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IU Hoosier41

Purdue at Indiana Game Thread - 7:00pm ESPN2

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I am chuckling this morning about how butt-hurt the PU fans are about the F-You chants to Haarms. ... For the record, I did not like the chant. I think we should be above that (I think we should be above a lot of things that we aren't, however). ... But when you cheer "IU sucks" before every game, regardless of whom you're playing, you've pretty much cornered the market on classless, and give up the right to be so pained. And it's not like similar chants like that have never happened in Mackey... I specifically recall watching the Music City Bowl in December. As PU kicked off, I could hear the fans chant "IU sucks" on my TV. You're playing Auburn in a bowl game, and you're worried about us? As much as I detest Purdue, I really didn't care who won -- until I heard that. Then, I was in Auburn's corner big-time. To see them get annihilated was very sweet. 

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I'm a believer in experience and learning lessons.   We'll miss Morgan.  No doubt.  We will not miss Fitzner or McRoberts; and I'm not convinced we'll miss Romeo very much.  That will be unpopular and I know unconventional; but the way he's being used isn't good for the team and isn't good for him.   At this point in his career; he needs the ball as close to the rim as possible so he can get downhill more often before help can get there.
I'm going out on a limb and saying there will be other new faces and at least 1 will be a shooter. Franklin can make the 3, as can Hunter; even if he's not that pure shooter we need.  So I'd expect 3 kids next season who can make that shot, added to Durham and Phinisee; and I think that roster will look far different than this one.
Phinisee, Durham, Hunter, Davis, and Smith (yeah..I'm on his bandwagon until he pushes me off simply because of the potential I see) is a solid starting 5 assuming improvement - but I don't want to hear it.  I want to see it.    Then Jackson-Davis, Forrester, Franklin, "new shooter," and Thompson off the bench, plus whoever stays (I don't care whether Green, Moore, or Anderson stick around)?   I think that's enough to have some hope; but Archie and staff need to get heavily into player development, and that's more than ball handling and shooting.   There's a toughness that needs to develop.  A situational attitude of winning that needs to be instilled and the players held accountable to it.   I have hope....even without Brooks or any idea who "new shooter" is.   =)

A great basketball mind like you Old Friend is sticking with Smith ? That surprises me. This kid and his family will never get it. Yes he’s has hops, but if you can’t hang on to the ball what good is the athleticism? You either have good hands or you don’t. Your either mentally tough or your not. Both him and Green both need to get it or get out.


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Free Jake!!

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17 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:


A great basketball mind like you Old Friend is sticking with Smith ? That surprises me. This kid and his family will never get it. Yes he’s has hops, but if you can’t hang on to the ball what good is the athleticism? You either have good hands or you don’t. Your either mentally tough or your not. Both him and Green both need to get it or get out.


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Free Jake!!

I'm no great mind..just been coaching a long time and I'm opinionated as hell.  

I'm sticking with potential.  Kid was recruited by a different coach to a different system; and I saw enough last season to give me some hope there's something that will click.  I don't disagree with what you said....I'm just not yet saying "he'll never get it."   I gave Green the same mental courtesy before the season, even though I couldn't stand him last year.  I guess I'm the same on Smith.  He may prove that a fool's errand; but I'm not giving up on him yet.

Edit :  Just read some of the above posts and I may now be leaning the other way on him.  I'm nothing if not fickle.  And opinionated.

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1 minute ago, Old Friend said:

I'm no great mind..just been coaching a long time and I'm opinionated as hell.  

I'm sticking with potential.  Kid was recruited by a different coach to a different system; and I saw enough last season to give me some hope there's something that will click.  I don't disagree with what you said....I'm just not yet saying "he'll never get it."   I gave Green the same mental courtesy before the season, even though I couldn't stand him last year.  I guess I'm the same on Smith.  He may prove that a fool's errand; but I'm not giving up on him yet.

 

No way ... never noticed that about you Old Friend!  :)

 

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26 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’m as frustrated as anyone but name a coach that comes in, is told he HAS to retain and recruit players that don’t fit his style of play whatsoever. Then he has the most extreme case of roster availability ive ever witnessed. 

