Fred Glass Retiring

[mamasa 14,818]

1 hour ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

When you're broke and find a penny on the ground you are up 1000%! haha 

I'll take "Deflections" for $1000 Alex.  I answered a question (correctly) with my knowledge of IU athletics, because I am a fan of IU athletics, not just 2 sports.  

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

I'll take "Deflections" for $1000 Alex.  I answered a question (correctly) with my knowledge of IU athletics, because I am a fan of IU athletics, not just 2 sports.  

We all are. But when those sports suck, do we care? No. How many go watch the games? Not a lot. Are the tickets $5 and sit where you want? That alone tells you something of those. I’ve been to a lot of girls game over the last 5 years. The NIT run was awesome. But regular season game they were lucky to get a couple thousand there. I still want to go to a baseball game and soccer match. But Glass’ and basically every single AD’s job at a P5 school comes down to basketball and/or football depending on the situations. If men’s basketball becomes an annual Top 15 team again and the football team is only winning 3 games a year and the rest of the sports take a dive, Glass is keeping his job. It’s great when those sports are doing good, but people don’t bat an eye when they are bad.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,096]

I'll take "Deflections" for $1000 Alex.  I answered a question (correctly) with my knowledge of IU athletics, because I am a fan of IU athletics, not just 2 sports.  

I'm more a fan of Track and field than football.

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[Aaron 4,147]

14 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

We all are. But when those sports suck, do we care? No. How many go watch the games? Not a lot. Are the tickets $5 and sit where you want? That alone tells you something of those. I’ve been to a lot of girls game over the last 5 years. The NIT run was awesome. But regular season game they were lucky to get a couple thousand there. I still want to go to a baseball game and soccer match. But Glass’ and basically every single AD’s job at a P5 school comes down to basketball and/or football depending on the situations. If men’s basketball becomes an annual Top 15 team again and the football team is only winning 3 games a year and the rest of the sports take a dive, Glass is keeping his job. It’s great when those sports are doing good, but people don’t bat an eye when they are bad. 


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Some people do care about these sports as a lot of the Olympic Sports draw 1,500-3,000 a game so clearly those people care. Obviously Football and Basketball are the driver and those need to improve but some people do care about the Olympic Sports.

[Hoosierfan2017 19,882]

30 minutes ago, mamasa said:

The question wasn't "Which sports out of basketball, football, men's soccer and baseball are on the rise?"  These sports fall under "athletics", which happens to be in Glass's title, Director of Athletics.  Comprehension not your strong suit?

It's great that those teams seem to be doing well, and I think it's really cool that you provide us with a ton of updates on those under the radar IU sports. Glass is the Director of Athletics, but we can probably agree that he's ultimately going to be judged on how the men's basketball (and to a lesser extent) football teams do. If those two do well, everyone is happy. If those two do poorly, no one is happy, even if the other sports are doing well. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

Some people do care about these sports as a lot of the Olympic Sports draw 1,500-3,000 a game so clearly those people care. Obviously Football and Basketball are the driver and those need to improve but some people do care about the Olympic Sports.

For those involved they obviously care. But to the average fan and probably the majority of IU fans, they likely only watch it if they see a highlight on Twitter or FB.


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[mdn82 25,456]

It's great that those teams seem to be doing well, and I think it's really cool that you provide us with a ton of updates on those under the radar IU sports. Glass is the Director of Athletics, but we can probably agree that he's ultimately going to be judged on how the men's basketball (and to a lesser extent) football teams do. If those two do well, everyone is happy. If those two do poorly, no one is happy, even if the other sports are doing well. 

Let’s be completely real about this. There has never been one AD fired at IU for Football. You know what? There has never been an AD fired for the basketball teams record in my lifetime. Only massive changes or sanctions created change here. When will you guys understand the way you are looking at it isn’t how those in charge have looked at it? They fell into RMK. In your so called “money” sports. We have never been a UK, UNC, or Kansas when it comes to coaching searches in any sport.

