NIT Quarterfinal Game Thread - IU vs. Wichita State | Tuesday @ 7:00PM on ESPN

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

First time seeing them but hard to believe Wichita St. with that coach was a #6 seed in the NIT.  They must have been truly awful at the beginning of the year.

They were. I think they started 8-11. They've been hot to close the season


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[cappymo14 2,276]

Well, not terribly surprised. Open shots and free-throws again. Mix that with some poor passing, poor rebounding, and a pac-line defense that is incredibly susceptible to dribble penetration. Destined to finish with 16 losses. Was always going to happen, injuries or not.
I somewhat agree with the statement “Have a single one and done, and you’re done”. Romeo Langford didn’t end up being the savior we all hoped for. The kid came in with absolutely impossible expectations. I lightly subscribe to the theory that his very presence created something of a power struggle within the team. His “having a different agenda” is bull crap though. I felt he gave his very best every day, and for a time, I thought he might just be that savior. I’d say it was more that him being the focal point created jealousy. I could see it in several players. Whatever Romeo decides to do (Brother, listen to me man, go get that money.) I wish him the very best. Sad to see both Juwan, and likely Romeo leave without getting a shot at the Dance. I truly hate it for both of them. So on to next year. Long summer, no recruitment to follow. Going to be checking in from time to time, to see if there’s any news or just for a quick chat. Good luck to you all. Better days are right around the corner.


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[DChoosier 7,054]

29 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

People don't score much on us. We just can't score. You don't end the season with those defensive metrics if you habitually have bad effort. Yes, there are some bad spurts, which isn't surprising from a young team. But this is an undersized team that has been hammered by injuries all year. We had a bad season because we were historically bad from 3 in Big 10 games, not because teams were beating us up from lack of effort (except the Minnesots game - that was bad).


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I’m not a Crean fan at all but his first team of mutts tried harder than this team. We will just have to agree to disagree. Even Romeo and Morgan said we came out flat, as we did many times during the losing streak, for what was essentially the tourney play-in game against OSU. THE GAME TO GET INTO THE TOURNEY.  

[cchuntsman 186]

24 minutes ago, hoosierdogg said:

In a game where IU desperately needed three point shooting, why did Fitzner not even see the floor?  Nobody else wanted to shoot the three, passed up plenty of open looks, should have let Fitzner let a few fly.  

Fitzner cannot defend McDuffie.  That’s why you never saw him.  Just a matchup thing.  

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

I’m not a Crean fan at all but his first team of mutts tried harder than this team. We will just have to agree to disagree. Even Romeo and Morgan said we came out flat, as we did many times during the losing streak, for what was essentially the tourney play-in game against OSU. THE GAME TO GET INTO THE TOURNEY.  

Not saying effort wasn't an issue, but I just think it likely wouldn't have surfaced as an issue if we could just make open 3s. I rarely thought our effort was abysmal and just thought shooting held us back much more than effort.


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[HoosierAloha 29,886]

Did anyone really show disappointment that we lost?


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[RaceToTheTop 23,546]

49 minutes ago, Josh said:

Archie Miller will never beat Gregg Marshall in March.  They are different coaches by light years.

Factually....Miller has beaten two coaches who have national championships in the NCAA tournament.....and had inferior talent.

[RaceToTheTop 23,546]

Just now, HoosierAloha said:

Did anyone really show disappointment that we lost?


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If you weren't going to be disappointed with a loss, I don't know why you would watch the game.

[pumpfake 3,914]

10 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Did anyone really show disappointment that we lost?


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Disappointed? Absolutely

Surprised? Not at all

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Did anyone really show disappointment that we lost?


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Yes I did with the game, season, and state of the program.

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[HoosierAloha 29,886]

If you weren't going to be disappointed with a loss, I don't know why you would watch the game.

On the team, it looked like they were just kind and of done.

When was the last time we had players who hated to lose? Yogi, Hulls?


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[Alford Bailey 12,238]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

On the team, it looked like they were just kind and of done.

