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Old Friend

And then...there's this. DeVonte Green

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I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am.   He has zero chance as an NBA player right now.   He has the ability  in some areas, but not the brain; and nowhere near the ball handling.  I know he's investigating; but wow...  Not all college players are NBA players.   College players who shoot less than 40% for their career and have basically a 1:1 A/TO ratio do not make it in the NBA.   But....good for him.  I don't think I'd hire an agent.

http://amicohoops.net/nba-draft-nba-rumors-devonte-green-indiana-basketball/

Edit :  Credit to Old Fart and Stromboli for making me aware that I need to explain :  My point is I think he;ll hear from NBA scouts and anyone he asks the same things he is hearing from Archie and anyone who objectively evaluates his game.  I would like to see a player like him have enough self awareness to work on his own rather than having to "declare."  I think he'll be back, but it surprised me he took this step.   Lots of players a lot closer than he is don't take this step.   It just surprised me....but then, it didn't.

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It tells me he cares about developing. If he’s wanting to get better rather than just expecting it to happen, that’s a start. Ultimately, all those players care about trying to get to the league. This can coexist with caring about winning at the college level and playing for the name on the front of the jersey. Hopefully knowing this is his last season ignites not only a determination to improve, but also a sense of pride in the team for which he plays. The latter remains to be seen, but probably has a better chance of happening now that locker room distractions (hopefully) have been reduced.


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1 hour ago, Stromboli said:

 

Your signature line: "Your reach should always exceed your grasp."

Devonte:  "Ok."

You:  "No not u."

 

 

That's a fair point.   I would counter that there are ~4500 kids playing D1 basketball right now and I would imagine close to half have the dream of playing in the NBA.  At some point, a kid has to have the self awareness to know what he has to work on before any NBA team will take him seriously.    I suppose my point is right now, he will likely go get information from them which any knowledgeable basketball person could tell him.    Old Fart said it perfectly above.....I don't think he needs to declare to hear what he needs to hear.  I'll even edit above and make that point.    Yours is well taken.  Thank you.

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What's the downside to declaring though? Sure, they're going to tell him not to enter the draft, but he can still get valuable insights from teams. He's the best pro prospect on the team right now. That says more about our team than Devonte, as he's nowhere near ready for the NBA, but he at least has attributes that can translate. However, he needs to figure out where he could theoretically fit in pro basketball. He's likely too small to be a SG, but he doesn't have the decision making to be a full time PG. He could maybe be an offensive weapon on the 2nd unit. I think this is probably less about learning what skills he needs to improve, as he knows he needs to cut down on turnovers, and more about understanding where teams could see him fitting. If teams think he can only play PG in the NBA, then he'll need to spend all offseason there. If teams think he can be a combo guard, he would prepare slightly differently.

I think it's probably a long shot that Green ever becomes an NBA player, but he's flashed NBA level ability at times. Hopefully he can put it together consistently next year. I do think his game fits better in the NBA, which is more spread out and faster paced, than it does in Archie's system. While I'm glad he's on the team, he fits the pace Crean likes to play, and likely wouldn't have come to Indiana if Archie was recruiting him (Archie probably wouldn't have been interested either).

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3 hours ago, Free Jurkin! said:

What's the downside to declaring though? Sure, they're going to tell him not to enter the draft, but he can still get valuable insights from teams. He's the best pro prospect on the team right now. That says more about our team than Devonte, as he's nowhere near ready for the NBA, but he at least has attributes that can translate. However, he needs to figure out where he could theoretically fit in pro basketball. He's likely too small to be a SG, but he doesn't have the decision making to be a full time PG. He could maybe be an offensive weapon on the 2nd unit. I think this is probably less about learning what skills he needs to improve, as he knows he needs to cut down on turnovers, and more about understanding where teams could see him fitting. If teams think he can only play PG in the NBA, then he'll need to spend all offseason there. If teams think he can be a combo guard, he would prepare slightly differently.

