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Hold on.

What can a upperclassmen QB do that a freshman couldn’t? Come on now.

Allen hired a new OC because he knows he’s not an offensive expert, and he knew his old offense wasn’t working. Your question may be more accurately asked as, “what could a senior QB accomplish in his 4th year with the same OC that he couldn’t accomplish in his first year?”

My answer is still COME ON NOW. We’ll see, but I’d bet my money that a senior QB will be used more effectively and play more effectively than the freshman version of themselves.


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Better question is what is Glass’ vision of the football team and what is Allen’s? From what I see, there is no vision. Under Wilson it was offense. And an offense that went no huddle, as one of the fastest in the nation and put points on the board. Allen is a defensive guy, but hires an OC that goes no huddle and quicker.. but at the same time you want strong, tough and stingy defense.. they don’t mix very well. Especially with such a low talent level. I’d understand if Allen wanted to go the smash mouth style. Huddle up, monster sized offensive line and run it down people’s throats. Like a very very poor Alabama.


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5 hours ago, finky said:

When the University of Central Florida has a better program and team for 10 consecutive years, and you are in the big ten....you aren't exactly at the top of your game.

Absolutely true- as it has been for pretty much my entire lifetime. IU didn't just start sucking so the better question is WHY has it always been bad? Short answer is because the fans and admin have accepted it. Changing an entire culture isn't easy. I'm not positive that Allen is the guy that will take IU to unprecedented heights, but I am confident he is a high character guy that loves IU and wants to do it the right way. He is upgrading the talent and slowly seems to be improving the on-field performance. Also I am not too sure there is anyone better for the job. Even if there is bringing him in would require another rebuild of a 3-4yrs to make it into his image. History shows that still isn't likely to improve the results much. 

I guess my point is an entrenched problem like IU football isn't likely to see a quick fix, so why not be patient?

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Totally agree that a Sr Penix would be a better option that a Fr Penix - but my point stands that it won’t be Allen doing the mentoring - it will be whoever Allen is employing at OC and QB coach. That was the point of my original question.

I’m not understanding your point then. Head Coaches aren’t experts in coaching and developing every position player. That’s why they hire OCs and position coaches. Allen is a HC with a defensive background, so I’d imagine he’ll have very little impact on anyone on the offensive side of the ball other than through his overall decisions.




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9 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:


I’m not understanding your point then. Head Coaches aren’t experts in coaching and developing every position player. That’s why they hire OCs and position coaches. Allen is a HC with a defensive background, so I’d imagine he’ll have very little impact on anyone on the offensive side of the ball other than through his overall decisions.




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So we agree then that Allen will have little impact on QB development. Seeing as how this is a Glass thread I’ll bring it back to him.

By all reports the issues with the IU athletics go above him so don’t misconstrue that I’m advocating for his dismissal, but I can’t get behind the way Allen’s hiring went down. It’d be a hard sell for me for someone to say the BoT told Glass to not conduct a coaching search after he fired Wilson less than a year after giving him a 6 year extension, which the BoT would only approve not plant the idea in Glass’s head to offer. He let go of the most successful football coach IU’s had in 20 plus years, who made back to back bowl games and promoted his DC because he didn’t want to lose him? That’s no way to make a hire in a Power 5 conference. Glass couldn’t sell anyone on the job when the program was trending upwards - even if it’s a small uptick? I say back to you “Come On Man”.

 

And you may respond that Glass had to fire Wilson after the reports of player abuse, and I’d tend to agree, but the relationship between he and Glass was already rocky by all reports all the way back to his drunken episode his first year on campus, so he had information on why that extension may not be warranted. He chose to do so anyways and not even a full season later Allen’s the interim coach at the Foster Farms Bowl.

 

Why Allen, Glass, Archie are above criticism on this board is beyond me but just my take. I’ve heard changing the culture with IUFB and athletics in general - one of the biggest ways of doing so is to stop accepting mediocrity in my opinion. Know this has been perhaps an incoherent response but forgive me if I expect more from IU athletics. An AD in a power 5 conference will always have the success of its revenue generating sports as part of his/her measuring stick. And through 11 seasons Glass has come up short. I’m thrilled to see Allen’s success on the recruiting trail but at some point that needs to translate to wins. I’m hopeful Archie will get it turned around as I wanted him as coach if Donovan wasn’t an option and I have no reason to believe he was. Now I’m rambling so I’m going to sign off now - but just my take on things. Read this forum daily but I can’t get on board with the idea that Glass is somehow above criticism when there is clear evidence to warrant some - mainly his IUFB and IUBB records over 11 seasons and his issuing of extensions like they are Skittles.

