to me where a kid goes if it’s not IU unless the kid is from this state and we are recruiting him from the get go like Brooks. That one hurt. But dwelling on missed recruits isn’t my cup of tea. My personality is to support who we got. Now if Archie doesn’t start winning it doesn’t really matter. He will be gone. He won’t get fired for missing recruits with how he is recruiting. He will get fired for performance. Then in a couple of years we can have reactions and over reactions in both directions.

 

I keep seeing he has to prove something to keep people happy. It’s May 9th. What could he possibly prove now? Getting upset on May 9th won’t change anything. His bed is made. He goes with the team he has. If he wins, cool. If he doesn’t? Cool. We will all live and move on. I think people are getting upset from people’s lack of a strong opinion on this. It isn’t other people are smarter than others. It’s just not everybody gets so worked up over this stuff. Not everything is perfect and at some point he has to just win. Red flags for some isn’t something others honestly care about. It’s end results. Part of that is not every recruit pans out based on ranking or whatever. It’s May 9th. We should be more worried about the players improving in the gym. That is how we will improve. There is no player LQ included that will be making that big of a difference to get this worked up over. That possibility ended in April.

 

 

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I certainly can agree with this. Obviously Archie isn’t going to get fired for Recruiting misses but these misses are going to make it harder to have success. 

We are an injury away from counting on a freshmen guard to contribute in 19. And will likely be in the same situation in 2020. 

Counting on non 5 star freshmen to contribute is a recipe for disaster. 

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I certainly can agree with this. Obviously Archie isn’t going to get fired for Recruiting misses but these misses are going to make it harder to have success. 
We are an injury away from counting on a freshmen guard to contribute in 19. And will likely be in the same situation in 2020. 
Counting on non 5 star freshmen to contribute is a recipe for disaster. 

Completely agree. I know I sound like a broken record, but my biggest beef with the recruiting is the lack of shooters we are going after. I feel we can probably do some damage with getting at least one top 25ish kid annually if the classes are even and have a purpose. I like the length and versatility we are going after. But for me we need a few kids that can be knockdown shooters. Typically a freshman can’t step in and knock down 3 or 4 3’s a game. Now as a sophomore or junior? More likely. I feel we have a couple of ok shooters that just didn’t get it going last year. We need shooters to come in behind them and be ready in a year or two. It looks like we will be counting on freshman for that in a couple of years. I don’t like that end for sure.


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25 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:


Maybe some are at that stage while others are at the stage where some recruiting adversity has them focusing on the all the misses and finding reason to down play a class that includes a McDonald’s All-American. TJD lost his top ranking because he didn’t improve on his 2 main weaknesses heading into his senior year. Shooting outside of 10 feet and using his right hand more. He chose not to shoot outside because he was a team player and knew it would be better for his team if he was down low. He said many times during the season when asked why he doesn’t shoot and his response was why shoot from outside when I can shoot it from close up. I have no problem with them dropping him because they look at recruits and want to see them improve on weaknesses which is why Franklin got a bump because he turned his shooting into a strength.
In my opinion Archie’s top 3 were TJD, brooks and Carton and he landed one of them. You want to call Mann, Harris, Lester etc main target misses that’s your choice but it’s also my choice to look at each situation and see where they were no where near serious options for B or C. From my point of view he got a recruit for Group A and one from group B. Is that good enough for some? Probably but for others including yourself you are expecting different results. Who’s right? Both. Different people view this program at different levels and stages of where Indiana is.




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Interesting insight about TJD and shot selection. It can be a concern from a fan perspective that players work on things they aren't proficient at during games trying to impress the experts. I felt there was some of that with Morgan this past year firing 3's after the NBA evaluation last year. I understand players want to impress, especially hoping to get to the NBA, but as a fan I'm only interested in team success.

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Oh so we are at the stage of defending Archie where we pretend like some of his misses, Carton, don’t exist. That one especially bad since he chose the guy taking Archie lunch money twice a year. 

You're right. I had forgotten about Carton. He committed so long ago that it slipped my mind, but yeah that was definitely another miss. Obviously it would have been nice to hit on everybody we prioritized, but I still don't think the recruiting is in bad shape. We will see how things are once the 2020 guys start committing.


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It is correct to say it isn't who we miss on its who we get. We got two bigs-TJD & Joey Brunk. Both are expected to contribute and maybe together will cushion the loss of Juwan Morgan. And, we got a guard who likely won't be ready to contribute much for a year or two (Franklin certainly is not in the same league as Romeo in terms of scoring next year). What we didn't get without mentioning missing on specific targets is a shooter when the overriding weakness this past season was shooting. Even if Archie believed Romeo would be a better shooter than he turned out to be, he should have known that Romeo was likely to leave and we would need to target a shooter in 2019. So that is a coaching failure no matter how you look at it.

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