(2020) PF/C - Dawson Garcia to Minnesota

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

I’ve talked about this for years and it hasn’t really changed. The Big Ten also loves to talk about how it’s the most physical conference. That’s worked out so well..

**** the Big Ten


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[VO5 8,272]

I think this discussion is also killing the big ten slowly. For a top conference, only a few teams pull in 5 stars ( IU, MSU, Maryland) and there are some years where only one 5 star is entering the conference. The talent level doesn’t touch the ACC and SEC. It really needs to change or our program will continue to suffer for it because of the conference

[ap2345 7,094]

I think this discussion is also killing the big ten slowly. For a top conference, only a few teams pull in 5 stars ( IU, MSU, Maryland) and there are some years where only one 5 star is entering the conference. The talent level doesn’t touch the ACC and SEC. It really needs to change or our program will continue to suffer for it because of the conference

You should have both Illinois and Michigan on the list of the B1G schools that land 5 stars.


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[HoosierAloha 29,887]

I think this discussion is also killing the big ten slowly. For a top conference, only a few teams pull in 5 stars ( IU, MSU, Maryland) and there are some years where only one 5 star is entering the conference. The talent level doesn’t touch the ACC and SEC. It really needs to change or our program will continue to suffer for it because of the conference

Also, note the differences in the conferences in regards to the FBI investigation and programs being looked at by the NCAA. (We all know the NCAA is a paper tiger though)

ACC:
Syracuse
Georgia Tech
U of No Classes
Uof6
Dook
Miami

$EC:
Every single program

Now, how many programs in the Big Ten were mentioned in the FBI investigation or had issues with the NCAA recently? Weird


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[Alford Bailey 12,244]

45 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Also, note the differences in the conferences in regards to the FBI investigation and programs being looked at by the NCAA. (We all know the NCAA is a paper tiger though)

ACC:
Syracuse
Georgia Tech
U of No Classes
Uof6
Dook
Miami

$EC:
Every single program

Now, how many programs in the Big Ten were mentioned in the FBI investigation or had issues with the NCAA recently? Weird


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But does it matter?

[Ranger78 1,293]

It only matters if you care about playing inside the rules. Nobody seems to care... the media doesn’t care.... most fans don’t care. The NCAA doesn’t really care unless they’re forced to care. I kinda still care, but it’s becoming really hard.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,725]

It only matters if you care about playing inside the rules. Nobody seems to care... the media doesn’t care.... most fans don’t care. The NCAA doesn’t really care unless they’re forced to care. I kinda still care, but it’s becoming really hard.

 

 

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Look at all the athletes and public figures supporting Wiseman. It’s all a farce. The reason I’m so jaded and pissed all these years later is because my most beloved team has been a joke because of not knowing how to play the system or being unwilling to, when the entire sport has operated under these false pretenses. The bigger the offenders the greater the success. Yet we suck year after year.

 

Archie has his hands full competing against these stacked teams with lesser talent. The big 10 used to all be on a level playing field besides MSU. But now, Ohio State is back, Michigan will bring in top talent. Illinois starting to, Maryland continues too. Falling behind the 8 ball again.

 

Fix the administration or fix the NCAA. Indiana’s chances are slim until one or the other happens.

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I’ve talked about this for years and it hasn’t really changed. The Big Ten also loves to talk about how it’s the most physical conference. That’s worked out so well..

**** the Big Ten


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Dating back to 2005, the Big Ten has had 12  Final Four teams.  The ACC has had 9.   The Big East has had 10.   THE SEC has had 10.   

What's not working out so well?

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Dating back to 2005, the Big Ten has had 12  Final Four teams.  The ACC has had 9.   The Big East has had 10.   THE SEC has had 10.   
What's not working out so well?

National Champions by conference since 2005 (not sure why 2005 but I’ll go with it)

ACC - 6
Big East - 4
$EC - 3
AAC - 1
Big 12 - 1
Big Ten - 0

I guess it’s cool the Big Ten has the most Final Four teams with a big goose egg to show for those appearances.


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[MikeRoberts 6,832]

Dating back to 2005, the Big Ten has had 12  Final Four teams.  The ACC has had 9.   The Big East has had 10.   THE SEC has had 10.   

What's not working out so well?

In all fairness, teams don’t compete for 2nd, 3rd, 4th place...