 

 

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[mamasa 14,818]

42 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It's great that those teams seem to be doing well, and I think it's really cool that you provide us with a ton of updates on those under the radar IU sports. Glass is the Director of Athletics, but we can probably agree that he's ultimately going to be judged on how the men's basketball (and to a lesser extent) football teams do. If those two do well, everyone is happy. If those two do poorly, no one is happy, even if the other sports are doing well. 

Zero problems with this.  My original annoyance was that someone asked a legit question and I answered.  But, some can't just accept an answer since it doesn't help their narrative, so they react immaturely.  I appreciate your well-worded and topical response!

[mdn82 25,456]

I feel like the earth has tilted and changed completely in the last 12 or so years. The Greenspan convos were always centered around all he cared about was winning with no integrity. Wish we could do a compare and contrast.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,882]

6 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Let’s be completely real about this. There has never been one AD fired at IU for Football. You know what? There has never been an AD fired for the basketball teams record in my lifetime. Only massive changes or sanctions created change here. When will you guys understand the way you are looking at it isn’t how those in charge have looked at it? They fell into RMK. In your so called “money” sports. We have never been a UK, UNC, or Kansas when it comes to coaching searches in any sport.

 

 

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That's the problem you have when you're program is built by a coaching legend who spends decades at your school. Duke is going to be faced with that problem soon. You can't screw up the next hire. We screwed it up about as bad as you possibly can, and have been screwing it up ever since. Of course, that's not really Glass's fault. So, perhaps I am too harsh on Glass in that regard. The issues were set in motion before he was hired, and they've continued under his leadership. I would love nothing more than for Archie to be 'the guy'. He's done about everything right since he took the job, minus the on-court results. Hopefully we get that this year because he would be a great face of the program. 

[mdn82 25,456]

That's the problem you have when you're program is built by a coaching legend who spends decades at your school. Duke is going to be faced with that problem soon. You can't screw up the next hire. We screwed it up about as bad as you possibly can, and have been screwing it up ever since. Of course, that's not really Glass's fault. So, perhaps I am too harsh on Glass in that regard. The issues were set in motion before he was hired, and they've continued under his leadership. I would love nothing more than for Archie to be 'the guy'. He's done about everything right since he took the job, minus the on-court results. Hopefully we get that this year because he would be a great face of the program. 

For sure and I don’t want it to sound as if Glass is not without blame in this. Being AD has its roles and responsibilities. It’s just it has never been about what you guys want it to be. And it probably never will be. Will we luck out with Archie? I don’t know. But if we go through our hiring process again I think we will be in the same spot. As Indiana fans we know more than the next state. Then our hiring focus is circled around who would fit what we are trying to do as a university as opposed to who is the best damn coach that can win games. Two entirely different things and that’s something Glass highlighted with Archie was the checkboxes. You guys want one. Who will win us the most games? That just has never been IU and I am not saying that is right or wrong.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

11 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

You say do you a favor but red flags can be seen after two years. People like you are happy with just having Indiana kids committing and that is enough, even with minimal success. Miller is doing an okay job recruiting. Nothing that should be too shocking so far. It’s where he has put his emphasis. He’s gotten Romeo and TJD. He had no clue how to use Romeo so that really hurt outside of of his injury. He should be better with TJD with how his offense has worked the last two seasons. Leal is the likely Mr. Basketball but he shouldn’t be expected to do a ton his freshman season. You say Archie is one of the hottest young coaches in CBB, but after two seasons that is no longer the case. When he was at Dayton maybe. But there are two big red flags that will always keep Archie down. 1. His inability to coach an offense goes back to Dayton. His offensive philosophy is atrocious and his ability to even have it running correctly hasn’t happened outside of maybe 5 or so games. The Marquette game was probably the best offensive showing IU has had under Archie and it went downhill real quick afterwards. 2. His substitution decisions. They really didn’t make sense and last year they were almost insane. The most memorable for me was during the Nebraska game(which I attended) when at the end of the half he decided to put McRoberts and Fitzner on the floor. Indiana had actually worked it’s way back into the game and what happened on that very last play? The last play that literally every person I could hear say “that’s the worst substitution I’ve ever seen.” McRoberts got blown by and Fitzner was to slow to help and Nebraska was able to end the half with a dunk and momentum. Can Miller Fox those problems? Absolutely. He’s still pretty young. Is it likely? Not really after this many years of his coaching career. But I am hoping like crazy that I’m proven wrong.


