The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[IUc2016 6,923]

4 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

You say you're not obsessed and then continue on a rant about Crean recruits who haven't been at IU in years.  I really don't get this continued obsession in 2019 with Crean's recruiting habits, a coach who has been gone two years, and players he recruited some of whom haven't been around in a decade. Very weird. You all can obsess about Tom Crean's long gone players. I think I'll focus on the current squad.

Thank you. Glad I have your permission to continue to obsess over Tommy Crean. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,886]

54 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

Before OG Anunoby was hurt, Indiana defeated future NCAA Champs North Carolina and Kansas--not struggling.

IU lost four of six before OG got hurt in the Penn State game. We were already on a downward slide and then his injury made it worse. 

[8bucks 6,118]

You say you're not obsessed and then continue on a rant about Crean recruits who haven't been at IU in years.  I really don't get this continued obsession in 2019 with Crean's recruiting habits, a coach who has been gone two years, and players he recruited some of whom haven't been around in a decade. Very weird. You all can obsess about Tom Crean's long gone players. I think I'll focus on the current squad.

Seems you are as obsessed defending Crean and each time you post (and mention Crean) someone responds and mentions Crean. You also mention a desire to focus on the current squad which has Crean recruited players but you act as if Crean’s influence has been gone 2 years.

I have no idea if Archie is the right fit or not but part of the hole we are in is that we are changing from a offensive based team to a defensive based team. There could be culture issues still from guys who started off playing for Crean and are now leaders in an Archie system. That could have an impact.

I put more of the struggle on the current squad and coach than Crean but his time here is still impacting the current squad to some extent.


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[Joe DeLow 1,278]

If it was up to the fan base Crean probably would've been gone sooner, like he should have been.

He would have been gone after the 10-11 season. Threw money at Brad Stevens and still gotten Cody Zeller.


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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

3 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

He would have been gone after the 10-11 season. Threw money at Brad Stevens and still gotten Cody Zeller.


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Absolutely. It even isn't like we are speaking about this saying, "Oh in hindsight, that was the right move"... Fans were screaming for this to happen back then. Makes me wonder what reality Fred Glass lives in.

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

2 hours ago, Honkyman said:

You obviously miss the point.  I would take a Victor Oladipo and an OG Anunoby any day if the price is Peter Jerkin or any of the others mentioned.  Crean's approach of recruiting "diamonds in the rough" brought a couple of great players to IU who helped IU win Big 10 Championships and get to the Sweet 16.  That approach also brought in some guys who rarely played. I have no problem with that.  As I said, Bobby Knight recruited guys who almost never got up from the end of the bench and watched while the regular players won three national championships. It's time to get over Tom Crean who is now gone for two years and focus on how to make the current program competitive again for conference championships and getting into the NCAA Tournament.

VO and OG were two of my favorite basketball players in recent years. But the strategy in recruiting that helped land them is the same strategy in recruiting that caused us to make a S16 and then miss the tournament 2x under Crean. 

[DChoosier 7,054]

50 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

 

You have to have players on your bench who have a chance to develop later on. A lot of the players Crean brought in had no shot to develop so they transferred. Thats not good for a program. 

Just look at the players on the end of Purdue's bench last year, Aaron Wheeler and Sasha Stefanovic. They sat out last year and developed and now are providing quality minutes to a team in the elite 8. To say the end of the bench does not matter is incorrect in my opinion. 

The Bawa, April players are long gone and had nothing to do with Archie’s first two years.  The end of this years bench was Moore, Jake and Damezi. Two of them are Archie recruits and Moore did not play or practice one minute with Crean.  I hope I am wrong but I think only 1 (or zero) of those three will become a solid contributor.

[IUc2016 6,923]

3 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

The Bawa, April players are long gone and had nothing to do with Archie’s first two years.  The end of this years bench was Moore, Jake and Damezi. Two of them are Archie recruits and Moore did not play or practice one minute with Crean.  I hope I am wrong but I think only 1 (or zero) of those three will become a solid contributor.

nobody has said that they do have anything to do with Archie. Nobody.