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42 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

So we agree then that Allen will have little impact on QB development. Seeing as how this is a Glass thread I’ll bring it back to him.

By all reports the issues with the IU athletics go above him so don’t misconstrue that I’m advocating for his dismissal, but I can’t get behind the way Allen’s hiring went down. It’d be a hard sell for me for someone to say the BoT told Glass to not conduct a coaching search after he fired Wilson less than a year after giving him a 6 year extension, which the BoT would only approve not plant the idea in Glass’s head to offer. He let go of the most successful football coach IU’s had in 20 plus years, who made back to back bowl games and promoted his DC because he didn’t want to lose him? That’s no way to make a hire in a Power 5 conference. Glass couldn’t sell anyone on the job when the program was trending upwards - even if it’s a small uptick? I say back to you “Come On Man”.

 

And you may respond that Glass had to fire Wilson after the reports of player abuse, and I’d tend to agree, but the relationship between he and Glass was already rocky by all reports all the way back to his drunken episode his first year on campus, so he had information on why that extension may not be warranted. He chose to do so anyways and not even a full season later Allen’s the interim coach at the Foster Farms Bowl.

 

Why Allen, Glass, Archie are above criticism on this board is beyond me but just my take. I’ve heard changing the culture with IUFB and athletics in general - one of the biggest ways of doing so is to stop accepting mediocrity in my opinion. Know this has been perhaps an incoherent response but forgive me if I expect more from IU athletics. An AD in a power 5 conference will always have the success of its revenue generating sports as part of his/her measuring stick. And through 11 seasons Glass has come up short. I’m thrilled to see Allen’s success on the recruiting trail but at some point that needs to translate to wins. I’m hopeful Archie will get it turned around as I wanted him as coach if Donovan wasn’t an option and I have no reason to believe he was. Now I’m rambling so I’m going to sign off now - but just my take on things. Read this forum daily but I can’t get on board with the idea that Glass is somehow above criticism when there is clear evidence to warrant some - mainly his IUFB and IUBB records over 11 seasons and his issuing of extensions like they are Skittles.

I could read this thread 100 times and not find a single piece of evidence anyone said Glass is above criticism.  

I'd also like you to justify in any way "the basketball record" as having one thing to do with him and please refer to my timeline a few pages back.   Glass has nothing....absolutely zero to do with that, and he did what he had to do (took action) when he had to do it.  Same with football.

Donovan was not an option and he was never contacted.  He's just a name like Brad Stevens was just a name.  Timing with him never worked out.  Miller was a good hire, and the "immediate satisfaction" crowd can wait a year or two to see it.  

The IUFB record under Glass is 48-78 with 2 bowl games.  The record with coaches he hired save Wilson's first year when we had no players is 38-54.  Except for the Bill Mallory era, Indiana hasn't had that kind of record in its history, so I can't get on board with Glass being nearly as bad as some would have you believe. 

Oh, and here's a fact for you Tom Allen's record as head coach sits at 13-15.  .464%  A better % than any head coach in IU history. except Bill Mallory who was .466.   You can argue the hiring process (as far as anyone here knows, and I promise neither you nor I know the whole story) wasn't handled as well as it could have been, but that's a kiddie pool shallow way to view it.  There is so much more to that than simply "hiring Allen."  I get it.  The buck stops with Glass, but you're (the collective you) making judgments before all (and in fact MOST) of the evidence has been presented.   "Your honor...I present.... "     "GUILTY BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE LOOKS!"

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2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

I could read this thread 100 times and not find a single piece of evidence anyone said Glass is above criticism.  

I'd also like you to justify in any way "the basketball record" as having one thing to do with him and please refer to my timeline a few pages back.   Glass has nothing....absolutely zero to do with that, and he did what he had to do (took action) when he had to do it.  Same with football.

