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The ignorance and short-sighted nature of this statement is staggering.    How has he failed at his job?   Don't tell me what you wish his job would be or use football as the sole measuring stick.   The mob has spoken.  You want a winning football team; and the way you have defined "winning," you might actually HAVE one as we speak; but because it hasn't happened in the past or with names you wanted, you're complaining.   Have you looked at baseball?  Soccer?  Swimming?  Have you seen what's happening on the basketball floor?   What's starting to happen with volleyball and softball?   Doesn't know how to win??    Why don't you apply for the job, and tell people "I know how to WIN!" and see how far you get.    
Good Lord.   Step outside the low beams for just a second and think about your statement.  
What do you want the football team to be and what do you think it can be realistically?    My assumption is you're smart enough to know the ceiling (consistently, anyway)  in the Big Ten East is 4th, right?   So 8-4 or so is the high water mark; 5-7 wins a year should be the expected norm if you're even halfway reasonable.....    Where is it right now in your eyes?  What needs to change (this is all we're talking about, right?  Football?)?   What happens if Indiana finishes 7-5 or 6-6 and goes to a bowl this season?   
Do you understand the bell cow for Indiana University Sports Properties and Indiana University Athletics is men's basketball?  Do you know that IUSP is still a top 10 revenue producer in the country?  Do you know varsity club donations have broken their own revenue records 5 times under Fred Glass?  Seriously....if football goes to a bowl this season, what will you have left to complain about?   Nothing you're upset with will be true; and I'm really not sure any of it is NOW.

Outside of men’s basketball and football, the rest isn’t actually important to fans and boosters. Those are just sports that if they are good, you go “yay.” Men’s soccer is the best program at IU. Do people watch? Nope. Women’s basketball has started to become relatively decent. Do people watch it? Nope. There is a reason tickets to those games are $5. It took a 6 win season in men’s basketball to get a $5 seat... in the BALCONY. Which means, Glass’ success with hinder 100% on men’s basketball and football. Mainly men’s basketball where it has greatly struggled and not seen any signs of becoming not just a B1G powerhouse, but a national powerhouse. In football he hired a coach without even searching for a better one, which there were plenty. So his technical job might be about keeping every sport winning, but to keep his job, it will be 100% about men’s basketball and football winning. And if men’s basketball is winning, and I mean actually winning and competing with Duke, Kentucky, UNC and Kansas and becomes a top 10-15 team every single year under Archie or the next guy, then Glass’ job will be safe even if every other sports is complete garbage.


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3 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

No, we're not all bitching to b*tch. That's a pretty GD patronizing remark if you ask me. There's nothing wrong with wanting to win more than five games a year and thinking we settled on a coach with a mediocre resume when it seems as if we never even explored other options. I don't get how his resume was worthy of a look. He was a position coach at Mississippi and a college DC for two years -- only one at a Power 5 school. That spells B1G head coach? Really? And I think just about everyone realizes our schedule isn't easy. You're not privy that that opinion. That's not your secret. But other than Illinois, we don't beat teams on the other side of the conference, either. Let's face it, in basketball, we used to dominate the likes of Northwestern, Penn State and Wisconsin. Now when we meet those teams, it's almost a tossup -- and we're usually underdogs to Wisconsin. But in football, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State used to dominate us -- and still do. Regardless of what side of the conference we're on, we need to start beating those teams every now and then. Against Penn State, Michigan and Ohio State, we have one win in the past 30 years. That's ridiculous. 

You can take it however you want to take it.   Up to you.   None of you have answered the questions, so I'll try again.

1)  Who can Indiana go get?  Who's your horse?

2)  Would you rather have continuity or a carousel of coaches?  If continuity, see #1.  If carousel, what assurances do you have that we hit on every coach in here so we remain consistently good?

3)  Go back 50 years.  100 years.  Not much changes.   Do you acknowledge Indiana's ceiling in its own division on a consistent basis is 4th?  If so, refer again to #1.  If not, you're myopic and unreasonable.

4)  Do you recognize that Indiana may in fact have a 6-7 win team right NOW?   What will you complain about if we do?

