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IU Hoosier41

The Sky Is Not Falling, But our Fanbase however...

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19 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Tubby Smith won the SEC 5 times. Never won less than 22 games. Never missed the NCAA tourney. Never lost in the first round. Went to the Sweet 16 six times. Went to the Elite 8 four times, Final Four once and won a national title. Kentucky got bounced from the tourney his last two seasons after making the Elite 8 and got canned. They hired Billy Gillispie and he went 18-13 to the NCAA tourney and 22-14 to the NIT. He got fired. They then went out and through a ton of money at Calipari to get back to winning big. That’s what we need. We have to spend the money for a big time coach.


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Tubby Smith took over an NCAA runner-up. That made a big difference. Archie took over an 18-16 team ... I think Gillispie got fired for his off-court behavior (drinking) as much as what happened on the court. In addition to that, he was somewhat easy to fire. For some reason, at nearly all his jobs, he never signs his contract, so essentially, there was no buyout that UK had to honor. He did settle for $3 million, but that wasn't a huge payout in the grand scheme of things ... Archie is the 10th-highest paid coach in the country. How much more money do you want to spend? If we fire Archie now, we owe him about $17 million. 

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Has anybody here ever heard of a rhetorical question? 

How the hell am I supposed to know how much we should pay a basketball coach? Right now, we've made Archie the 10th-highest paid coach in the country. He's making $3.2 or $3.35 million (I've seen both figures). I think that's plenty. How much more should a school spend? 

Larry Krystkowiak (Utah) is No. 8 at $3.39 million? Is it worth it to pay him that much? Ask Utes fans. 

Would you want to be Ohio State and pay Holtmann $7.15 million a year? That's more than double Archie's salary. Is Ohio State in any better position than us because they're paying that much

 

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Has anybody here ever heard of a rhetorical question? 
How the hell am I supposed to know how much we should pay a basketball coach? Right now, we've made Archie the 10th-highest paid coach in the country. He's making $3.2 or $3.35 million (I've seen both figures). I think that's enough. 
Would you want to be Ohio State and pay Holtmann $7.15 million a year? That's more than double Archie's salary. Is Ohio State in any better position than us because they're paying that much? 

Holtmann’s is misleading that’s also including his buyout from butler I believe


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I've been relatively quiet this season.  Many factors play into that outside of basketball, but the primary saying of  "If you don't have anything nice to say..."  applies here.   I have a couple thoughts I think are important to remember as we move forward.
  • We were never as good as we thought we were.  Romeo is an elite player, that gave us hope.  Our 3 game stretch with close nail biting wins was exciting and gave us something to get behind.  In reality, that ranking was the worst thing that could happen to us.  It gave us too much hope.
  • College basketball and football transition are tough.  ESPECIALLY when your coaching style is vastly different than the predecessor.  We've all seen Crean's comments about his situation at Georgia, Archie could make the same comments here.  Our players are good, I'm not knocking them at all, but they are built for a different system.
  • I'm a firm believer in giving College coaches a FREE 4 year pass and getting critical in year 5.   It takes time to create YOUR culture and "unbrainwash" a previous culture for lack of a better term.  This is well documented with the coaches that don't have instant success.
  • Even if you don't agree with the 4 year pass, you have to in this situation.  Indiana fired Tom Crean who was coming off Big Ten Championships and Sweet 16 appearances.  Then you hire Archie and don't give him a fair shake and get rid of him early.  What coach in their right mind would sign up to be the next coach at Indiana?  It's career suicide.  Nothing can happen with Archie until after year 5.
  • Archie was an incredible coach at Dayton.  The man didn't forget how to coach.  Guarantee he's more frustrated than all of us are.
  • Our fanbase isn't better or worse than any other fanbase.  Every team has passionate fans that air out their grievances over Twitter and message boards.  Pick any school and lose 10 out of 11 and you'll see this exact reaction or worse.  I will say seeing how empty Assembly Hall is EVERY game is more troubling to me than anything else.   That isn't helping.
  • Keion Brooks - I don't believe it's over for Indiana.  This skid hasn't helped our cause, but it's not a deal breaker.  HIgh School players put a major emphasis on who they will be playing with, style of play, facilities and most importantly the impact on their future.  I went to Indiana because I wanted to be a part of the Kelley School to advance my career after college.  Prospects are looking at Indiana and what they can offer to get the to the next level.  That is their goal, College is their stepping stone to achieve that goal.  At the end of the day, Keion will make the best decision for him and his family.  If that's to Kentucky, then I'm happy for him and hope he succeeds.  Him choosing another school isn't bashing Indiana.  It's making an informed decision that is in his best interest.
In conclusion,  the product we've seen on the court is embarrassing.  It's a total lack of confidence from the entire team, no grit.  Fight or Flight?????  We've got that questions answered.  All that being said, I'm still going to watch every game, it's the punishment I still look forward too.  The highs will get higher, I pray the lows won't get any lower.  I'm still a Hoosier.   You guys are still Hoosiers.  The road ahead will get better.   Just RELAX.  
I am for giving him four years but a four year pass? If he misses the tourney next year serious questions will have to be asked. You cannot simply miss three years in a row imo and be given a pass.

