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I'm very interested to see what Archie's thinking on lineups next year, because right now we've got 5 big men (Race, TJD, Smith, Davis, Brunk) who are expecting playing time and offer no/limited threat from the outside. That's going to lead to the same types of offensive problems as we had this year. Good teams do not have 2 post players who can only score on the block

Hopefully Race and Smith are improving their mechanics and putting up tons of 3s during the off-season. Even TJD is going to need to add that at some point. That seems like the only way that all of these guys are going to be able to get on the floor


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35 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

I'm very interested to see what Archie's thinking on lineups next year, because right now we've got 5 big men (Race, TJD, Smith, Davis, Brunk) who are expecting playing time and offer no/limited threat from the outside. That's going to lead to the same types of offensive problems as we had this year. Good teams do not have 2 post players who can only score on the block

Hopefully Race and Smith are improving their mechanics and putting up tons of 3s during the off-season. Even TJD is going to need to add that at some point. That seems like the only way that all of these guys are going to be able to get on the floor


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I'd argue we have 4.   Smith is really a 3 and much better in the open floor.    I'd like to see him in the high post/FT line; but I wouldn't consider him a big.  Davis is capable of 15-20 minutes tops; Thompson is still just 6'8".    I think there are plenty of minutes to go around.  

Not sure I agree with your comment that good teams don't have 2 players who can only score on the block.  Purdue was pretty good and they had 2-3 guys who fit that description.   (Every kid can make a 10-15 foot jumper, so it's a gray-area argument, anyway)   

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I'd argue we have 4.   Smith is really a 3 and much better in the open floor.    I'd like to see him in the high post/FT line; but I wouldn't consider him a big.  Davis is capable of 15-20 minutes tops; Thompson is still just 6'8".    I think there are plenty of minutes to go around.  
Not sure I agree with your comment that good teams don't have 2 players who can only score on the block.  Purdue was pretty good and they had 2-3 guys who fit that description.   (Every kid can make a 10-15 foot jumper, so it's a gray-area argument, anyway)   


Agreed that a team can have multiple of those players, but you can't have 2 guys on the floor at the same time who can only score on the block. Spacing is going to be terrible if 2 or more are on the court together clogging the lane. Purdue almost never had 2 post players on the court together. They always had 3-4 guys on the court who were serious threats from 3, as well as Eastern. Eastern is a pretty unique guy in that he's a guard who's not much of a shooter, but he had unique skills that made him a mismatch in other ways. Haarms and Williams were rarely on the court at the same time, and sometimes neither were out there.

I would love Smith to be a 3, and he's the perfect body type for it, but he can't shoot and isn't good enough to take guys off the dribble like Nojel Eastern. He may not be a traditional 4, but his offensive skills put him there right now. If Smith can just shoot 33% on 3s and improve his ball handling a little bit, he would add a lot and be able to play 3 and 4. But unless he improves his shooting a lot, we can't play him at the 3. A lineup with Smith, TJD/Race,and Brunk/Davis would have fit in 1980, but not in today's game.

It'll be interesting to see how many minutes Davis can handle next year if he's fully healthy. He's always had foul issues, so good to have depth regardless of help. But right now it looks like we have 3 guys trying to play the 4. Hopefully Smith coming back means he's going to dedicate himself to developing wing skills, and the problem works itself out on its own.



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Agreed that a team can have multiple of those players, but you can't have 2 guys on the floor at the same time who can only score on the block. Spacing is going to be terrible if 2 or more are on the court together clogging the lane. Purdue almost never had 2 post players on the court together. They always had 3-4 guys on the court who were serious threats from 3, as well as Eastern. Eastern is a pretty unique guy in that he's a guard who's not much of a shooter, but he had unique skills that made him a mismatch in other ways. Haarms and Williams were rarely on the court at the same time, and sometimes neither were out there.

I would love Smith to be a 3, and he's the perfect body type for it, but he can't shoot and isn't good enough to take guys off the dribble like Nojel Eastern. He may not be a traditional 4, but his offensive skills put him there right now. If Smith can just shoot 33% on 3s and improve his ball handling a little bit, he would add a lot and be able to play 3 and 4. But unless he improves his shooting a lot, we can't play him at the 3. A lineup with Smith, TJD/Race,and Brunk/Davis would have fit in 1980, but not in today's game.