 

The Bigten has had exactly O champions in that time period. So that’s not working out so well

 

Edit, it looks like Aloha beat me to it

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

National Champions by conference since 2005 (not sure why 2005 but I’ll go with it)

ACC - 6
Big East - 4
$EC - 3
AAC - 1
Big 12 - 1
Big Ten - 0

I guess it’s cool the Big Ten has the most Final Four teams with a big goose egg to show for those appearances.


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The big game is really the only one that matters. Since MSU won theirs...
Indiana loses to Maryland 64-52
Illinois loses to UNC 75-70
tOSU loses to Florida 84-75
MSU loses to UNC 89-72
UM loses to UofL 82-76 in a game that doesn’t exist anymore.
Wisconsin loses to Duke 68-63
UM loses to Villanova 79-62.

The B1G is averaging a 77.3-67.1 loss since a team last won. Final Fours mean jack squat when it seems to be a given anymore that the B1G team will lose when if they’re in the title game.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

National Champions by conference since 2005 (not sure why 2005 but I’ll go with it)

ACC - 6
Big East - 4
$EC - 3
AAC - 1
Big 12 - 1
Big Ten - 0

I guess it’s cool the Big Ten has the most Final Four teams with a big goose egg to show for those appearances.


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Just picked ~ 15 years...so "modern."   Big Ten has been in  the final game 6 times.  You're really basing the comment that it's not worked out well for the Big Ten" over the results of one game?   That's an awfully narrow window and in reality based on factors well beyond how a conference is doing....but your measure is your measure.  You have to get there, and  the Big Ten has been there more than any other conference.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

29 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

In all fairness, teams don’t compete for 2nd, 3rd, 4th place...

 

The Bigten has had exactly O champions in that time period. So that’s not working out so well

 

Edit, it looks like Aloha beat me to it

 

 

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So you're going to base the overall success of a conference based on the outcome of a single game??    That proves nothing.  It just proves no Big Ten team has won a 3 week, 68 team tournament.  You're telling me that means the Big Ten isn't doing something right when they've given themselves the opportunity more than any other conference?   

Okay....  Your measure is your measure; but if national titles is your only measure for success, then the poor PAC 10/12 is in a world of hurt too, and the American conference is in better shape than the Big Ten.  But....your measure is your measure.

Edit :  FWIW since 2010, the Big Ten has had 59 players drafted into the NBA and has by FAR the most balanced distribution among teams.  Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina obviously skew the results to the ACC and SEC.  I don't think the sky is falling because Indiana didn't land Dawson Garcia.   

[MikeRoberts 6,832]

So you're going to base the overall success of a conference based on the outcome of a single game??    That proves nothing.  It just proves no Big Ten team has won a 3 week, 68 team tournament.  You're telling me that means the Big Ten isn't doing something right when they've given themselves the opportunity more than any other conference?   
Okay....  Your measure is your measure; but if national titles is your only measure for success, then the poor PAC 10/12 is in a world of hurt too, and the American conference is in better shape than the Big Ten.  But....your measure is your measure.
Edit :  FWIW since 2010, the Big Ten has had 59 players drafted into the NBA and has by FAR the most balanced distribution among teams.  Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina obviously skew the results to the ACC and SEC.  I don't think the sky is falling because Indiana didn't land Dawson Garcia.   

The sky isn’t falling over one recruit. I will say that the bigten produces a lot of good teams, rarely great teams and that is evident by the lack of championships. It’s hard to win a title but the more talent you stack year in and year out your odds of the stars aligning and having a great team increases and these top schools from the ACC and SEC are stacking rosters.

I think they are mostly cheating their ***** off and I have no issues with IU doing that but as a whole, the bigten seams to be as squeaky clean as can be all things considered.

I don’t think it’s the tough/bangers league that is the issue, it’s the 2nd tier level recruiting.

And yes, final fours are fun but going back to the original point, the bigten has been clobbered in these final games by mostly stacked teams from other conferences. Their best is better than our best


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[bigrod 2,784]

6 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

The sky isn’t falling over one recruit. I will say that the bigten produces a lot of good teams, rarely great teams and that is evident by the lack of championships. It’s hard to win a title but the more talent you stack year in and year out your odds of the stars aligning and having a great team increases and these top schools from the ACC and SEC are stacking rosters.

I think they are mostly cheating their ***** off and I have no issues with IU doing that but as a whole, the bigten seams to be as squeaky clean as can be all things considered.

I don’t think it’s the tough/bangers league that is the issue, it’s the 2nd tier level recruiting.

