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NIT Game Thread - IU vs. St. Francis (PA) | 3/19 @ 7PM(ET) on ESPN

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2 minutes ago, HoosierDYT said:

Dare I say rob and green could be a nice 1-2 punch at point guard next year? Between those 2 and Durham, I expect improved 3 pt % and one of our weaknesses could become a strength


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Green was 4-13 from the floor and took several bad shots again.  He also had 3 more turnovers.    He's gotta' lose "Bad DeVonte" for him to be a good combo with anybody.  The good in him can light up a gym.  The bad can lose his team games.  

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9 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Green was 4-13 from the floor and took several bad shots again.  He also had 3 more turnovers.    He's gotta' lose "Bad DeVonte" for him to be a good combo with anybody.  The good in him can light up a gym.  The bad can lose his team games.  

Green had 6 assists to 2 turnovers. It’s hard to tell a player a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio isn’t good enough.

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56 minutes ago, Hoosierfan222 said:

Green had 6 assists to 2 turnovers. It’s hard to tell a player a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio isn’t good enough.

Okay, you can do better than look at a stat sheet, right?

He had 3 turnovers.  He was credited with 2, but the play near the end...the strip/steal was counted as a blocked shot.   He also threw 2 careless alley-oop passes that would have been turnovers had his team mates not cleaned up after him; and you have to have watched him enough this season to notice the horrible shot selection.   Those shots people are discussing that stopped momentum and were essentially "my turn" shots?   At least 3 of them were Green's.

If you look at a stat sheet you see 6 assists (against one of the worst defenses in the country) and 2 TO's.  If you actually watched the game and have watched the season.........

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1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

Green was 4-13 from the floor and took several bad shots again.  He also had 3 more turnovers.    He's gotta' lose "Bad DeVonte" for him to be a good combo with anybody.  The good in him can light up a gym.  The bad can lose his team games.  

He Is what he is.  I don't think what he is as bad as people think....his effective shooting percentage is above 50% and he is our best shooter.  And when you dive into thd stats he is getting more assistant/game then RP despite playing fewer minutes.

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IU should know that regardless of the opponent that they will bring their A+ game and play their hardest to beat which was once a storied elite program even though we are not anymore.

IU needs to have the same mentality...... act like they are playing IU (themselves) with the same intensity.

 

* If that doesn’t work..... hire a Shaman (1 : a priest or priestess who uses magic for the purpose of curing the sick, divining the hidden, and controlling events) to eradicate the demons in SS-AH and the basketball program POST HASTE!

 

 

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5 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

He Is what he is.  I don't think what he is as bad as people think....his effective shooting percentage is above 50% and he is our best shooter.  And when you dive into thd stats he is getting more assistant/game then RP despite playing fewer minutes.

If you use stats he's one player.  If you watch him, he's another.  His decision making; his propensity for foolish, careless plays, and his incredibly mind numbing shot selection don't show up on the stat sheet.  (Again, when people reference IU having success and then taking some shot that's seemingly out of nowhere and killing momentum?  That's generally Green.   The poor choices and bad timing that is harmful to his team won't show in a stat sheet)

I'll grant he has been a better and more positive influence lately; but even last night there were at least 6 plays I can remember that were just possession giveaways and another couple of hero plays that would have been turnovers had team mates not bailed him out.   He gets rid of those plays, he's a really good college player.  His A:TO ratio is 3:2.2.    Phinisee's is 2.8:1.2.   So..while you're right that Green is getting more assists (and that's in some part due to kids making shots), that's only part of the story.

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Watching last night Green plays hard like really hard. He may have a bad play but the effort is apparent and he wants to do the right thing. I hope he is back a little more mature each game in this tournament and next year with the same effort and less mistakes.


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52 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

If you use stats he's one player.  If you watch him, he's another.  His decision making; his propensity for foolish, careless plays, and his incredibly mind numbing shot selection don't show up on the stat sheet.  (Again, when people reference IU having success and then taking some shot that's seemingly out of nowhere and killing momentum?  That's generally Green.   The poor choices and bad timing that is harmful to his team won't show in a stat sheet)

I'll grant he has been a better and more positive influence lately; but even last night there were at least 6 plays I can remember that were just possession giveaways and another couple of hero plays that would have been turnovers had team mates not bailed him out.   He gets rid of those plays, he's a really good college player.  His A:TO ratio is 3:2.2.    Phinisee's is 2.8:1.2.   So..while you're right that Green is getting more assists (and that's in some part due to kids making shots), that's only part of the story.

I have a love/hate for Green, but in fairness I would say “taking a poorly chosen shot and killing momentum” could be blamed on at least half of Indiana’s roster, probably more.

I think Davis likely takes the most fundamental shots on the entire team, rarely does he select a poor shot.

Juwan takes shots that are difficult to make because he’s often forced to create as an undersized big man. 

