IU v OSU BTT Thread

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

The saddest Irony today was the first day Bracketmatrix had us in the tourney 

[ThomasJane 3]

1 minute ago, Free Jurkin! said:

Comparing Holtmann's and Archie's first 2 years is not really fair. Yes, Archie did not do a great job, and the team should have been better, but Holtmann took over a team that was full of solid upperclassmen. Indiana plays 1 senior, 2 juniors (who both missed a lot of time this year), and the rest sophomores and freshmen. They took over teams that had performed poorly the year before, but the talent and experience were very different.

I would agree with you if we only compared their first year but Holtmann's OSU has no talent this year outside of the big kid. Make no mistake about it, we have more talent on our roster than OSU does this year. Archie is the better recruiter but Holtmann is bringing in a top ten class this year. I just have hard time not taking Holtmann at this junction.

[rcbowla 6,750]

Comparing Holtmann's and Archie's first 2 years is not really fair. Yes, Archie did not do a great job, and the team should have been better, but Holtmann took over a team that was full of solid upperclassmen. Indiana plays 1 senior, 2 juniors (who both missed a lot of time this year), and the rest sophomores and freshmen. They took over teams that had performed poorly the year before, but the talent and experience were very different.

I could argue that the talent on IU's roster was better than OSU's today. Idk if it's the players, the coaches or what but so far this isn't working out. People think differently and that's fine but if this is acceptable then I fear the program may have fallen too far. I didn't expect a NC or even conference championship or anything like that but expecting to get to the tournament comfortably wasn't too extreme imo. Teams do more with less than IU these last 3 seasons and that is the frustrating thing for me. I just want to be invested in March Madness again.

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[A.j. Nigh 1,000]

19 minutes ago, JHoosier914 said:

And if it happens, that's okay.  Wherever he goes, he is likely choosing it, in part or in whole, because it feels like the best place/step towards his goal of playing in the NBA.  I can't fault a kid for that.  I might not like his choice, but I respect his decision to make it.

Yea agree, just saying that it would be easier to swallow if we had won and were dancing.

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

At the time it was considered a bigger project by most. 
Holtmann has done more with less two years in a row 

Last year's OSU team had 3 upperclassman starters who had been top 100 recruits, plus Kaleb Wesson, who was a top 80 freshman. Bates-Diop ended up as Big 10 player of the year. That's a very good roster. The team chemistry had been a disaster the year before, and they lost 5 transfers, so it looked worse than it was. They were low on depth, but the guys they had were good.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

1 minute ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

Last year's OSU team had 3 upperclassman starters who had been top 100 recruits, plus Kaleb Wesson, who was a top 80 freshman. Bates-Diop ended up as Big 10 player of the year. That's a very good roster. The team chemistry had been a disaster the year before, and they lost 5 transfers, so it looked worse than it was. They were low on depth, but the guys they had were good.


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Holtmann had a lot less time to whip the team into shape and did a better job in 3 months than Archie has in 24

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

Holtmann had a lot less time to whip the team into shape and did a better job in 3 months than Archie has in 24

Maybe. I think Holtmann is really good. I'm happy with some of what I see from Archie. It's just that their tasks have been different. Holtmann has done well with Matta's players. His players were more developed and he could focus on implementing his system. He also has studs coming in next year, so I expect OSU to continue to be good. Archie has had to focus on both player development and teaching a completely new system. It's more complicated, and results have not been great yet, but I think we need to let his first recruiting class at least develop a little bit before declaring a winner.


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[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

Holtmann had a lot less time to whip the team into shape and did a better job in 3 months than Archie has in 24

In year 2, their programs are essentially in the same place. They're both bubble teams. Let's see how they do from here.


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[Hoosier Guy 7,472]

Ohio State clearly had more talent last season. IU had more talent this season

[Hoosier Guy 7,472]

I’m very disappointed with this season. However, I’m not going to be some idiot and rampage on social media

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

1 minute ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

In year 2, their programs are essentially in the same place. They're both bubble teams. Let's see how they do from here.


