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What exactly does this base want in their recruits?

Yesterday a poster said IU wasting our time going after the top Prospects because Archie isn't Calipari and we should be going after the 150 recruits (paraphrasing).

Today, in a response to my post, a poster is lamenting we haven't offered any "whales" and only 3 and 4 stars.

 

What are your opinions? I personally don't want a team full of 5 stars. I like the Virginia and Villanova models. It takes more than 2 or 3 yrs to get that culture.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

 

What exactly does this base want in their recruits?

Yesterday a poster said IU wasting our time going after the top Prospects because Archie isn't Calipari and we should be going after the 150 recruits (paraphrasing).

Today, in a response to my post, a poster is lamenting we haven't offered any "whales" and only 3 and 4 stars.

 

What are your opinions? I personally don't want a team full of 5 stars. I like the Virginia and Villanova models. It takes more than 2 or 3 yrs to get that culture.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I think everybody just wants us to stop whiffing on our top targets

I think Brass is right. Fans have been frustrated for finishing 2nd for many recruits. We will probably see frustration on Friday. My opinion is vague- I want guys that want to be at IU. I don't want guys who want the fastest way to the NBA. Take Victor Oladipo. Obviously Vic was really underrated coming out of high school. He should have been a top 50 recruit. However, he had to work and get better each year. In his recruitment I bet he never said anything about getting to the NBA as soon as possible. He got better every year and look what happened. I think Indiana has some good guys for next year. Al, Rob, TJD, Armaan, and Joey. You could list more as well. I just think so much of it is culture. Purdue had guys buy in and they have been making the second weekend of the tournament for many years now (that is the standard in their program). I think rankings are overrated as well. Yes, your top 25ish players are probably all studs. They stick out like a sore thumb at the high school level. But there are a ton of players out there who will be solid college players. I like to think of how the 2012-2013 team was built. You had two Burger Boys who we knew wouldn't be one and dones (Yogi and Cody), a top 50 recruit (Watford) and a few fringe top 100 guys (Vic, Will, and Jordan). That team needed more depth obviously but still. I think that is how you build a winning team. Looking at our current roster we have one burger boy (TJD, probably not a one and done), a top 50-80ish recruit (Jerome, Justin, also think De'Ron was as well), and some fringe guys (Rob, AL, Devonte, Joey, Race). I think this could be a top ten group in a few years with the right roster upgrades from the 2020 class. 

Bottom Line: Archie has to win now. Texas Tech and Virginia look a lot sexier to a recruit than they did two-three years ago. Keion Brooks chose a winning program over us. So did Anthony Harris. My hope- 2019-2020 team makes the tournament, returns key players, and is a top ten team in 2020-2021. 

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Let’s be honest. Our administration and compliance department makes it too difficult to jump into murky water. We have to go after specific types of kids. After Sampson I don’t see us going down the road that leads to players getting paid, not graduating, or doing what they want when they want. With that in mind, and one arm already tied behind our back I want BPA.

 

Edit: I truly wonder if there is specific language in Archie’s contract related to relationships with shoe executives or runners differing from the average coach’s contract. Or language pertaining to many of the things that would hamper most coaches.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

 

What are your opinions? I personally don't want a team full of 5 stars. I like the Virginia and Villanova models.

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I like the Villanova model. This year they have the 4th rated class with two 5 stars (and two 4 stars) and last year they had the 9th rated class with one 5 star (and three 4 stars) :)

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4 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I like the Villanova model. This year they have the 4th rated class with two 5 stars (and two 4 stars) and last year they had the 9th rated class with one 5 star (and three 4 stars) :)

Brunson and Spellman, starters on their last title team, were both 5*'s as well. 

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Let’s be honest. Our administration and compliance department makes it too difficult to jump into murky water. We have to go after specific types of kids. After Sampson I don’t see us going down the road that leads to players getting paid, not graduating, or doing what they want when they want. With that in mind, and one arm already tied behind our back I want BPA.
 
Edit: I truly wonder if there is specific language in Archie’s contract related to relationships with shoe executives or runners differing from the average coach’s contract. Or language pertaining to many of the things that would hamper most coaches.
 
 
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Certainly some truth to the idea that the admin makes it harder but Archie had a very good class last year and was on his way to an even better class this year. The question is, did the administration/compliance limitations cause us to lose a guy like Brooks or was that due to our performance this year.

Last year Archie and the future here looked very bright but now it is much cloudier and questions have developed.

Can Archie coach/relate to 5* kids?
Can Archie win at this level?
Can Archie recruit/build a team that can compete at this level?




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I think we need to get the 3-4 stars in here and build the foundation, and then get to where we are a player or two away from getting to the next level. That will be much easier to sell a 5* on.

I still don't think people realize how bad we were when CAM took over. He inherited a NIT team that lost it's 3 best players (two of which are NBA players), and was recruiting was definitely trending in the wrong direction.

I'll admit, it's a little tough to look at Texas Tech or even O$U and not be a little jealous. Having said that, Archie's system is designed for long term success. We have to give some time for that to happen.

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2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think recruits watched us play offense last year. What a disaster that was.