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Listen.....and I'll be as kind as I can.   Don't make the mistake of assuming what I'm happy with.   You have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about and I have no interest in trying to convince you if you can't come up with anything but "fire so and so" and pretend you know more about coaching and using players than he does.    You either saw the late season progress a year ago or you didn't.   Manifested for me in the improvement of DeVonte Green, on whom I have been very hard. 

I choose to look beyond the reach of my low beam headlights and try to understand meaning of events.   He has recruited shooters, which he hasn't had.  It's kinda' tough to score if everyone can pack the lane on you.  Leaders, which this program has needed in droves for a decade.  Kids who will stay 4 years.  He's jettisoned the long, athletically gifted but basketball limited kids like Forrester and Moore.  He's very obviously growing, and yeah...he's young.   Defense got better.   Indiana managed to post a winning record despite many lost games due to injury, no depth in the front court, and no shooters.   Last season looked at through a different prism had more successes than you give credit for.   Was I happy with the end result?  Hell no.  But...I don't need to see what I want to see in year 3 "or else FIRE HIM!"    That's so....cheap and short sighted.   I said what I said about Mr. Basketball's because of what I think it'll mean on the floor.  Not for the simple fact.   Get out of the mental kiddie pool.

Don't drag me into any "people like me" category.  That's weak and elementary.  I'm talking on a different plane than you are.  Just truth.  On your plane which is narrow and shallow, it's easy to categorize "people like me."   But you're not looking at it the same way I am, so you have no idea what people like me will be happy with and if you really believe what you said about me, you have NO idea at all of my history.   Just be careful making stupid comments like that.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Like it or not, Fred Glass has elevated IUFB to a level of consistency only bested by the Bill Mallory era. He’s elevated the facilities to an unprecedented level.

 

Sure, it’s from an F to a C, but that’s a whole lot of improvement.

 

Even with Indiana basketball, it’s been so bad since RMK’s prime that Glass has us at a consistency we hadn’t seen in decades.

 

Again, D to a B, but more improvement.

 

It feels like many here want it all to click like magic again, and I don’t think many understand how broken our programs were and how much work it takes to fix it all. Meanwhile, they ignore the progress that’s been made because it’s not the final desired result.

 

Finally, a change in AD is just as contingent on making the right hire as a change in HC. There’s no guarantee Indiana’s BOT doesn’t botch that hire and ruin all the progress that’s been made.

 

 

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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Wow this is a depressing link. 2 of Indiana’s 11 postseason appearances in its history were under Glass. (11 since 1953 in the B1G to remove the misleading earlier years).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indiana_Hoosiers_football_seasons


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

In his first two years, Tom Allen is one win worse than Kevin Wilson’s two final and best years.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

5 hours ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I am really enjoying debating with you and that is not being sarcastic. 

Getting old and staying old is great and has been proven to be the most consistent model in winning big in the NCAA. I agree with you there. I will never argue that point with you. I also agree that Firing a coach every three years until one produces is a recipe for disaster. It would signal dysfunction to the NCAA at large and would alienate ourselves from top talent. 

What I think we're not seeing eye to eye on is the decision making process of Fred Glass. I strongly believe his decision making process should be a macro, top down approach, with the goal in mind. It would look like this; Win Banner 6 (goal) -> what do we need to do to get there -> do we have those things in place -> what do we need to bring or upgrade -> who is best suited to get us there -> look everywhere in the NCAA-> why are other coaches successful -> who is on my short list if we needed to make a change -> evaluate the Macro's at year end -> base any decision on MACRO factors... I believe Fred Glass makes decisions on micro factors like "Well Jordan Hulls had a broken wing that year" - a quote Fred actually said. Looking at specifics in a vacuum is a recipe for disaster at his position. Coaches should look at the Micro, not the AD. 