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They were on the bubble with a lot less talent. And didn’t they only have 8 scholarship players Holtmanns first year?  

[RaceToTheTop 23,763]

12 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

Last year's OSU team had 3 upperclassman starters who had been top 100 recruits, plus Kaleb Wesson, who was a top 80 freshman. Bates-Diop ended up as Big 10 player of the year. That's a very good roster. The team chemistry had been a disaster the year before, and they lost 5 transfers, so it looked worse than it was. They were low on depth, but the guys they had were good.


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Don't use facts.

[hoosierbgh 1,227]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Because it’s not marginally better lol. 

You seem to think that losing in the sweet sixteen is similar to missing the tourney. 

In point of fact Purdue lost in the round of 64 most of those few extra trips to the tourney, which is the very definition of marginal where expectations at IU are concerned. Making the tournament to lose in the first or second round a few times is better, which I acknowledged, but it is not enough better to actually matter which you seemingly can't acknowledge. 

 

 

[coonhounds 8,693]

I could argue that the talent on IU's roster was better than OSU's today. Idk if it's the players, the coaches or what but so far this isn't working out. People think differently and that's fine but if this is acceptable then I fear the program may have fallen too far. I didn't expect a NC or even conference championship or anything like that but expecting to get to the tournament comfortably wasn't too extreme imo. Teams do more with less than IU these last 3 seasons and that is the frustrating thing for me. I just want to be invested in March Madness again.

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This season is not ok by far. I would say most logical fans are extremely disappointed. This isn't Indiana basketball by far. I would say if you step away from the message board and got out in the general public the majority would be fed up and call this unacceptable

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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

7 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

In point of fact Purdue lost in the round of 64 most of those few extra trips to the tourney, which is the very definition of marginal where expectations at IU are concerned. Making the tournament to lose in the first or second round a few times is better, which I acknowledged, but it is not enough better to actually matter which you seemingly can't acknowledge. 

 

 

You are basically that Meme with the guy pointing to his head. “You can’t lose in the tourney if you don’t make the tourney”

Purdue has only lost first round twice in that timeframe btw. So keep making stuff up I guess 

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

We are far less talented than most assume. Many Hoosier fans thought Morgan was a lock first team all B1G when he was in fact honorable mention. Then we act like the injuries didnt make a difference.

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

Today we were back to just a total lack of leadership in a win or go home tourney game. Look what senior Morgan did for us vs senior Palmer is doing for Nebraska in a similar situation.

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

They were on the bubble with a lot less talent. And didn’t they only have 8 scholarship players Holtmanns first year?  

I agree that they had less talent this year. They also had more experience. Both matter. That's not excusing the way the season went for IU because it should have been better, but I don't think the roster discrepancy was that stark when you factor in that OSU plays a lot of seniors. Experience can overcome talent a lot of times.

They may have only had 8 scholarship players, but the ones they had were really good. Most teams only play 8 guys anyway. And Dakich ended up being a lot better than people expected. Holtmann certainly deserves plenty of credit for their great season last year, but he had a lot of good, experienced pieces to play with


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[Uspshoosier 44,263]

Holtmann was a good hire for OSU at the time. His first 2 years have proven that it was a great hire. However he was never coming to IU. Snow said back during IU’s hiring that he didn’t know who they would get but he knew one that would turn them down in a heartbeat. Wanted no part of a pressure cooker job and more importantly that because of his love and respect for Butler he wouldn’t take another job in Indiana
Maybe Holtmann turns out to have the better career but that career was never going to be at IU


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[IUHoosier5 1,366]

Holtmann was a good hire for OSU at the time. His first 2 years have proven that it was a great hire. However he was never coming to IU. Snow said back during IU’s hiring that he didn’t know who they would get but he knew one that would turn them down in a heartbeat. Wanted no part of a pressure cooker job and more importantly that because of his love and respect for Butler he wouldn’t take another job in Indiana

Maybe Holtmann turns out to have the better career but that career was never going to be at IU

 

 

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I sure hope he does not have the better career. Screw Ohio State.

 

Edit: So far he owns Archie. Hopefully that begins to change..soon.