I know the team spent a lot of time last offseason getting the pack line defense installed correctly but I hope the coaches are giving equal time to the offense this offseason.

Hard to disagree with this. It was really tough to watch much of the time last year.

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Ultimately, I guess I don't really care how highly ranked the players Archie brings in are.  The bottom line is build a team that wins, a program that has success and sustains it, and plays within the rules.  Getting players from Indiana is important but not the be-all, end-all.  I'm not one that gives two hoots in hell about highlights, spectacular dunks and so on.  I get more enjoyment watching team basketball like we saw from teams like TT and Virginia.

I hate what 1-and-done does to the game.  I'm also going to play the old grump card and say that a lot of the attention seeking, prima donna act with so many of the 'elite' players rubs me the wrong way.

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I like the Villanova model. This year they have the 4th rated class with two 5 stars (and two 4 stars) and last year they had the 9th rated class with one 5 star (and three 4 stars) :)


I've seen so many people reference the Villanova model, as if they just load up on good team guys who Wright coaches up and develops over time. That's not the case. Following the Villanova model means elite recruiting. It's not a coincidence that they've become a national power at the same time that their recruiting took a big step forward. They get multiple top 100s every year and have had multiple McD AAs recently


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23 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

By definition, schools are going to miss more recruits than they get.  

Last year we got our top recruit in Romeo.  This year we got our top recruit in TJD.  Last year Phinnissee, Anderson and Hunter were most definitely very high on our list.  I think the frustration of not getting one last piece this year is being overstated as 'recruiting problems'.  TJD, Franklin, and Brunk are useful pieces.  

Brooks is really the only player whom I think we really looked to be the leader on that we didn't get.  People coming on here saying when we didn't get Harris and Quinones might be frustrated that we didn't get them, but the bottom line is that Harris was a guy who wasn't on the radar until he decommitted and Quinones was always a guy for whom Memphis was #1 and everyone else was competing for #2.  And if he goes to Memphis, we're basically his #2.  

Bottom line, we have to get better with the players we have.

I would argue that a Brooke was probably our top recruit

And it’s not ok to miss on guys just because we were never the perceived leaders. 

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I've seen so many people reference the Villanova model, as if they just load up on good team guys who Wright coaches up and develops over time. That's not the case. Following the Villanova model means elite recruiting. It's not a coincidence that they've become a national power at the same time that their recruiting took a big step forward. They get multiple top 100s every year and have had multiple McD AAs recently

 

 

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They had one burger boy recruited by Jay Wright out of high school both years (Jaylen Brunson) they won a title. They had one in 2018 that didn’t work out and he doesn’t go there if the FBI thing doesn’t happen. They recruit talented kids, but they are talented kids that fit their system. Much like Virginia imo. So the recruiting jumping forward did not really happen until they won two titles. They recruited more burger boys during 2000-2010. From 2000-2009 they had 6 burger boys. They had 5 from 2010-2019 and 3 have been since they won their two titles.

 

 

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I agree with the statement "we have to get better with the players we have."  We apparently don't have a choice since after Quinones IU is not in the mix for any 2019 high school graduates or 2019 graduate transfers. Further, we aren't going win many recruiting battles for top 100 players until we play better, i.e., until we are a tournament team. There are many reasons for our disappointing 2018-19 season. But recruiting is bottom line for most players--players want to know if they are going to a program that is going to win when they are there. Based on the past season and the returning players, that is not something that IU can realistically promise. Its not a sure thing TJD would have committed to IU if he had waited until spring like Brooks did.

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I would argue that a Brooke was probably our top recruit

And it’s not ok to miss on guys just because we were never the perceived leaders. 

Maybe Brooks was, maybe TJD.  Valid point.

But the whole 'missing on guys' line is really overplayed, IMO.  We get TJD and everyone just talks about how we didn't get Brooks.  Getting one of your top two guys year in and year out is a pretty good thing.

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2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Maybe Brooks was, maybe TJD.  Valid point.

But the whole 'missing on guys' line is really overplayed, IMO.  We get TJD and everyone just talks about how we didn't get Brooks.  Getting one of your top two guys year in and year out is a pretty good thing.

Yeah it’s a good thing. Just because we have some positives doesn’t mean there are some big red flags. 

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20 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

They had one burger boy recruited by Jay Wright out of high school both years (Jaylen Brunson) they won a title. They had one in 2018 that didn’t work out and he doesn’t go there if the FBI thing doesn’t happen. They recruit talented kids, but they are talented kids that fit their system. Much like Virginia imo. So the recruiting jumping forward did not really happen until they won two titles. They recruited more burger boys during 2000-2010. From 2000-2009 they had 6 burger boys. They had 5 from 2010-2019 and 3 have been since they won their two titles.

 

 

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I would also argue that Brooks might have committed to Indiana had he stayed in Fort Wayne and not went to Laporte LaL.  Leaving for prep school -- regardless of location -- quite often makes kids think beyond staying local.  I would argue that had Brandon Newman went ahead and had gone to a prep school in Florida (which he announced he was going to do before changing his mind), he probably would not have committed to Purdue.

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