I'm not driving or forcing a narrative that Fred Glass is a bad AD while shoehorning everything he does into that narrative.He might be a great guy, good lawyer, friend, and family man. But what he is not is a competitive AD that knows how to make decisions at the Macro level to get us to where IU needs to go. I'm not calling for McRobbies head because the man is retiring in 2020-2021. We've already seen an early adopter in Brian Davidson running for BOT trying to usurp the status quo. That will only grow stronger and when McRobbie is gone hopefully the flood gates open, thus changing the status quo. 

Archie may or may not be the right guy to win Banner 6. I did a post a year ago or so about how many years it takes new coaches to win a championship. TLDR: if we don't think Archie can make it to a final four by year 5, we need to cut bait. If Archie turns out to be the best of the three available at the time of hire between Him, Chris Mack and Chris Holtmann, then I was wrong and I will apologize. But from what I've seen and some of the intrinsic things i'm judging him on, I don't think we got the best one of the three. I think that will be Chris Holtmann. Because of that, I believe my narrative that Glass has made poor decision after poor decision after poor decision, to be true unless proved otherwise. 

 

 

If you're concerned about the hiring process of Tom Allen, I don't disagree. I also don't know who we could have attracted having fired Wilson and the division we play in.   I also don't know that I'd argue too much about whether or not Allen had shown he deserved an opportunity.   He had to coach the Pinstripe Bowl...and the defense had improved a lot.   I know for sure others were contacted.   Glass may not have heard what he wanted to hear and just pulled the trigger to maintain continuity - which at that time and with back to back bowl appearances was more important that some credit.

There will always be something shinier than what you have.   I think Archie will be just fine.  Will he be better than Ohio State every year?   I doubt it.  Will Ohio State be better every year?  I doubt it.  Mack's a good coach and had about the same success in the A-10 as Archie had.   

Indiana beat Louisville a year ago, and was very close w a more experienced and deeper Ohio State team.   I don't see the disparity you do.

And to answer a question asked above by someone else :  the entirety of IU Althletics is improving.  Individual programs and the program as a whole are growing and improving.   No AD will ever lose his job because a football coach in his 3rd year has maintained where the program was.   I think a lot of you will be eating some raw crow before 2021.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,181]

If you're concerned about the hiring process of Tom Allen, I don't disagree. I also don't know who we could have attracted having fired Wilson and the division we play in.   I also don't know that I'd argue too much about whether or not Allen had shown he deserved an opportunity.   He had to coach the Pinstripe Bowl...and the defense had improved a lot.   I know for sure others were contacted.   Glass may not have heard what he wanted to hear and just pulled the trigger to maintain continuity - which at that time and with back to back bowl appearances was more important that some credit.
There will always be something shinier than what you have.   I think Archie will be just fine.  Will he be better than Ohio State every year?   I doubt it.  Will Ohio State be better every year?  I doubt it.  Mack's a good coach and had about the same success in the A-10 as Archie had.   
Indiana beat Louisville a year ago, and was very close w a more experienced and deeper Ohio State team.   I don't see the disparity you do.
And to answer a question asked above by someone else :  the entirety of IU Althletics is improving.  Individual programs and the program as a whole are growing and improving.   No AD will ever lose his job because a football coach in his 3rd year has maintained where the program was.   I think a lot of you will be eating some raw crow before 2021.

We hope to be eating crow by 2021, as of now that doesn’t look to be the case as we are projected to miss the tourney this coming season and possibly the season after depending on departures.


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[southernindianahoosier2 902]

If you're concerned about the hiring process of Tom Allen, I don't disagree. I also don't know who we could have attracted having fired Wilson and the division we play in.   I also don't know that I'd argue too much about whether or not Allen had shown he deserved an opportunity.   He had to coach the Pinstripe Bowl...and the defense had improved a lot.   I know for sure others were contacted.   Glass may not have heard what he wanted to hear and just pulled the trigger to maintain continuity - which at that time and with back to back bowl appearances was more important that some credit.
There will always be something shinier than what you have.   I think Archie will be just fine.  Will he be better than Ohio State every year?   I doubt it.  Will Ohio State be better every year?  I doubt it.  Mack's a good coach and had about the same success in the A-10 as Archie had.   
Indiana beat Louisville a year ago, and was very close w a more experienced and deeper Ohio State team.   I don't see the disparity you do.
And to answer a question asked above by someone else :  the entirety of IU Althletics is improving.  Individual programs and the program as a whole are growing and improving.   No AD will ever lose his job because a football coach in his 3rd year has maintained where the program was.   I think a lot of you will be eating some raw crow before 2021.