Donovan was not an option and he was never contacted.  He's just a name like Brad Stevens was just a name.  Timing with him never worked out.  Miller was a good hire, and the "immediate satisfaction" crowd can wait a year or two to see it.  

The IUFB record under Glass is 48-78 with 2 bowl games.  The record with coaches he hired save Wilson's first year when we had no players is 38-54.  Except for the Bill Mallory era, Indiana hasn't had that kind of record in its history, so I can't get on board with Glass being nearly as bad as some would have you believe. 

Oh, and here's a fact for you Tom Allen's record as head coach sits at 13-15.  .464%  A better % than any head coach in IU history. except Bill Mallory who was .466.   You can argue the hiring process (as far as anyone here knows, and I promise neither you nor I know the whole story) wasn't handled as well as it could have been, but that's a kiddie pool shallow way to view it.  There is so much more to that than simply "hiring Allen."  I get it.  The buck stops with Glass, but you're (the collective you) making judgments before all (and in fact MOST) of the evidence has been presented.   "Your honor...I present.... "     "GUILTY BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE LOOKS!"

Fair enough. We all want the same thing - IU success. I do enjoy reading for sure, as you seem to be in the know more than most so I enjoy the back and forth as long as you do, hopefully I didn’t say anything to out of line as your all caps at the end would have me believe I may have.

Like I said I wanted Archie from the get and I was one to drink the Cool-Aid with Crean at the beginning so I truly hope I’m not wrong again. I’m not naive enough to think that Glass has done a poor job as the facility upgrades alone are enough evidence to me that he’s got a vision for athletics moving forward and is getting IU back to a level playing field with the rest of the country. I just think in the Big10 there’s a way of conducting hirings and the Allen hiring left a bad taste in my mouth and I would love to eat my words on that. His attitude is infectious but when I look around the rest of the conference’s coaches I don’t see Allen as that enticing of an option for recruits of today, but winning goes along way with that and he very well may turn things around. Like I said I hope I’m wrong.

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This really has nothing to do with Fred Glass but since this seems to be a general IU bickering thread I figured I’d mention it.

IU announced they’re naming a building (informatics?) after our favorite former president, Myles Brand.

Judging by this and the other actions of the university, you really have to wonder if the disconnect between the administration and IU bourgeois, and the general IU affiliated populace is worse than initially thought.


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53 minutes ago, Hoosier Roots said:

This really has nothing to do with Fred Glass but since this seems to be a general IU bickering thread I figured I’d mention it.

IU announced they’re naming a building (informatics?) after our favorite former president, Myles Brand.

Judging by this and the other actions of the university, you really have to wonder if the disconnect between the administration and IU bourgeois, and the general IU affiliated populace is worse than initially thought.


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The world of academia is completely disconnected with the alumni, most definitely the "fan bases,"  and that's true for most places.  Academes live in a world of theory.  How things should be or could be.  Brand was that person.  A myopic academe who didn't understand what athletics mean to a university; almost identically to Michael McRobbie.  Sports are the window to the world and by far the best fundraising vehicle any university has.  They put Myles Brand's name on a building; but it's worth exactly zero.  The names and advertisements inside Assembly Hall dwarf anything the school of informatics can raise in a decade.    I'm quite sure McRobbie and his band of yes people quickly approved that namesake.  At some point, I'll pee on the lawn of that building and maybe I'll feel better.   

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On 9/22/2019 at 12:53 PM, kreigh8 said:

Fair enough. We all want the same thing - IU success. I do enjoy reading for sure, as you seem to be in the know more than most so I enjoy the back and forth as long as you do, hopefully I didn’t say anything to out of line as your all caps at the end would have me believe I may have.

Like I said I wanted Archie from the get and I was one to drink the Cool-Aid with Crean at the beginning so I truly hope I’m not wrong again. I’m not naive enough to think that Glass has done a poor job as the facility upgrades alone are enough evidence to me that he’s got a vision for athletics moving forward and is getting IU back to a level playing field with the rest of the country. I just think in the Big10 there’s a way of conducting hirings and the Allen hiring left a bad taste in my mouth and I would love to eat my words on that. His attitude is infectious but when I look around the rest of the conference’s coaches I don’t see Allen as that enticing of an option for recruits of today, but winning goes along way with that and he very well may turn things around. Like I said I hope I’m wrong.