His argument was that it was okay to have those types of players on the bench because the end of the bench does not matter. Plus it helps bring in Oladipo and Aunonoby, somehow. 

My opinion is that the end of the bench does matter. 

[Trish 11,408]

Archie needs another two years before being SERIOUSLY judged. His recruiting has been promising with keeping in-state talent home. Landing Romeo was huge for the program even despite our terrible season. There was excitement with IU basketball again once he committed. Rob is going to be a tremendous four year starting PG for us. To be able to snag him from Purdue County was impressive on Archie's part. Forrest and Anderson are question marks and of course we don't know about Hunter. 

One noticeable difference when Archie arrived last year was how much more fundamental we would play. We'd be throwing bounce passes, moving without the basketball, defensive awareness and IQ seemed better. This year, I'd argue there was no true identity to the team with Romeo on the roster. Offense struggled with our lack of shooting and movement and eventually teams found it was very easy to scout / defend us. 

Archie is young, he's shown promise, he's rebuilding a program that has been lacking in years past despite our Sweet 16's. Let Archie get a full roster of his boys along with some skill development and let's see what happens. We all want Indiana basketball to compete ever year with Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, Kansas, etc but when a coaching change occurs and there needs to be significant changes made under the new regime, then it's only logical to think it's going to take some time. 

[DChoosier 7,054]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

nobody has said that they do have anything to do with Archie. Nobody.

His argument was that it was okay to have those types of players on the bench because the end of the bench does not matter. Plus it helps bring in Oladipo and Aunonoby, somehow. 

Nobody? You also stated “nobody” (!!??!!) blamed Crean for this year when in fact many people /posts have blamed him, his culture, his players etc etc.  

[ebridges24 2,285]

30 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Seems you are as obsessed defending Crean and each time you post (and mention Crean) someone responds and mentions Crean. You also mention a desire to focus on the current squad which has Crean recruited players but you act as if Crean’s influence has been gone 2 years.

I have no idea if Archie is the right fit or not but part of the hole we are in is that we are changing from a offensive based team to a defensive based team. There could be culture issues still from guys who started off playing for Crean and are now leaders in an Archie system. That could have an impact.

I put more of the struggle on the current squad and coach than Crean but his time here is still impacting the current squad to some extent.


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But, don't you understand, he's saying Tom Crean is irrelevant to what happened this year and what's going to happen next year. I don't understand why his name is even involved with this thread. I'm not trying to be an a-hole, I just see where Honkyman is coming from.

[RatpigHoosier 1,022]

Yep in fact he could have pushed all three out and brought in mckinely wright, etc. I want him to succeed but i am not giving him an excuse on players he chose to keep. Im sick of coaching searches but archie needs to produce next year.

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Isn’t there a rumor going around that he was told he had to keep the Crean recruits? Don’t know the validity of it but that might have had an effect on how he was able to proceed with personnel.


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[Honkyman 1,670]

No, let's talk more about Crean and Priller and April and all those bad players Crean recruited years ago. That is the perfect focus for a threat entitled "The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?" And, let's believe unsubstantiated rumors about having to keep Crean's recruits (even though Miller pushed one of them out of the program).

How about a different angle? What should IU do to bring players into the program who can shoot 3-pointers at a respectable rate? I have to confess to feeling jealous watching Purdue hit 15 3-pointers last night on their way to the Elite 8. How do we get guys like Ryan Cline and Carson Edwards to come to IU? Should IU even be considering recruiting Joey Brunk when what we need most is shooters?

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Honkyman

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

Except all the times it doesn’t. OSU and Louisville for example

Our record would have been at least as good as OSU's this year without the injuries. Even as is, we were basically the same team. Mack did a great job this year, but he also had good, more experienced players.