To top this off, the players he was told he must retain, are causing turmoil inside the locker room. 

Deron Davis is obviously the most important piece to helping balance our offense. How’s his health been all season. 

My emotions run wild after these losses but then I sit back and look at the situation as a whole and I can’t think of more than MAYBE 1-2 coaches who I believe can make this season a success. Do I think Archie should be getting more out of what he has? Yes! But I’m not familiar with the behind the scenes issues this team is facing and they matter. 

I hold out hope in knowing that he turned Dayton into a consistent winner with time. Also, it goes a long way with me, that the Dayton fans miss him and didn’t want to see him go. They are one of the nations more knowledgeable fan bases. I trust their experience with Archie. 

This season just needs to be thrown in the dumpster, forgotten and never to be spoken about ever again. Cut the tumors out, medicate and allow the young coach the space to fix the issues that his predecessor placed at his feet. I’d be completely satisfied and supportive if Archie got rid of a FEW players and started with a new clay. This approach won Villanova 2 national titles in 3 years. 

Ill reserve my judgement on Archie until the end of 4 years. Some don’t have that patience. I question whether I can make it that long but I’m gonna give it a go. Because it’s the sensible thing to do. 

We have the weight of 30 years of mediocrity to shake off. It’s time to realize that this isn’t happening in short order. We aren’t a program that guys are going to leave historic NBA franchises or already successful and established programs for. Not happening. The sooner we come to terms with this fact, the sooner we can contribute to our reestablishment as an elite program. Otherwise just piss and moan and be miserable with your existence. I love Indiana Basketball but my life is completely fulfilled regardless of the number in the W column. 

I’ll go on a limb and say Archie Miller answers the bell In year 3. He’s a proven commodity in his time as a HC. This season is the definition of an outlier, as it relates to his body of work. 

I think this and Strom's post are the two best I've read in a while. 

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1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

I'm no great mind..just been coaching a long time and I'm opinionated as hell.  

I'm sticking with potential.  Kid was recruited by a different coach to a different system; and I saw enough last season to give me some hope there's something that will click.  I don't disagree with what you said....I'm just not yet saying "he'll never get it."   I gave Green the same mental courtesy before the season, even though I couldn't stand him last year.  I guess I'm the same on Smith.  He may prove that a fool's errand; but I'm not giving up on him yet.

Edit :  Just read some of the above posts and I may now be leaning the other way on him.  I'm nothing if not fickle.  And opinionated.

I've done my share of coaching throughout the years too, albeit football.  And this is more philosophical but I've seen my share of kids come through with attitude problems, especially when being built up by the parents.  My take on this is the parents will always win out.  There's more history there and trying to turn a selfish player with potential into a team player has never gone well for me.  Often, you think you've gotten through only to see the player return to the old habits that are years in the making where you have one or two seasons to try and change.  Then again, the problem could've been ME! I'm no great mind either.

My point is, I never have much faith in this outlook. Not saying it's impossible, I've personally not seen a good history of seeing the change.

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I've done my share of coaching throughout the years too, albeit football.  And this is more philosophical but I've seen my share of kids come through with attitude problems, especially when being built up by the parents.  My take on this is the parents will always win out.  There's more history there and trying to turn a selfish player with potential into a team player has never gone well for me.  Often, you think you've gotten through only to see the player return to the old habits that are years in the making where you have one or two seasons to try and change.  Then again, the problem could've been ME! I'm no great mind either.
My point is, I never have much faith in this outlook. Not saying it's impossible, I've personally not seen a good history of seeing the change.

I believe this is the case in more than just sport. I’ve had the same philosophies in the work environment. I can’t fix lazy, in the military you can to some extent, but I can help with ignorance. I’ll take a kid 10 times out of 10 who lives that job (or sport) over an intelligent, albeit lazy, kid. I’ve seen many kids fail because they were “superior” to the “dumber” kids who worked their tail off.

In general, at a place like IU, you need to find the kids that are gifted AND willing to work their backsides off.

It wouldn’t hurt to have a coach with the ability to beat you with his and your players.