Again this is something board members would be easily capable of evaluating Archie If we all had inside knowledge of the inner workings of the program. Since we don’t, only time will tell who’s the best hire of the 3. At this point in time, our current coach sits in third position. It’s also quite possible that Hoidberg, who also was a candidate at the time of Archie’s hire is above Archie as well. Judging the hire based on Glass’ prior hiring decisions (including extensions) we will likely end up with the worst coach of the bunch. Again I could be totally wrong and we could be ranked next year and make the tourney, but as of today, it’s looking bad. I do think we’ll be better than the last three years, but we just as easily could show no improvement YOY.


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[mdn82 25,456]

 

Again this is something board members would be easily capable of evaluating Archie If we all had inside knowledge of the inner workings of the program. Since we don’t, only time will tell who’s the best hire of the 3. At this point in time, our current coach sits in third position. It’s also quite possible that Hoidberg, who also was a candidate at the time of Archie’s hire is above Archie as well. Judging the hire based on Glass’ prior hiring decisions (including extensions) we will likely end up with the worst coach of the bunch. Again I could be totally wrong and we could be ranked next year and make the tourney, but as of today, it’s looking bad. I do think we’ll be better than the last three years, but we just as easily could show no improvement YOY.

 

 

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Hoiberg was never a candidate for IU. He was fired from the Bulls a year and a half after Archie was hired.

 

 

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[Old Friend 8,389]

18 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

 

Again this is something board members would be easily capable of evaluating Archie If we all had inside knowledge of the inner workings of the program. Since we don’t, only time will tell who’s the best hire of the 3. At this point in time, our current coach sits in third position. It’s also quite possible that Hoidberg, who also was a candidate at the time of Archie’s hire is above Archie as well. Judging the hire based on Glass’ prior hiring decisions (including extensions) we will likely end up with the worst coach of the bunch. Again I could be totally wrong and we could be ranked next year and make the tourney, but as of today, it’s looking bad. I do think we’ll be better than the last three years, but we just as easily could show no improvement YOY.


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I really disagree that "it's looking bad."  I think that's way too dramatic and way too short sighted.   How exactly does Archie sit in the 3rd position?   Results?  Both Mack and Holtmann walked into more experienced and better balanced teams, and neither completely changed the system like Miller did.   Crean's teams couldn't guard.   Miller's system is largely based on defense.

Based on what is it "quite possible" Hoiberg is better???   What?  Are you really ready to jump off a building enough to worry about Nebraska?   The sky falling?   Hoiberg wasn't ever a candidate for IU.  Where are you getting your information?

Why are you assuming the worst and also that every shiny thing is better than what we have?   There is no evidence to that at all.   Glass has made perhaps ONE poor hiring decision, and I just laid out for you a reason why he made it.   You make it sound as though he has been a comedy of errors and that's just not accurate.   His hiring of Archie Miller can't come close to being evaluated yet, and objectively, I would say things there are FAR better than the picture you paint.  He's hired baseball, women's basketball, and other coaches who have developed programs at IU and/or improved them.  What "hiring decisions" do you disagree with....stepping back from the ledge and looking logically?  Other than Allen, and I think even someone as biased as you are can see the reason in it.

How exactly....seriously...is anything "looking bad???"   I couldn't disagree more unless you think Rome can be  built in a day and everything on which you're judging is based on results from basically year one of even a single of his recruits playing a minute at Indiana.   Did Phinsee's injury matter?  Did Morgan's?  Did Romeo's?   Good grief.....at least let it play out before you judge.

At the end of the day, I don't have any patience for fabricated or imagined negativity.    If it plays out that Allen and Archie need to go, they will.   As much as you're upset with Glass, you have to acknowledge he's let coaches go when it's been time to do so.  And Archie was largely applauded when he was hired.  Amazing to me how many turn on him, despite the realities of his teams.