I think it's probably a long shot that Green ever becomes an NBA player, but he's flashed NBA level ability at times. Hopefully he can put it together consistently next year. I do think his game fits better in the NBA, which is more spread out and faster paced, than it does in Archie's system. While I'm glad he's on the team, he fits the pace Crean likes to play, and likely wouldn't have come to Indiana if Archie was recruiting him (Archie probably wouldn't have been interested either).

Kind of a "spirit of the rule" thing for me which is why I said something.   Your point is valid, and on the surface, I agree with it.  But....   There are 3500 kids who could "declare" every year and take advantage of the system.     But...3500 kids don't.    If a kid's close...or really wants to know specifically what needs to improve so he can increase his chances or his "draft stock," I get it.   I don't think DeVonte is close or even HAS an NBA draft stock.    He's on nobody's watch list..   

You mentioned he shows NBA ability at times; and I don't mean to be trite but there are a few hundred players in the G League; at least 1000 players in college, and countless kids on playgrounds all over the place who flash NBA ability at times.   He's not a combo guard in the NBA.  He's too short.  He's an NBA "1," and he HAS to know he has to improve ball handling, on ball defense, shooting, and especially decision making.   No NBA team wants a point guard who's a poor decision maker, and DeVonte is.  He is a volume shooter and streaky scorer with average at best ball handling skills and pretty elementary numbers.  His numbers under Archie have improved slightly which tells me a little discipline has done him some good, especially toward the end of last season.   

Long answer...there is no downside to declaring, and I know he's just testing the waters, but the spirit of the "declare without an agent" rule exists for kids who are far closer than he is.   Sort of like that little kid who wants to play ball with the big kids.  Yeah...it's fine, and they should let him fool around just to be nice guys, but he's not yet really ready to play with them.   That's how I see it.

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2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Kind of a "spirit of the rule" thing for me which is why I said something.   Your point is valid, and on the surface, I agree with it.  But....   There are 3500 kids who could "declare" every year and take advantage of the system.     But...3500 kids don't.    If a kid's close...or really wants to know specifically what needs to improve so he can increase his chances or his "draft stock," I get it.   I don't think DeVonte is close or even HAS an NBA draft stock.    He's on nobody's watch list..   

You mentioned he shows NBA ability at times; and I don't mean to be trite but there are a few hundred players in the G League; at least 1000 players in college, and countless kids on playgrounds all over the place who flash NBA ability at times.   He's not a combo guard in the NBA.  He's too short.  He's an NBA "1," and he HAS to know he has to improve ball handling, on ball defense, shooting, and especially decision making.   No NBA team wants a point guard who's a poor decision maker, and DeVonte is.  He is a volume shooter and streaky scorer with average at best ball handling skills and pretty elementary numbers.  His numbers under Archie have improved slightly which tells me a little discipline has done him some good, especially toward the end of last season.   

Long answer...there is no downside to declaring, and I know he's just testing the waters, but the spirit of the "declare without an agent" rule exists for kids who are far closer than he is.   Sort of like that little kid who wants to play ball with the big kids.  Yeah...it's fine, and they should let him fool around just to be nice guys, but he's not yet really ready to play with them.   That's how I see it.

I'd only disagree slightly in that I think Devonte has an NBA shot, albeit a very slim one. I'd maybe put it at 3% instead of 0. Guys develop at different paces. He has some of the best raw talent in the Big 10, but at this point, he's far from one of the best players, but there's a scenario where he could get there. 

He needs to cut down on turnovers, and improve his ability in the lane. He doesn't really struggle to get past a guy off the dribble, but he just doesn't really know what to do with it unless there's an easy layup. That also leads to a lot of his turnovers as he gets himself into an advantageous position, but then makes a bad decision because he's not comfortable there. That can be fixed, but it will take a lot of reps. 

He's probably too short to be a combo guard in the NBA, but he's got a long wingspan, which can help negate the height issue. There's also room in the NBA on some teams for shoot first PGs, which is more Devonte's game. He's better when he's not facilitating as I don't think that's something he did before IU. He wasn't recruited as a PG, but he was turned into one because the other options were so bad.