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1 hour ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’m as frustrated as anyone but name a coach that comes in, is told he HAS to retain and recruit players that don’t fit his style of play whatsoever. Then he has the most extreme case of roster availability ive ever witnessed. 

To top this off, the players he was told he must retain, are causing turmoil inside the locker room. 

Deron Davis is obviously the most important piece to helping balance our offense. How’s his health been all season. 

My emotions run wild after these losses but then I sit back and look at the situation as a whole and I can’t think of more than MAYBE 1-2 coaches who I believe can make this season a success. Do I think Archie should be getting more out of what he has? Yes! But I’m not familiar with the behind the scenes issues this team is facing and they matter. 

I hold out hope in knowing that he turned Dayton into a consistent winner with time. Also, it goes a long way with me, that the Dayton fans miss him and didn’t want to see him go. They are one of the nations more knowledgeable fan bases. I trust their experience with Archie. 

This season just needs to be thrown in the dumpster, forgotten and never to be spoken about ever again. Cut the tumors out, medicate and allow the young coach the space to fix the issues that his predecessor placed at his feet. I’d be completely satisfied and supportive if Archie got rid of a FEW players and started with a new clay. This approach won Villanova 2 national titles in 3 years. 

Ill reserve my judgement on Archie until the end of 4 years. Some don’t have that patience. I question whether I can make it that long but I’m gonna give it a go. Because it’s the sensible thing to do. 

We have the weight of 30 years of mediocrity to shake off. It’s time to realize that this isn’t happening in short order. We aren’t a program that guys are going to leave historic NBA franchises or already successful and established programs for. Not happening. The sooner we come to terms with this fact, the sooner we can contribute to our reestablishment as an elite program. Otherwise just piss and moan and be miserable with your existence. I love Indiana Basketball but my life is completely fulfilled regardless of the number in the W column. 

I’ll go on a limb and say Archie Miller answers the bell In year 3. He’s a proven commodity in his time as a HC. This season is the definition of an outlier, as it relates to his body of work. 

I totally feel the same! I believe the Archie's worst year at Dayton was year two. Anyone?

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1 hour ago, theriverpilot said:

I've done my share of coaching throughout the years too, albeit football.  And this is more philosophical but I've seen my share of kids come through with attitude problems, especially when being built up by the parents.  My take on this is the parents will always win out.  There's more history there and trying to turn a selfish player with potential into a team player has never gone well for me.  Often, you think you've gotten through only to see the player return to the old habits that are years in the making where you have one or two seasons to try and change.  Then again, the problem could've been ME! I'm no great mind either.

My point is, I never have much faith in this outlook. Not saying it's impossible, I've personally not seen a good history of seeing the change.

I would agree with you absolutely when parents are involved and pulling strings.  Absolutely.   If I hadn't seen what I did a year ago, I wouldn't have the thoughts I do.  Maybe a fool's errand, but I'm not giving up on him yet...unless the attitude problem is as real as some have stated earlier.  That would change my mind.   I do think people can change.  Especially young people.  Many don't.  No question.

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1 hour ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’m as frustrated as anyone but name a coach that comes in, is told he HAS to retain and recruit players that don’t fit his style of play whatsoever. Then he has the most extreme case of roster availability ive ever witnessed. 

To top this off, the players he was told he must retain, are causing turmoil inside the locker room. 

Deron Davis is obviously the most important piece to helping balance our offense. How’s his health been all season. 

My emotions run wild after these losses but then I sit back and look at the situation as a whole and I can’t think of more than MAYBE 1-2 coaches who I believe can make this season a success. Do I think Archie should be getting more out of what he has? Yes! But I’m not familiar with the behind the scenes issues this team is facing and they matter. 

I hold out hope in knowing that he turned Dayton into a consistent winner with time. Also, it goes a long way with me, that the Dayton fans miss him and didn’t want to see him go. They are one of the nations more knowledgeable fan bases. I trust their experience with Archie. 

This season just needs to be thrown in the dumpster, forgotten and never to be spoken about ever again. Cut the tumors out, medicate and allow the young coach the space to fix the issues that his predecessor placed at his feet. I’d be completely satisfied and supportive if Archie got rid of a FEW players and started with a new clay. This approach won Villanova 2 national titles in 3 years. 