When a player shoots 24% from 3 and has one of the best mid range games in the country  (Romeo) and elects to jack up a three early in the possession when his team is only down by single digits with plenty of minutes to play, that’s poor decision making. Sometimes he hits them.

Justin Smith has plenty of jacked up 3’s for someone who isn’t typically a great shooter.

Green, Phinisee, and Durham all drive a clogged lane too often and hope for a foul to be called to bail them out for a shot they didn’t have. Sometimes they hit them. Sometimes they get the foul call. Sometimes it’s poor shot selection.

There’s Indiana’s seven players with the most minutes. 

I know bad Green can be immensely frustrating, but to say he’s always the one making a poor shot selection is very different from what I’ve seen all year. The game where Green didn’t pass to an open Phinisee at the end of the game was selfish and despicable, but he’s certainly not the one who always makes a poor shot selection. He may make more bad decisions than anyone else (and that could be argued), but he’s DEFINITELY not making more poor choices alone than the rest of the team combined (which is what your statement implies).

Personally, I’ve mostly liked the Green I’ve seen play since the “team chemistry issues” thread was started. And from what I’ve read and witnessed in the way of playing time, Archie has liked what he saw from Green too. 

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5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I like Green. I hope he's back next year. He makes dumb mistakes sometimes, and he can be incredibly frustrating, but he's one of the few players who always plays hard and acts like he cares about winning.. 

We need to use him better. He should be our catch and shoot guy. Stop using him to run the offense. His only decision should be should he shoot or shoot. 

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2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

We need to use him better. He should be our catch and shoot guy. Stop using him to run the offense. His only decision should be should he shoot or shoot. 

I think that'd be a good idea. He has point guard size but he's not really a point guard. He's a 2 guard in a point guard's body. He's by far our best three point shooter at 41.6% for the year. We should work to get him more open looks. 

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1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I think that'd be a good idea. He has point guard size but he's not really a point guard. He's a 2 guard in a point guard's body. He's by far our best three point shooter at 41.6% for the year. We should work to get him more open looks. 

Yep between him and al we have some shooters. And during Phinisees healthy time he wasn’t a slouch either. 

A lot of it is I feel we had the wrong people shooting our 3s. 

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12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yep between him and al we have some shooters. And during Phinisees healthy time he wasn’t a slouch either. 

A lot of it is I feel we had the wrong people shooting our 3s. 

 

I was having this conversation with someone in PM.  Here's part of what we were saying:

 

Romeo and Juwan basically lead the team in 3 attempts, and they're some of the worst shooters on the team.  So that has really skewed the percentage and effectiveness.  I like to think that getting guys shooting just 34% from 3 would be enough to make this offense tick.  

 

Just checked.  Romeo attempted 125 on the year at 27.2% (most attempts by far).  Juwan attempted 84 at 29%.  Fitzner and McRoberts combined took 69 attempts at 28.9%.  So with a team percentage of 31%, I think the volume of poor shooters are leaving and that team percentage will get better.  

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11 minutes ago, Stromboli said:

 

I was having this conversation with someone in PM.  Here's part of what we were saying:

 

Romeo and Juwan basically lead the team in 3 attempts, and they're some of the worst shooters on the team.  So that has really skewed the percentage and effectiveness.  I like to think that getting guys shooting just 34% from 3 would be enough to make this offense tick.  

 

Just checked.  Romeo attempted 125 on the year at 27.2% (most attempts by far).  Juwan attempted 84 at 29%.  Fitzner and McRoberts combined took 69 attempts at 28.9%.  So with a team percentage of 31%, I think the volume of poor shooters are leaving and that team percentage will get better.  

Im not shocked by those numbers. Been saying since December that Al and Phinisee should have been our shooters. 

Curious what our returning players percentage is?

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8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Okay, you can do better than look at a stat sheet, right?

He had 3 turnovers.  He was credited with 2, but the play near the end...the strip/steal was counted as a blocked shot.   He also threw 2 careless alley-oop passes that would have been turnovers had his team mates not cleaned up after him; and you have to have watched him enough this season to notice the horrible shot selection.   Those shots people are discussing that stopped momentum and were essentially "my turn" shots?   At least 3 of them were Green's.

If you look at a stat sheet you see 6 assists (against one of the worst defenses in the country) and 2 TO's.  If you actually watched the game and have watched the season.........

He could have 30 points, 12 assists, 8 steals, 5 blocks, and 1 TO and you would focus on his TO.

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49 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yep between him and al we have some shooters. And during Phinisees healthy time he wasn’t a slouch either. 

A lot of it is I feel we had the wrong people shooting our 3s. 

I'm in agreement with you but what I've struggled to understand this season is why some players continue! to take those shots when the numbers don't lie??? You're not a good outside shooter! You continue to take those shots and your @$$ is gonna be on the bench! 

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