5)  Do you see what's happening in the basketball program or not?  My comments to all of you have been "right now," what are you upset with?  I get the past.  But things are changing, and you can choose to see it or ignore it and keep b*tching for the sake of it.   

6)  I'm not privy to anything; but the schedule and reality of our situation seems to be something you choose to ignore in favor of....b*tching.  Indiana starts every season essentially 0-3.  They, Rutgers, and Maryland have the toughest climb in college sports.  No other league has divisions as unbalanced.  You can either accept or ignore that reality; and it's not my being privy, it's simply making a point you don't seem to get.  "Every now and then" is what you're after?   We beat Penn State a few years ago.  You got your wish.  If you basically start 0-3, and go undefeated in the rest of the games, you still finish 4th in the Big Ten East most of the time.  That's good for the Tax Slayer Bowl or the Music City Bowl.  Go see what coaches you can attract with that.  

Indiana is in the same division with 3 of the college football blue bloods; and there are about 10 of those programs.  Maybe not even that many.   All 3 of those programs are in Sagarin top 20 right now.  So is Michigan State, by the way.  So Indiana will play 4 Sagarin top 20 programs this year and every year this is true.   Know how many from the West are there in the top 20?  One.   The next from the west is #37.  Unbalanced divisions are a HUGE problem.  Just truth.

I know you think the sky is falling, but right now?  In Sagarin, which I think is a decent measuring stick; Indiana is ranked ahead of Tennessee, UCLA, Arkansas, Vanderbilt, BYU, Oregon State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Kansas, and Boston College.   It's just not as bad or dire as you make it out to be; and it IS as difficult for Indiana as I've said it is.   You can accept  that or deny it, but it's more than just a "tough schedule."  It's a crippling reality for the program, and the problems..as I have said all along are WAY above Fred Glass; which is the over-riding point.

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3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:


Outside of men’s basketball and football, the rest isn’t actually important to fans and boosters. Those are just sports that if they are good, you go “yay.” Men’s soccer is the best program at IU. Do people watch? Nope. Women’s basketball has started to become relatively decent. Do people watch it? Nope. There is a reason tickets to those games are $5. It took a 6 win season in men’s basketball to get a $5 seat... in the BALCONY. Which means, Glass’ success with hinder 100% on men’s basketball and football. Mainly men’s basketball where it has greatly struggled and not seen any signs of becoming not just a B1G powerhouse, but a national powerhouse. In football he hired a coach without even searching for a better one, which there were plenty. So his technical job might be about keeping every sport winning, but to keep his job, it will be 100% about men’s basketball and football winning. And if men’s basketball is winning, and I mean actually winning and competing with Duke, Kentucky, UNC and Kansas and becomes a top 10-15 team every single year under Archie or the next guy, then Glass’ job will be safe even if every other sports is complete garbage.


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Fred Glass' keeping his job has very little to do with football.  Don't kid yourself.  Your last statement is the true statement; and since Archie has played his recruits in just one season, he's going to get time; and anyone with eyes can see things are getting better over there.  I'm as excited for the basketball program as I've been since 2013.

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5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Fred Glass' keeping his job has very little to do with football.  Don't kid yourself.  Your last statement is the true statement; and since Archie has played his recruits in just one season, he's going to get time; and anyone with eyes can see things are getting better over there.  I'm as excited for the basketball program as I've been since 2013.

Pretty much every national service expects us to miss the tourney for 4 straight years. 3 under Archie and your saying it’s obvious things are getting better?

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16 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Pretty much every national service expects us to miss the tourney for 4 straight years. 3 under Archie and your saying it’s obvious things are getting better?

Your eyes and  or they don't.  You either saw what happened late last season or you didn't.  You see the recruits we're attracting or you don't.  You either understand that "3 years under Archie" will really be only 2 because not one player he recruited played even a minute for him in year one, and ALL of the players who did were recruited to play in a completely different system.  You either acknowledge the roster turnover and current structure or you don't.

Am I supposed to care what "experts" say?  Or am I supposed to think for myself, look at the players, the changes, and the coaches and make up my own mind?   I think I'll go for the latter and wait to be proven right.  You can stay negative if you want to.   You know me well enough to know I'm not exactly a myopic pollyanna; so I'll firmly stand behind this and take any bullets that come my way if I'm wrong; but I expect you to do the same.