And yes, final fours are fun but going back to the original point, the bigten has been clobbered in these final games by mostly stacked teams from other conferences. Their best is better than our best


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I agree. I think many are not seeing this from his eyes. We have a pretty loaded front court. TJD is starting off well and most likely is here for at least another year. There's a lot of competition at his spot and going somewhere with little competition is probably far more appealing.

I also agree with this:

I don’t think it’s the tough/bangers league that is the issue, it’s the 2nd tier level recruiting.

I just wonder if the second tier recruiting is a cause or a product of being a banger league.

[pumpfake 3,914]

Fair or not, winning the big game is one barometer for success.  Most IU fans don't take a lot of pride in our runner-up finish under M. Davis (although we love the players from the team and cherish the Duke game).  NFL quarterbacks are judged by superbowl™ victories.  It's just the way it is.

We are judged by opposing fans because we haven't hung a banner since '87, despite have some really good teams over the next decade.  On the flip side of the coin, Kansas is regarded as an all time great program, but their championships have been widely spaced apart (and at least one came under a coach who was cheating).

 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

Just picked ~ 15 years...so "modern."   Big Ten has been in  the final game 6 times.  You're really basing the comment that it's not worked out well for the Big Ten" over the results of one game?   That's an awfully narrow window and in reality based on factors well beyond how a conference is doing....but your measure is your measure.  You have to get there, and  the Big Ten has been there more than any other conference.  

I agree getting to the Final Four is great for a conference. However, 0-6 is a terrible look and 19 years and counting doesn’t help either.

I believe this is due to how the league is officiated and how we recruit as a conference. Others have gone into further details on those things. There’s no need for me to repeat what they’ve said.


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[pumpfake 3,914]

1 hour ago, bigrod said:

I agree. I think many are not seeing this from his eyes. We have a pretty loaded front court. TJD is starting off well and most likely is here for at least another year. There's a lot of competition at his spot and going somewhere with little competition is probably far more appealing.

I also agree with this:

I don’t think it’s the tough/bangers league that is the issue, it’s the 2nd tier level recruiting.

I just wonder if the second tier recruiting is a cause or a product of being a banger league.

I'd like to touch on the underlined part, seeing as how there was consternation about "me-first" players (or those taking the "time to be selfish", lol).

I think all players want to play, want the ball, and want to be starters.  Obviously, game minutes, starting, and shots aren't as plentiful for some as they are others.  So, the situation at MU (as we've characterized it), makes a lot of sense for DG and I have no problem with that.

The "rub" comes when we drift into the idea of players that prioritize their stats and/or use college as a springboard to the NBA.  We've rehashed it many times about 1&dones at IU, but I get the sense Garcia was in the perfect grouping of players for IU - highly rated, but not focused on going pro yet (and that's why it seemed to me like he'd be a great get).  But I guess we really don't know all of his motivations and criteria for making a decision - personally I only go on things I read on message boards.

The top-15 type recruits are usually considered one and done candidates and probably in their own minds that is the case as well. Those guys are, IMO, very different from most other recruits in that they are in high demand, usually can pick almost any school they want, and come with certain demands/requirements for playing time and opportunities.  I guess in some ways, they're all "me first" players in one sense or another.  As long as they showcase themselves to the benefit of the team, that's fine and just the nature of the beast.  You just have to recognize going in that they are "special" and then decide if that's what your program needs at the time.

The one situation that I always wonder about is a guy like JuMo: he tests the waters for the NBA and they give him feedback on what he needs to improve in his game.  Let's say they tell him he needs to show the ability to nail the three.  Naturally, the only way he can show the scouts he can do it is to take (more) three pointers.  If the offense isn't tailored to him getting 3's, what does he do?  In his own self-interest the player is probably going to look for and take some shots that he wouldn't have taken in the past, and if he's not a really good at that it can be a detriment to the team.  Does this make him a "me-first" player?  I'm kind of split on the answer to that.

TL;DR  Players want to play & score.  The more highly ranked, the greater their expectations. I wish we got Garcia, but he likely saw a better situation at MU.

[Alford Bailey 12,244]

14 minutes ago, biteoftheapple said:

You can think about nane calling if yiu want. But it us preferred that you do nit name call on this board.

 

huh?

[Uspshoosier 44,198]

I knew I wanted to go to IU all along. Doesn’t mean I didn’t check out other schools to solidify my pick. It’s not his fault other schools tried changing his mind.


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Basically Leal and Galloway.


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