It'll be interesting to see how many minutes Davis can handle next year if he's fully healthy. He's always had foul issues, so good to have depth regardless of help. But right now it looks like we have 3 guys trying to play the 4. Hopefully Smith coming back means he's going to dedicate himself to developing wing skills, and the problem works itself out on its own.



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The way the game is going it is getter harder to play 2 Bigs that can’t shoot the 3 or stretch the floor but it has been done. North Carolina won a championship playing Meeks and Hicks together and between the 2 of them I don’t think they had made a 3. Meeks later in his career expanded to the 15 foot range but never past that.


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The way the game is going it is getter harder to play 2 Bigs that can’t shoot the 3 or stretch the floor but it has been done. North Carolina won a championship playing Meeks and Hicks together and between the 2 of them I don’t think they had made a 3. Meeks later in his career expanded to the 15 foot range but never past that.


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True. I shouldn't say it's impossible, but it's very rare that it works. It worked for UNC because Meeks and Hicks just pummeled people underneath and gave UNC a huge rebounding advantage. None of our guys next year for that description. They're good, but not dominant enough to impact an opponent's gameplan.

That was the rare national champion that wasn't great at shooting 3s (except in the sweet 16 against IU unfortunately), but they made up for it with rebounding and pace. They played so much in transition that half court spacing wasn't as critical as for most teams.


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On 4/19/2019 at 6:09 AM, OliviaPope40 said:

Averaged 7.7 ppg and averaged 18.9 mpg and started 13 games of the 32 they played. I don't why he didn't go here in the first place. I saw him play in high school and I wasn't that blown away. 

He was ranked just outside the top 100, so I wouldn't say that was that popular of an opinion then.

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On 4/19/2019 at 11:16 AM, mdn82 said:


I agree mostly. I think if he stays healthy AND stays out of foul trouble he could for sure. I think him and Brunk sort of become our two headed monster in that position. I feel if both together could get to that 14-16 ppg and 10 boards in 40 min between them it’s a win.


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The 14-16 points IMO is more likely than the 10 rebounds.

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Jerome's health and Justin's development are key. Those are my wings, along with DA. TJD and Race are my "4"s. Hit 12' and out . Both are agile enough to guard other 4s. Our best players need to be on the floor together, and not let other teams dictate what we do. We can finally compete size wise, and now people are saying we have too many "5"s.                                              Maryland and Gonzga were pretty successful this year playing 2 bigs together. 

 

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Jerome's health and Justin's development are key. Those are my wings, along with DA. TJD and Race are my "4"s. Hit 12' and out . Both are agile enough to guard other 4s. Our best players need to be on the floor together, and not let other teams dictate what we do. We can finally compete size wise, and now people are saying we have too many "5"s.                                              Maryland and Gonzga were pretty successful this year playing 2 bigs together. 
 

The 2 bigs on both Maryland and Gonzaga were incredible athletes, 3 of the 4 were threats out to the 3 point line, and 3 are likely first round picks this year. That is not the scenario we're looking at next year. We have 5 bigs, none of whom appear to be threats outside the lane.

Size was not nearly our biggest issue this year. If Deron had been healthy we would have had enough size. We weren't getting killed on the glass outside of the Maryland game. We were really good Yogi's senior year without a lot of size because most teams play small ball and value defensive versatility and athleticism over size. Our issue was that we couldn't stretch the floor and score with teams. If you have elite bigs, you can get away with that. Our bigs are fine, but they're not going to carry the team, so they need to be able to get out to the 3 point line


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Still believe 3 is our biggest question mark. TJD may not have the range to step out to 3 yet, but his agility and quickness allow him to be a 4. 

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5 hours ago, mdn82 said:


If between Davis and Brunk we can’t average 10 boards we will be in trouble imo. Unless TJD gets 10 rpg. I just don’t see that.


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Brunk averaged about 7 1/2 boards per 40 minutes last as did Davis.  I fully expect we will be getting more rebounds from the 4 than the 5 next year.

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Trading Clifton Moore (with two years remaining) for Joey Brunk (with two years remaining) was a steal.
Now if we can trade up similarly for Forrester, we will be going places.

It is I agree but we still need some difference makers. We have guys on the roster that can be that if they stay healthy and buy in.


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