When was the last time we had players who hated to lose? Yogi, Hulls?


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Yogi

[hoosierdogg 3,090]

29 minutes ago, cchuntsman said:

Fitzner cannot defend McDuffie.  That’s why you never saw him.  Just a matchup thing.  

Didn't look like anybody could guard McDuffie...

[Josh 12,359]

1 hour ago, wirenuts said:

Yep. Completely different coaches. One coach has shooters, the other one not so much. 

That's really simplifying stuff.  Do you understand trends?  If the trend doesn't change, that's noee than coincidence. 

[cappymo14 2,276]

I’m not a Crean fan at all but his first team of mutts tried harder than this team. We will just have to agree to disagree. Even Romeo and Morgan said we came out flat, as we did many times during the losing streak, for what was essentially the tourney play-in game against OSU. THE GAME TO GET INTO THE TOURNEY.  

I don’t know man. The lack of effort thing is just an excuse to me. How do you measure effort? Is there a measuring stick or something? The lack of effort talk started with the slow starts. Listen, I’m going to tell you why (again) the team was prone to slow starts. You can agree or disagree, but it will be out there.
Start with an offense that was nothing. No movement, no goal, no attempt to get the ball to its best players in a position to score. The wrong people were taking shots. Every. Time. Most of those were late shot clock because the offensive scheme failed, not the player. Couple bricks later, it’s 10-0. Romeo probably hadn’t touched the ball and if Juwan shot, it was a 3. Again, wrong guy, wrong spot. Flawed lineups later on were caused by mounting injuries and a suspension. Mcbob, Fitzner, Damezi, Moore and Jake? Really? What was going to happen? On the other end, it was a scramble. Packline shmackline, it’s still fricken man to man and it’s still basketball. 2 guys can’t follow the handle on a simple ball screen bro. How many times in the first 4 minutes of a game? Tell me 5 and I’ll show you 10. Rebounding buried them to start, and finish games all season. Well hell, rebounding is all effort right? That must surely prove that the team was dogging it right? Bro’s, you played Michigan twice, Maryland, Nebraska, Ohio St., Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa and Duke. And those were just the games we lost...did we get out rebounded? Jesus Christ, of course we did, are you kidding? Talk about size disadvantage, shoot man, that’s mountains and mole hills. You can call losing games a lack of effort if you’d like, but consider for a moment another cause. Lack of talent. Lack of size. Lack of shooting. Lack of coaching. The last one hurts to say. I firmly believe there were undeniable coaching deficiencies that cost this team dearly. It’s hard for me to admit in print. I like Archie. I bet if you asked him though, he’d be the first to agree. It was not his finest job.


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[DChoosier 7,054]

57 minutes ago, cappymo14 said:

I don’t know man. The lack of effort thing is just an excuse to me. How do you measure effort? Is there a measuring stick or something? The lack of effort talk started with the slow starts. Listen, I’m going to tell you why (again) the team was prone to slow starts. You can agree or disagree, but it will be out there.
Start with an offense that was nothing. No movement, no goal, no attempt to get the ball to its best players in a position to score. The wrong people were taking shots. Every. Time. Most of those were late shot clock because the offensive scheme failed, not the player. Couple bricks later, it’s 10-0. Romeo probably hadn’t touched the ball and if Juwan shot, it was a 3. Again, wrong guy, wrong spot. Flawed lineups later on were caused by mounting injuries and a suspension. Mcbob, Fitzner, Damezi, Moore and Jake? Really? What was going to happen? On the other end, it was a scramble. Packline shmackline, it’s still fricken man to man and it’s still basketball. 2 guys can’t follow the handle on a simple ball screen bro. How many times in the first 4 minutes of a game? Tell me 5 and I’ll show you 10. Rebounding buried them to start, and finish games all season. Well hell, rebounding is all effort right? That must surely prove that the team was dogging it right? Bro’s, you played Michigan twice, Maryland, Nebraska, Ohio St., Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa and Duke. And those were just the games we lost...did we get out rebounded? Jesus Christ, of course we did, are you kidding? Talk about size disadvantage, shoot man, that’s mountains and mole hills. You can call losing games a lack of effort if you’d like, but consider for a moment another cause. Lack of talent. Lack of size. Lack of shooting. Lack of coaching. The last one hurts to say. I firmly believe there were undeniable coaching deficiencies that cost this team dearly. It’s hard for me to admit in print. I like Archie. I bet if you asked him though, he’d be the first to agree. It was not his finest job.