Overall I agree with you. He's likely not an NBA player. But it also wouldn't shock me if he's impressive in workouts and builds confidence coming into next season. He was our best player the last 6-7 games of the season. When he's hot, he's really good. So if he gets hot at the right time, he can generate some interest. I don't see a scenario where he could do anything to be worth staying in the draft, but hopefully the pre-draft process will be helpful.

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19 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He got some attention a little bit ago for his GTA tattoo. Could be trying to strike and put his name out there for the scouts while some of that attention is still there. If he comes back with a great senior season then they might remember him. 

A great senior season would do wonders.

I know I have been very hard on the kid, and in my mind...deservedly so.   None of that matters now; but I will say this.  Carsen Edwards had an incredible run in the NCAA tournament and completely elevated his stock and made himself a ton of money.  DeVonte Green has a similar skill set.  He brings the work and discipline and then executes as Edwards did?   You never know.   I would bet anything I have he hears Carsen Edwards' name many times through this exploration process; and he didn't need to declare to do it.  =)

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Not really DeVonte specific but in general all these guys that are declaring and there seems to be WAY more than past years who are in this same situation in which they are really not NBA Draft prospects as of now.... What is the benefit? Specifically, what do they get to do?

Only a select few are invited to the combine correct?

What about individual workouts for NBA Teams? Can they all do that? (Assuming an NBA team wants to work them out)

What about interviews? I keep hearing they will get perspective on what to improve on etc, but from whom? Are NBA Scouts talking with them? NBA Coaches? NBA GMs?

I don't begrudge a guy for exploring all the options of their DREAM job... I am just curious on what all these guys get to do in the process before coming back to college?

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1 minute ago, Str8Hoosiers said:

Not really DeVonte specific but in general all these guys that are declaring and there seems to be WAY more than past years who are in this same situation in which they are really not NBA Draft prospects as of now.... What is the benefit? Specifically, what do they get to do?

Only a select few are invited to the combine correct?

What about individual workouts for NBA Teams? Can they all do that? (Assuming an NBA team wants to work them out)

What about interviews? I keep hearing they will get perspective on what to improve on etc, but from whom? Are NBA Scouts talking with them? NBA Coaches? NBA GMs?

I don't begrudge a guy for exploring all the options of their DREAM job... I am just curious on what all these guys get to do in the process before coming back to college?

 

60 players go to the combine. Everyone else is either declining because they are a lotto pick and don't want to risk injury, or is not getting drafted. So all these declarers ain't worth a hill of beans until the combine invitation list comes out.

 

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You have to be desperate to take shots at a kid to complain about stuff like this. He wants to play in the NBA, hearing from prospective employers only makes sense. It's really that simple. 

Declaring isn't "taking advantage of the system," either,  it's using the process as it is designed - to gather feedback and make an informed decision on remaining in the draft or returning to school.

No one knows what Archie is telling Devonte and no one can say whether NBA scouts would have the same critiques. Jim Boeheim said Michael Carter-Williams wasn't ready to go pro but last I checked he's still in the league so saying any person that knows anything about basketball would give him the same advice is foolish. You can find coaches or scouts or GMs or other basketball people that disagree about this or that player. 

Devonte doesn't have the game to make the league right now but there is nothing wrong with exploring the process to get an idea of how the league he wants to work his way into views him. People are really searching for an issue where there just isn't one. 

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I'd say there's about a 0% chance Devonte Green ever plays in the NBA. Hopefully that becomes someone else's sig line someday, but I don't think many of these kids realize how difficult it is to make an NBA roster.

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So a guy wants to get feedback on a potential dream job?  Cool.

I understand this take completely, but at some point it’s nice to have some reasonable self evaluation.

When a guy has a year like Carsen Edwards or Kyle Guy..... then go.

If you have physically advanced gifts but haven’t honed your craft. Get evaluations.

When you are a borderline starter on a bad B1G team and haven’t really shown ability to dominate your peers. Be reasonable.

Whatever though. Test the waters I suppose and get feedback that may or may not help him be a good college player.

FWIW I’ve always been a Green supporter and have recognized his talents since day one.


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