By the way, the same "experts" ranked Victor Oladipo around #150 in his high school class.  Extrapolate from that what you will.   

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Pretty much every national service expects us to miss the tourney for 4 straight years. 3 under Archie and your saying it’s obvious things are getting better?

People only think it is getting better because Indiana kids are committing. The wins don’t seem to matter as long as it’s Indiana kids playing. It’s an odd concept.


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Oh wow I wonder if the reason I’m not getting any job offers is because I tell them I’m always looking for something and will leave ASAP 

Probably not getting a job if you approach complex situation as simply as this or it could be because in every debate or discussion you enter you seem to apply some form of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy to counter opinions other than your own.

It’s not a very intelligent nor effective form of argument. Good luck!


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College football isn't most businesses. If a coach uses IU as a spring board, who cares. That would mean the football program has been having success. If you limit your search to guys who would want to stay at IU then you're eliminating about every hot rising star in the business from the jump. That's how you end up with Tom Allen.
I'd much rather have a coach everyone wants than a coach who no one wants. Right now we have the latter. The way Coach Allen conducts himself is embarrassing. All teams recruiting against us will have to do is show them that pregame video from last Saturday and ask "do you really want to go play for that doofus?" 

They absolutely are. Theses are multi-million dollar executive hires.

If you haven’t noticed, it takes time to build a football program and recruit players that fit your schemes.

I don’t know how that eliminates “every hot rising coach”. That’s just wrong.

It doesn’t have to be someone who says they’re a lifer. But you go out and hire a guy who you don’t think is going to jump for the Michigan job the second it opens. That’s not the kind of person you want leading your program.

Tom Allen was 1) the easy hire and 2) may be a great hire or a terrible one. I will be interested to see how the rest of this season goes.

However, if Penix is out for the season, I have no reason to believe this year will be any different than the past decade. Maybe we squeak into 6 wins somehow, maybe not.


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4 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:


Probably not getting a job if you approach complex situation as simply as this or it could be because in every debate or discussion you enter you seem to apply some form of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy to counter opinions other than your own.

It’s not a very intelligent nor effective form of argument. Good luck!


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Lol unlike Drax a lot goes over your head.  

I’d throw some petty insults like you but I think your behavior towards people does more than I could ever do.  

You seem like an unhappy person. Seems like the only possibility for attacking somebody for making an inoffensive joke.  It’s probably why you attack people for having a different opinion. 

Hopefully you don’t stay unhappy but if that’s how you approach life I very seriously doubt it. 

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7 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Your eyes and  or they don't.  You either saw what happened late last season or you didn't.  You see the recruits we're attracting or you don't.  You either understand that "3 years under Archie" will really be only 2 because not one player he recruited played even a minute for him in year one, and ALL of the players who did were recruited to play in a completely different system.  You either acknowledge the roster turnover and current structure or you don't.

Am I supposed to care what "experts" say?  Or am I supposed to think for myself, look at the players, the changes, and the coaches and make up my own mind?   I think I'll go for the latter and wait to be proven right.  You can stay negative if you want to.   You know me well enough to know I'm not exactly a myopic pollyanna; so I'll firmly stand behind this and take any bullets that come my way if I'm wrong; but I expect you to do the same.

By the way, the same "experts" ranked Victor Oladipo around #150 in his high school class.  Extrapolate from that what you will.   

Lol. It’s obvious to see because can see it?  That’s pretty arrogant. 

So experts were wrong about one recruit 6 years ago means they should be dismissed on everything that you disagree with them on?   

Things may very well be getting better but don’t act like it’s plain to see. The team just lost the two best players from an NIT and are one concussion away from no PG. Could the team be better, sure it’s possible. But it’s most not certainly obvious. And it’s probably not even likely. 

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8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

The ignorance and short-sighted nature of this statement is staggering.    How has he failed at his job?   Don't tell me what you wish his job would be or use football as the sole measuring stick.   The mob has spoken.  You want a winning football team; and the way you have defined "winning," you might actually HAVE one as we speak; but because it hasn't happened in the past or with names you wanted, you're complaining.   Have you looked at baseball?  Soccer?  Swimming?  Have you seen what's happening on the basketball floor?   What's starting to happen with volleyball and softball?   Doesn't know how to win??    Why don't you apply for the job, and tell people "I know how to WIN!" and see how far you get.    