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Is there an official measuring stick? No, but the eye test saw games where guys did not get back on defense, were lackadaisical in their close outs, did not hustle back on offense or defense, did not work to stay in front of their men or make an effort to rotate to help, did not try to block out, threw lazy @$$ passes that led to unforced to’s, stood around on offense, had body language that belonged at a funeral, etc etc.  Even the players admitted they came out flat in numerous games. I can’t believe this is even debatable.

There is no question that having good shooters would make us look better, and win more games, but I’m not even talking about wins and losses...just play every game like you give a damn.

[cchuntsman 186]

24 minutes ago, hoosierdogg said:

Didn't look like anybody could guard McDuffie...

McDuffie shot 41% for the game.  Not sure I’d say defense on him was bad at that rate.  If Fitzner was guarding him he’d shoot well over 50%.  

[colonel06 1,913]

I don’t know man. The lack of effort thing is just an excuse to me. How do you measure effort? Is there a measuring stick or something? The lack of effort talk started with the slow starts. Listen, I’m going to tell you why (again) the team was prone to slow starts. You can agree or disagree, but it will be out there.
Start with an offense that was nothing. No movement, no goal, no attempt to get the ball to its best players in a position to score. The wrong people were taking shots. Every. Time. Most of those were late shot clock because the offensive scheme failed, not the player. Couple bricks later, it’s 10-0. Romeo probably hadn’t touched the ball and if Juwan shot, it was a 3. Again, wrong guy, wrong spot. Flawed lineups later on were caused by mounting injuries and a suspension. Mcbob, Fitzner, Damezi, Moore and Jake? Really? What was going to happen? On the other end, it was a scramble. Packline shmackline, it’s still fricken man to man and it’s still basketball. 2 guys can’t follow the handle on a simple ball screen bro. How many times in the first 4 minutes of a game? Tell me 5 and I’ll show you 10. Rebounding buried them to start, and finish games all season. Well hell, rebounding is all effort right? That must surely prove that the team was dogging it right? Bro’s, you played Michigan twice, Maryland, Nebraska, Ohio St., Minnesota, Purdue, Iowa and Duke. And those were just the games we lost...did we get out rebounded? Jesus Christ, of course we did, are you kidding? Talk about size disadvantage, shoot man, that’s mountains and mole hills. You can call losing games a lack of effort if you’d like, but consider for a moment another cause. Lack of talent. Lack of size. Lack of shooting. Lack of coaching. The last one hurts to say. I firmly believe there were undeniable coaching deficiencies that cost this team dearly. It’s hard for me to admit in print. I like Archie. I bet if you asked him though, he’d be the first to agree. It was not his finest job.


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Don’t know if I agree with all but some very salient points and good writing I think:)


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[schoosier 3,444]

Whic St was better at every position other than 1. As long as we’re saying that against an AAC school(or whatever conf they’re in) as well as most Big 10 teams; these results will continue. And Archie will be coach #5 to bite the dust in Bloomington. Archie got outcoached tonight simple. No he didn’t  shoot the shots, but he let Al and co continue to miss without any chance of next man up. Why have 12/13 scholarships if none can shoot? Our biggest weakness Archie didn’t address last year and it cost us big time. And he still hasn’t got ink on anyone to solve it. 

[HooHooHoo22 3,902]

Did anyone catch the deron interviews in the locker room where he said something about the coaches never really say anything during halftime. He said he knew things were bad when schilling got loud with them because the coaches usually don’t say much. How and the hell do you watch your team play with no effort every night and not flip out on them ?!


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