Ill reserve my judgement on Archie until the end of 4 years. Some don’t have that patience. I question whether I can make it that long but I’m gonna give it a go. Because it’s the sensible thing to do. 

We have the weight of 30 years of mediocrity to shake off. It’s time to realize that this isn’t happening in short order. We aren’t a program that guys are going to leave historic NBA franchises or already successful and established programs for. Not happening. The sooner we come to terms with this fact, the sooner we can contribute to our reestablishment as an elite program. Otherwise just piss and moan and be miserable with your existence. I love Indiana Basketball but my life is completely fulfilled regardless of the number in the W column. 

I’ll go on a limb and say Archie Miller answers the bell In year 3. He’s a proven commodity in his time as a HC. This season is the definition of an outlier, as it relates to his body of work. 

Agree

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You guys say what you want about Nojel Eastern. He isn't the most skilled basketball player in the world but that kid plays hard. I would take him on my team any freaking day of the week. If you think otherwise then I'm at a loss of words for ya pal. 

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3 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

I am chuckling this morning about how butt-hurt the PU fans are about the F-You chants to Haarms. ... For the record, I did not like the chant. I think we should be above that (I think we should be above a lot of things that we aren't, however). ... But when you cheer "IU sucks" before every game, regardless of whom you're playing, you've pretty much cornered the market on classless, and give up the right to be so pained. And it's not like similar chants like that have never happened in Mackey... I specifically recall watching the Music City Bowl in December. As PU kicked off, I could hear the fans chant "IU sucks" on my TV. You're playing Auburn in a bowl game, and you're worried about us? As much as I detest Purdue, I really didn't care who won -- until I heard that. Then, I was in Auburn's corner big-time. To see them get annihilated was very sweet. 

I loved the chant and would've happily joined in if I was at the game. 

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1 hour ago, LamarCheeks said:

Very similar out here in Virginia. ... Bennett was 16-15 and 15-16 in his first two seasons and had some guys transfer out early during his tenure. The fans -- though not as crazy as ours -- were concerned. Look at where they are now. Yes, I know they haven't reached a Final Four and became the first 16 to lose to a 1 last season, but nobody in their right minds wouldn't trade our past 6-7 seasons for U.Va.'s. And I believe they will make it to a Final Four soon -- if not this season. And Bennett was about Archie's age when he took over that job. It took him time to implement his system. I have doubted Archie on more than on occasion, but I think if we let him see it though, we'll be in a good spot a few years down the road. And again, yes I know, we've been waiting for 30 years -- yada, yada, yada -- but nobody else was gonna come in here with the players we had and win 20-25 games a season these past two years. It just wasn't gonna happen. 

When does someone remind Devonte Green that he’s not nearly as good as he thinks he is? Each recruiting service unanimously had him well outside the top 100. They miss a few here and there but not most of the time. Also, his ONLY high D1 offer was from Indiana at a time where slinging mud against the wall and seeing what sticks was full throttle. I pray I never have to see him in an Indiana uniform again. Let him live vicariously off his brothers accomplishments at home in New York.

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50 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

You guys say what you want about Nojel Eastern. He isn't the most skilled basketball player in the world but that kid plays hard. I would take him on my team any freaking day of the week. If you think otherwise then I'm at a loss of words for ya pal. 

I feel like you can say this about nearly any Purdue player who contributes. Edwards is obviously a no-brainer. How bad do we need a Ryan Cline this year? As annoying as Haarms is to watch, we would love him if was on our roster and he would allow Juwan to play the 4. Same with Williams. I'd love to have an Eifert on our team. There are probably more, but that's who I can think of off the top of my head. 

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1 hour ago, yogisballin said:

You guys say what you want about Nojel Eastern. He isn't the most skilled basketball player in the world but that kid plays hard. I would take him on my team any freaking day of the week. If you think otherwise then I'm at a loss of words for ya pal. 

I agree he plays hard. He made a few really stupid fouls last night, but that might have been just part of the moment (rival game).

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