Good Lord.   Step outside the low beams for just a second and think about your statement.  

What do you want the football team to be and what do you think it can be realistically?    My assumption is you're smart enough to know the ceiling (consistently, anyway)  in the Big Ten East is 4th, right?   So 8-4 or so is the high water mark; 5-7 wins a year should be the expected norm if you're even halfway reasonable.....    Where is it right now in your eyes?  What needs to change (this is all we're talking about, right?  Football?)?   What happens if Indiana finishes 7-5 or 6-6 and goes to a bowl this season?   

Do you understand the bell cow for Indiana University Sports Properties and Indiana University Athletics is men's basketball?  Do you know that IUSP is still a top 10 revenue producer in the country?  Do you know varsity club donations have broken their own revenue records 5 times under Fred Glass?  Seriously....if football goes to a bowl this season, what will you have left to complain about?   Nothing you're upset with will be true; and I'm really not sure any of it is NOW.

Old friend, do you know Fred Glass personally? I don't ask that snarkily. I just don't understand why you feel like you have to constantly defend the guy. Glass has been the AD for 11 seasons. The football team has had 0 winning seasons during that time, and the basketball team has missed the tournament in 7 of the 11 seasons. We've missed the tournament three straight years and are predicted to miss again this year. In what world is that anything except for a failure? I don't have to tell you what Duke or Kentucky would do to their AD if their basketball teams missed the tournament 7 times in 11 years. They wouldn't let him or her keep their job because the swimming team was having success  

You ask if I've seen what has happened on the basketball floor.. Yeah, I have. It's been terrible. They lost 12 games in a 13 game stretch last year with a lottery pick on the team. They lost to Rutgers and got blown out by Nebraska at home. You can call my statements ignorant if you'd like, but the proof is in the pudding. We are a below average football team and an average basketball team. IU football is IU football, but there's no excuse for IU basketball being an average program. 

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5 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:


They absolutely are. Theses are multi-million dollar executive hires.

If you haven’t noticed, it takes time to build a football program and recruit players that fit your schemes.

I don’t know how that eliminates “every hot rising coach”. That’s just wrong.

It doesn’t have to be someone who says they’re a lifer. But you go out and hire a guy who you don’t think is going to jump for the Michigan job the second it opens. That’s not the kind of person you want leading your program.

Tom Allen was 1) the easy hire and 2) may be a great hire or a terrible one. I will be interested to see how the rest of this season goes.

However, if Penix is out for the season, I have no reason to believe this year will be any different than the past decade. Maybe we squeak into 6 wins somehow, maybe not.


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But how many times has IU had a coach come to IU and then leave us shortly after for a better program? I understand why it's a concern people have, but it seems like it has happened very rarely. And you never know. Sometimes you might hire a guy who sticks around even though everyone expects him to leave. 

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8 hours ago, Old Friend said:

  But things are changing, and you can choose to see it or ignore it and keep b*tching for the sake of it.   

I know you think the sky is falling, but right now?  In Sagarin, which I think is a decent measuring stick; Indiana is ranked ahead of Tennessee, UCLA, Arkansas, Vanderbilt, BYU, Oregon State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Kansas, and Boston College.   It's just not as bad or dire as you make it out to be; and it IS as difficult for Indiana as I've said it is.   You can accept  that or deny it, but it's more than just a "tough schedule."  It's a crippling reality for the program, and the problems..as I have said all along are WAY above Fred Glass; which is the over-riding point.

1. Why is it that whenever someone complains about something you are so eager to defend, we're bitching for the sake of it. I already said, nobody is bitching for the sake of it. We're all IU fans, have a vested interested in the athletic programs and are not bitching for the sake of it. 

2. You have no idea if I think the sky is falling or not. If that were the case, they sky has been falling pretty much ever since Mallory left. 

This conversation is over. Your response -- whether it's about Dakich or this -- always is the same:  "I'm right. You're wrong. And you cannot disagree with me, or I will browbeat you until you change your mind." 