No!  Not at all.  That was for affect.  Nothing more.   I'm "in the know" more than some, not as much as others...I've been around the block w IU Athletics and there are names you know that I've played golf with or see on a regular basis; but others are far closer than I am.  

Truth serum?  I know Fred Glass and the man's brilliant.   He's a bigger IU fan than anyone here and nobody wants to win more than he does.  This thread was created a long time ago, and I have never understood it because any problems IU has go way above his purview.  I didn't love Allen's hiring process either; but I DO know others were contacted.   I know for a fact a few weren't interested, and Glass felt we needed to fill the void to maintain what momentum we had at the time; Allen had shown to be an effective coordinator, so he was hired.  I still say the overall and general direction is positive, even if "winning" may be defined differently to different subsets of people.

The truth is basketball will always drive the bus at Indiana, and I believe almost unequivocally that Glass got this one right, despite other coaches who some people like more.   I need no more evidence than the focus he put on Rob Phinisee, who I've loved as a player since he was a sophomore at McCutchen.  I love his "no BS" way of doing things, and I love his inside-out recruiting style.   I think getting Geronimo will end up being a HUGE out of state coup; and I think he'll get about whoever he wants from Indiana.  He'll miss on some, but he'll hit on plenty.   

Yep.  We both want the same thing.  Go IU!

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On 9/22/2019 at 12:38 PM, Old Friend said:

I could read this thread 100 times and not find a single piece of evidence anyone said Glass is above criticism.  

I'd also like you to justify in any way "the basketball record" as having one thing to do with him and please refer to my timeline a few pages back.   Glass has nothing....absolutely zero to do with that, and he did what he had to do (took action) when he had to do it.  Same with football.

Donovan was not an option and he was never contacted.  He's just a name like Brad Stevens was just a name.  Timing with him never worked out.  Miller was a good hire, and the "immediate satisfaction" crowd can wait a year or two to see it.  

The IUFB record under Glass is 48-78 with 2 bowl games.  The record with coaches he hired save Wilson's first year when we had no players is 38-54.  Except for the Bill Mallory era, Indiana hasn't had that kind of record in its history, so I can't get on board with Glass being nearly as bad as some would have you believe. 

Oh, and here's a fact for you Tom Allen's record as head coach sits at 13-15.  .464%  A better % than any head coach in IU history. except Bill Mallory who was .466.   You can argue the hiring process (as far as anyone here knows, and I promise neither you nor I know the whole story) wasn't handled as well as it could have been, but that's a kiddie pool shallow way to view it.  There is so much more to that than simply "hiring Allen."  I get it.  The buck stops with Glass, but you're (the collective you) making judgments before all (and in fact MOST) of the evidence has been presented.   "Your honor...I present.... "     "GUILTY BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY HE LOOKS!"

Just curious, but if Donovan was never contacted, why didn't the AD or athletic department dispel the rumors? I mean, when fans think they are getting Donovan and then we end up with Archie, it kind of leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. I was listening to the radio and the host was saying former IU players were excited because even they thought Donovan was about to sign a contract. Like how did that rumor not get squashed?

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9 hours ago, Hoosier Roots said:

This really has nothing to do with Fred Glass but since this seems to be a general IU bickering thread I figured I’d mention it.

IU announced they’re naming a building (informatics?) after our favorite former president, Myles Brand.

Judging by this and the other actions of the university, you really have to wonder if the disconnect between the administration and IU bourgeois, and the general IU affiliated populace is worse than initially thought.


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If IU did not receive a generous donation for the naming rights of that building, then what an absolute mistake.

 

The building naming rights are worth at least a few million. That money could have gone to scholarships, campus improvements, etc. 

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Just curious, but if Donovan was never contacted, why didn't the AD or athletic department dispel the rumors? I mean, when fans think they are getting Donovan and then we end up with Archie, it kind of leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. I was listening to the radio and the host was saying former IU players were excited because even they thought Donovan was about to sign a contract. Like how did that rumor not get squashed?