You keep pointing to UL and OSU but ignoring the fact that the situations were not similar at all. 2 years ago Louisville finished 2nd in the ACC and top 15 in the country. Last year's OSU team had 3 top 100 recruits as seniors, and a top 100 freshman. Archie took over a team that had lost 2 NBA players and a great 3 point shooters from an already bad team. It should not be surprising that its taking longer


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[JSHoosier 19,559]

7 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

No, let's talk more about Crean and Priller and April and all those bad players Crean recruited years ago. That is the perfect focus for a threat entitled "The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?" And, let's believe unsubstantiated rumors about having to keep Crean's recruits (even though Miller pushed one of them out of the program).

How about a different angle? What should IU do to bring players into the program who can shoot 3-pointers at a respectable rate? I have to confess to feeling jealous watching Purdue hit 15 3-pointers last night on their way to the Elite 8. How do we get guys like Ryan Cline and Carson Edwards to come to IU? Should IU even be considering recruiting Joey Brunk when what we need most is shooters?

 

I think they need to bring someone in to work with the players.  Shooting issues, especially free throws, are a trend in Miller's entire career so I have a hard time blaming players (at least the players solely) for that.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

But, don't you understand, he's saying Tom Crean is irrelevant to what happened this year and what's going to happen next year. I don't understand why his name is even involved with this thread. I'm not trying to be an a-hole, I just see where Honkyman is coming from.

Someone brought up that they would take the Crean “diamond in the rough” players. I replied saying that came with a cost. Yes, I wouldn’t trade a Vic or OG for anyone but it cost the program consistent success with roster turnover.

There is so much going on here that I don’t think people want to admit what it’s going to take to get back. People want a quick fix and reference Beard, Mack, and Holtmann as examples of quick fixes. They’re doing great but they’ve either taken over established programs, hit it out of the park in grad transfers, or both. Good on them. I’d love to say we’re in the same position but we’re not.

Which Crean team would you say was tough? Yogi’s senior season they bounced back after a terrible start to win the Big Ten and make a sweet 16. The consistent winning culture hasn’t been there at IU. It’s been there at other programs and a drastic change wasn’t needed. That’s not an excuse. It’s reality.

We aren’t there yet and I get the frustration but to say Crean didn’t effective this season is wrong. If he were doing things well he’d still be here, some of his players are still here.


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[IUc2016 6,923]

20 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

Nobody? You also stated “nobody” (!!??!!) blamed Crean for this year when in fact many people /posts have blamed him, his culture, his players etc etc.  

Show me where someone blamed this year on Bawa Muniru and Jeremiah April? I guess I must have missed it. 

And no I said I had not seen anyone blame the losing streak on Tom Crean. Which I still have not. 

 

[ebridges24 2,285]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Someone brought up that they would take the Crean “diamond in the rough” players. I replied saying that came with a cost. Yes, I wouldn’t trade a Vic or OG for anyone but it cost the program consistent success with roster turnover.

There is so much going on here that I don’t think people want to admit what it’s going to take to get back. People want a quick fix and reference Beard, Mack, and Holtmann as examples of quick fixes. They’re doing great but they’ve either taken over established programs, hit it out of the park in grad transfers, or both. Good on them. I’d love to say we’re in the same position but we’re not.

Which Crean team would you say was tough? Yogi’s senior season they bounced back after a terrible start to win the Big Ten and make a sweet 16. The consistent winning culture hasn’t been there at IU. It’s been there at other programs and a drastic change wasn’t needed. That’s not an excuse. It’s reality.

We aren’t there yet and I get the frustration but to say Crean didn’t effective this season is wrong. If he were doing things well he’d still be here, some of his players are still here.


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Then, let's bring Dakich, Sampson, Davis and Knight into the conversation. They've all had a hand in bringing the program down also. I'd rather focus on the recent past.and what's in front of us. To me, Crean is irrelevant at this point.

[raorIU 300]

I think this thread may finally be over. Where do we go from here?

[bigrod 2,784]

5 minutes ago, raorIU said:

I think this thread may finally be over. Where do we go from here?

Hopefully up and out of this mediocrity abyss we have been rolling around in.