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If those were the ONLY qualifications....yes.   I'll ask you the same questions :  given the inarguable limitations of the IU job, who can we go get?  Would you rather have a turnstile of coaches or continuity?   If the latter, who's going to come here and stay here given the current division alignment?

No way for me to know, that’s what a coaching search and many interviews is for. Coaching vacancies are a tough time but also a good thing from time to time to get test the waters and shake some things up.

I hear you regarding the divisional alignment, I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as you do. No coach we hire is going to be expected to come in and go 11-1 and win the BigTen right away but we need to compete with those schools.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect a bowl every year and have occasional years where we challenge the big 3 for the conference. If you consistently hover around the 7-5 mark each year and you have a seasoned team every 3 or 4 years go up against a young, perhaps down team from the big 3 we should be able to pull off wins here and there.

No reason to ever go 0-24 against OSU and no reason to get beat 51-10.

We can do better and Glass didn’t even turn over any stones to try


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Lol. It’s obvious to see because can see it?  That’s pretty arrogant. 
So experts were wrong about one recruit 6 years ago means they should be dismissed on everything that you disagree with them on?   
Things may very well be getting better but don’t act like it’s plain to see. The team just lost the two best players from an NIT and are one concussion away from no PG. Could the team be better, sure it’s possible. But it’s most not certainly obvious. And it’s probably not even likely. 

For some it is only about recruiting. And by that I mean, you only have to recruit Indiana kids and you can go 15-15 every year. I’ve had people on Twitter tell me that graduating kids and getting those 4 year kids is more important than winning. The next freshmen class coming in isn’t going to be setting the world on fire to begin with. It’ll likely take each of them at least a year to get going considering their talent level. But it is a weird mindset from so many fans that things are automatically better and that IU will start competing at the national level in the Top 10 because some Indiana kids are committing. The 2020 class was weak in Indiana as is. Leal is the likely Mr. Basketball and is ranked 99th in the 247Sports composite. That doesn’t mean he won’t be a good college player, Hulls was ranked 139th so. But Indiana wasn’t good just because it got Hulls. That team became what it was because of a Top 10 recruit and Indiana Mr. Basketball named Cody Zeller. Many think rankings don’t matter, but the majority of the time, they are correct.


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On 9/11/2019 at 1:43 PM, Old Friend said:

Florida State spends the 2nd most money on football in the NCAA.   They are 1-1, having just been to overtime w UL Monroe.  They were 5-7 last season.  Money ensures nothing.

Every school in the top 30 save Michigan can be considered first a "football school."   Indiana will never be a "football school."   There's only so much money, boys.  Indiana has spent it's money on the basketball program; and while I get it hasn't yet paid off, I'd encourage people to take a true and objective look across the parking lot.

 

Florida State is putting themselves in  a position to be successful by spending top $. It may not be with their current coach, but seeing that they are ready and willing to open the check book is huge. I don't see why a top coach wouldn't go there. Conversely if they stopped spending money, the ability to attract top talent at the coaching level diminishes.

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15 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

There are plenty of problems with the two money makers at the moment and I wouldn’t say it is all on Glass but that he does have to take some responsibility for it because of his position. 

Fred has been the biggest decision maker on a Macro Level for the last 10 years. Any year to year fluctuations absolutely can be blamed on the coaches, but the Macro state of the programs over the last 10 years I would say are 100% on FG. 

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1 hour ago, LamarCheeks said:

1. Why is it that whenever someone complains about something you are so eager to defend, we're bitching for the sake of it. I already said, nobody is bitching for the sake of it. We're all IU fans, have a vested interested in the athletic programs and are not bitching for the sake of it. 

2. You have no idea if I think the sky is falling or not. If that were the case, they sky has been falling pretty much ever since Mallory left. 

This conversation is over. Your response -- whether it's about Dakich or this -- always is the same:  "I'm right. You're wrong. And you cannot disagree with me, or I will browbeat you until you change your mind." 

It's really odd to me that he believes we're just "b******* for the sake of b*******". Fred has been here for 11 years. The football team has 0 winning seasons and the basketball team had missed the tournament 7 times in 11 years. That's a lot to b****, and fans of any other serious college program would be doing the exact same thing. We stink. 

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