ADs at any school don’t hold press conferences to dispel rumors related to people under contract let alone in another league. What would you even say? Beyond that. The question was never asked of Glass. Much like a lot of the stupidity in this thread he just has never responded to rumors. Why would he? No other ADs do it.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Just curious, but if Donovan was never contacted, why didn't the AD or athletic department dispel the rumors? I mean, when fans think they are getting Donovan and then we end up with Archie, it kind of leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. I was listening to the radio and the host was saying former IU players were excited because even they thought Donovan was about to sign a contract. Like how did that rumor not get squashed?

Because it's not the AD's job to dispel fan rumors.   This is very much a you problem.   You might be wise to either get on board with who we do have or go root for the Thunder and forget about Indiana University.  You seem impossible to please and difficult to accept logic or reality.  I also don't think you accept the role of a college athletic director, but WAY down the list is making disgruntled fans happy by taking care of minutiae that gets their panties in a wad.

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Just now, mdn82 said:


ADs at any school don’t hold press conferences to dispel rumors related to people under contract let alone in another league. What would you even say? Beyond that. The question was never asked of Glass.


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IU has people that monitor some of the boards, they could have leaked info that Donovan was never contacted. Just my opinion. They don't need to hold a press conference. 

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IU has people that monitor some of the boards, they could have leaked info that Donovan was never contacted. Just my opinion. They don't need to hold a press conference. 

Never have and never will. I know for a fact some of this stuff they just laugh at and wonder where it starts. This being one of them.


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Just curious, but if Donovan was never contacted, why didn't the AD or athletic department dispel the rumors? I mean, when fans think they are getting Donovan and then we end up with Archie, it kind of leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. I was listening to the radio and the host was saying former IU players were excited because even they thought Donovan was about to sign a contract. Like how did that rumor not get squashed?


I think it was more of people wanting the Donovan hire so much, they were going to believe any rumor out there and run with it. If it happens enough, it automatically becomes "fact" in their minds. I, for one, didn't have a bad taste in my mouth because of the Archie hire.

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1 minute ago, Old Friend said:

Because it's not the AD's job to dispel fan rumors.   This is very much a you problem.   You might be wise to either get on board with who we do have or go root for the Thunder and forget about Indiana University.  You seem impossible to please and difficult to accept logic or reality.  I also don't think you accept the role of a college athletic director, but WAY down the list is making disgruntled fans happy by taking care of minutiae that gets their panties in a wad.

I'm simply asking a question Old Friend. Something that has perplexed me for quite some time. I'm aware of how rumors start, but the fact no one with connections to the program came out and squashed it outright was bizarre to me.  Am I impossible to please? No. I'm very clear in my bias that I believe Fred Glass is not the brilliant man that you think he is, but rather one of the worst athletic directors in history. Is he good at capital improvements? Well it seems that same fans think he's doing the bare minimum and others think hes doing great. As I've posted about before; I firmly believe the way he looks at, analyzes, and problem solves issues with IU athletics is not in any way shape of form brilliant. Although past performance isn't always an indicator of future results, it appears that in the begining of the Archie and Allen years, we're set to continue past performance. 7 of 11 missed tournaments, no bowl wins, not a single winning football season. Basketball and Football both are a coin flip of are we better or worse than the year before. If Fred is athletic director for 10 more years and the basketball program missed the tournament 13 of 20 possible tournaments then will you admit you were wrong about Fred? Because I will admit I was wrong about Archie when he wins a championship, and I will admit I was wrong on Allen if we make a bowl, and I will finally admit that I was wrong about Fred.

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2 hours ago, mdn82 said:


Never have and never will. I know for a fact some of this stuff they just laugh at and wonder where it starts. This being one of them.


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Completely true. I worked for the Celtics PR Department in the early-to-mid 2000's when social media and fan sites/forums were really just starting out. I would monitor Celticsblog.com (which is a great site and I have a ton of respect for the guys who have built it into what it is) and literally just laugh at some of the posts/rumors in their forums by fans. I'd call co-workers over to read stuff and we would being laughing hysterically in the office. 

Crazy stuff that was being passed off as legit, sourced info, and the vast majority of it 100% wrong. I also can't ever remember a time that I read one of those crazy rumors and passed it on to my boss so that we could figure out a way to leak the correct info or dispel it. I'd pass it on to him to he could join in the laughing, but not for any strategic PR purposes. 

The only times anything would be passed on in a strategic PR way would be if there were legal or criminal rumors. Even then they were mostly garbage. 

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