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6 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

Has anybody here ever heard of a rhetorical question? 

How the hell am I supposed to know how much we should pay a basketball coach? Right now, we've made Archie the 10th-highest paid coach in the country. He's making $3.2 or $3.35 million (I've seen both figures). I think that's plenty. How much more should a school spend? 

Larry Krystkowiak (Utah) is No. 8 at $3.39 million? Is it worth it to pay him that much? Ask Utes fans. 

Would you want to be Ohio State and pay Holtmann $7.15 million a year? That's more than double Archie's salary. Is Ohio State in any better position than us because they're paying that much

 

Holtmans first year definitely included money for his Butler buyout. His actual annual pay package is a similar amount to Archie’s.

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We need both player changes and assistant coach changes. Players who can shoot the outside shot and player leaders who can help motivate these guys. We dont have either of those on this team. Assistants i question what they even do for us. I know archie is responsible for this team but an assistant can make or break you and we are breaking.

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 A four year pass? Seriously? That is nuts. As for Assembly Hall being empty, I say good. Poor attendance should send a message to the higher ups that the current state of affairs is unacceptable.
Crean only got a year year honeymoon. Four is absurd. He should have us in the ncaa by year three.

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Crean only got a year year honeymoon. Four is absurd. He should have us in the ncaa by year three.

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Just think if Fred Glass hadn’t been convinced that Crean got a 4 year honeymoon.

We fire Crean in Year 3 and hire Brad Stevens:. and we still get Zeller.

Instead we are in this mess years later.


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Just think if Fred Glass hadn’t been convinced that Crean got a 4 year honeymoon.

We fire Crean in Year 3 and hire Brad Stevens:. and we still get Zeller.

Instead we are in this mess years later.


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Creans third year was terrible. Only zeller saved him though fred probably woyld have kept him anyway another year.

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Think back to sampsons first year 06-07. We won 20 or 21 games with dj white and earl calloway and a bunch of fill in type players. One thing about that team they played hard. Was not very good on offense but played good defense.

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Sampson could of had an incredible career at iu if he had realized to win at iu he did not need to cheat. I think he got matt roth and elston so he was starting to get it but it was too late. The first class killed him. I liked the hire but i was naive to his ability not to change.

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I said early this year that we were going to have issues shooting, both perimeter and definitely the 3. We simply don't have the shooters, and that likely doesn't change next year. 

That said, I did not expect much this year, but I did expect more than 12th in the Big10 given we had Morgan and Langford. The injury bug hit us hard the first half, so I do give Archie some slack. 

I've seen some great performances, gutty/gritty performances, some understandable performances (due to injury), and some real duds. In short, there's a reason to be optimistic with Archie, and also a reason to question.

I'm giving him another year. Until then, I'll just try to enjoy.

But I do agree, if Archie doesn't make it, we need to be willing to spend in tune with expectations of the program. Not just on the coach, but also on facilities. There's only a few coaches I'd throw the kitchen sink at. 

For those that want a new coach, and are willing to spend top dollars, who are you going to go after (that would leave), and how much are you willing to spend on them.

Edited by Irish YJ

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